Do we have a challenge ahead of us to avoid becoming Hearing?

[shushugah]

That is where you are making your mistake. It is indeed a social phenomena. You have simply not had the life experience to see the truth of the matter. It is wonderful that you have had such a supportive family. But once you get out into the real world, you will discover that real life does not function in the same way as your family system does.

I have not attacked you in the least. I have disagreed with you, and I have pointed out errors in your thinking. But I have not attacked you in any way,shape, or form. Nor have I employed any cheap tactics. And I did not distort any facts. Perhaps you should go back and re-read. Once you have done that, please indicate any posts I have made where I have distorted concrete facts, and please quote me directly. The same with any post you consider to be an attack or a cheap tactic.

every single one of your distortions of what I said, are called out by GrendelQ quite clearly, I will post it a 2nd time, or the third time it's being posted now, when it says him, it is referring to shushugah.

Originally Posted by shushugah
You have yet to respond to ANY of these points, so please respond to them now, I am seriously interested in your response to these points, because you claim to be educating me, but I still don't quite understand what. You claim you are not bashing me, yet you told me my view is insignificant, yet other CI user's views are significant?



Originally Posted by DeafCaroline
GrendelQ - Shushugah was saying based on his own experience, he doesn't see why Deaf people feel oppressed and that surely this is not common. He's using his own experience to invalidate others' views.
Take a look as his posts: he was answering Messymama and Jiro who both posed scenarios of what they imagined his upbringing might have included and described it in very oppressive terms.

Jiro said to him:
Quote:
But you can try to imagine it right now - an alternative dimension. Imagine your parents believing that you are a "defective product" because you're deaf and that you need CI to hear. Imagine your parents being embarrassed to show you around to people they know. Imagine your parents trying to communicate with you the way they want... not your way and getting frustrated all the time. and the worst part? imagine your parents always doubting you and not believing in you because you're a disabled boy and they think you're incapable of living an independent lifestyle - no driving, no walking by yourself, no hanging out with friends, etc. unless it's supervised.
To which he responds:
Quote:
Errr, my parents are anything but like that. I will agree such views are very shrewd and narrow minded, however they are not the popular opinion either.
And to Messy Mama, who asks:
Quote:
Shushugah, are you born deaf? How were you educated? Sing language ....?
I know kids that were tied in a high chair to do speech therapy, the therapist repeating sounds with her mouth covered... tongue depressor to learn to pronounce sounds (you should still find some interesting videos on youtube, try "logopedia"). Hours of that, starting very very young, too. Kids that have 2 hours a day of speech therapy at home, by their mother. All mainstreamed, of course...
If that's not oppression, I don't know what it is... And yes, many deaf adults say that's right, because they were grown up the same way and they're happy. Strange coincidence, abused children often say exactly the same thing when they grow up...
S. acknowledges that others have been oppressed, but insists that he has experienced otherwise. And in the next sentence, says: "I am completely cool with you not wanting to teach oral speech to your kids, that is your choice, lifestyle decision and opinion on the best way to raise a deaf student. "

And then again, he says : "I can only speak for my parents, not yours or most others really"

I really don't see how any of this invalidates someone else's experience. In fact, I see him as being very thoughtful of the range of experiences.
Like

I will argue with anyone of any age, particularly when I am clearly not alone, and the people who agree with me are well over double my age. As for the argument that I have not lived life, that is true, however elderly people both related to me, and close family friends have lived life, and my fortunate experiences are echoed with theirs as well.

Jilio, please respond to what GrendelQ points out, since those are major distortions of what I said, as it's quite clear I left my condolences and sympathy for those who did not share my experience, and you attempts to discredit every connection I have to the Deaf community, whether it's my ASL, Political organizations. It is a shame I have to call off on indisputable wrongs on a theoretically wise and elderly member of my community.

 

[jillio]

every single one of your distortions of what I said, are called out by GrendelQ quite clearly, I will post it a 2nd time, or the third time it's being posted now, when it says him, it is referring to shushugah.



I will argue with anyone of any age, particularly when I am clearly not alone, and the people who agree with me are well over double my age. As for the argument that I have not lived life, that is true, however elderly people both related to me, and close family friends have lived life, and my fortunate experiences are echoed with theirs as well.

Jilio, please respond to what GrendelQ points out, since those are major distortions of what I said, as it's quite clear I left my condolences and sympathy for those who did not share my experience, and you attempts to discredit every connection I have to the Deaf community, whether it's my ASL, Political organizations. It is a shame I have to call off on indisputable wrongs on a theoretically wise and elderly member of my community.

You still have not quoted me in any way that shows that I have distorted anything. You will have to quote me, not another poster's interpretation.

You, yourself have demonstrated that you have no connection to the Deaf community, but rather, your connection is to the deaf community. You don't seem to understand the difference.

 

[jillio]

me?

Why would you refer to yourself in the 3rd person?

 

[GrendelQ]

I don't know what Grendel's problem is today, but she is just being a twit. She is what another poster called a "Jillist" today. So childish.

"Jillist"? Because it's all about you, hmmm? That's right.

You made a point of telling someone to check his ego a few moments ago. You might want to show him where you place yours.

Honestly, name-calling and a giggle? Wow. That's just biting.

 

[jillio]

"Jillist"? Because it's all about you, hmmm? That's right.

You made a point of telling someone to check his ego a few moments ago. You might want to show him where you place yours.

Honestly, name-calling and a giggle? Wow. That's just biting.

Where did I name call. And yes, a "Jillist" and not because it is all about me, but because I refuse to allow you to make it all about you.

BTW, I am not the only one that sees it.

 

[GrendelQ]

Where did I name call. And yes, a "Jillist" and not because it is all about me, but because I refuse to allow you to make it all about you.

BTW, I am not the only one that sees it.

That would be right here.

I don't know what Grendel's problem is today, but she is just being a twit. She is what another poster called a "Jillist" today. So childish.

 

[Grummer]

shushugah, you are like a sleeping volcano, just becareful with your emotions for life hasnt prepared you for that, yet. you have a mountain of English writing abilty (hence the volcano's slopes) but inside it's burbling with molten experiential potential not yet released, dont explode leaving a massive ash cloud of confusion, instead dribble out larhar that would push out boundarys of thorns at the bottom of the your towering cone, then you can clear your way out of the smothering of gorse bushes to meet the great forest of knowledge that the Deaf world can offer.

 

[jillio]

You are saying my view does not matter, can I interpret this some other way?

That is not what I am saying at all. Others see it. You just don't.

 

[jillio]

That would be right here.

Said you were "being a twit." That is a comment on your behavior. Had I been namecalling, I would have said, "Grendel is a twit." Shall we discuss fluent use of the language some more?

 

[Grummer]

Said you were "being a twit." That is a comment on your behavior. Had I been namecalling, I would have said, "Grendel is a twit." Shall we discuss fluent use of the language some more?

indeed, there is a difference...

 

[GrendelQ]

I don't know what Grendel's problem is today, but she is just being a twit. She is what another poster called a "Jillist" today. So childish.

Said you were "being a twit." That is a comment on your behavior. Had I been namecalling, I would have said, "Grendel is a twit." Shall we discuss fluent use of the language some more?

That's ok, I think you'll pick it up after a bit. Why don't you go busy yourself with something constructive, like taking a quick nap and then backing up the nasty accusations you made in the other thread. It must be so very taxing to come up with oddball names to lob at me, such as "Jillist" (your ego is showing, just tuck that in there) and twit.

 

[jillio]

That's ok, I think you'll pick it up after a bit. Why don't you go busy yourself with something constructive, like taking a quick nap and then backing up the nasty accusations you made in the other thread. It must be so very taxing to come up with oddball names to lob at me, such as "Jillist" (your ego is showing, just tuck that in there) and twit.

I am busy with something else, as I have already explained to you.

You appear to be the one not picking up on it.:roll:

This post would confirm that another posters humorous use of the made up term "Jillist" would certainly apply to you. You really are having a bad day, aren't you? Now, how about stop trying to make it all about your status as a victim around here and vent your distaste for me and contribute to the topic?

 

[jillio]

Grummer, your previously informative and intellectually stimulating thread has been destroyed by trolls. What a shame. Trolls are such unhappy people that the have to project their misery on everyone else.

 

[Berry]

DS, are you serious in saying that "an oral deaf person is not part of the Deaf community"?

Being part of the Deaf Community hinges on one important decision and one alone. Acceptance. If a person is not accepted they are not part of the Deaf Community no matter what their qualifications are.

One of the requirements of the Deaf Community is participation. In the hearing world someone who constantly comes to the party empty handed, drinks the best beer, smokes other people's cigarettes, and eats their fill will be talked about behind their back. The Deaf Community will make it somewhat more direct. "You are not one of us."

On the other hand not all Deaf Communities are exactly alike. Some would not care if he has CI's and hears perfectly if he has the right attitude. But other groups might consider him hearing, because he hears, and some would consider him a traitor.

So yes, a person can be born deaf, use ASL, and still not be part of the Deaf Community.

Some of the things shushugah has stated here would not be tolerated in some places.

 

[Berry]

Exactly, to you and to many others it was oppressive. And no one has the right to tell you that it wasn't. That was the point I was making that keeps getting twisted. For what purpose, other than being argumentative, I can't imagine.

Perhaps she is afraid her child, who shares some similarities with shushugah, will be rejected by the Deaf Community when she is older.

 

[jillio]

Being part of the Deaf Community hinges on one important decision and one alone. Acceptance. If a person is not accepted they are not part of the Deaf Community no matter what their qualifications are.

One of the requirements of the Deaf Community is participation. In the hearing world someone who constantly comes to the party empty handed, drinks the best beer, smokes other people's cigarettes, and eats their fill will be talked about behind their back. The Deaf Community will make it somewhat more direct. "You are not one of us."

On the other hand not all Deaf Communities are exactly alike. Some would not care if he has CI's and hears perfectly if he has the right attitude. But other groups might consider him hearing, because he hears, and some would consider him a traitor.

So yes, a person can be born deaf, use ASL, and still not be part of the Deaf Community.

Some of the things shushugah has stated here would not be tolerated in some places.

Bingo. And it is also a fact that a factor in culture is shared language. People seem to ignore this, and focus on deafness only. Deafness as a criterion is appropriate to membership in the deaf community, but not in Deaf Culture.

Agreed regarding accetability. If we are thought of a harsh, someone is in for a rude awakening.

 

[jillio]

Perhaps she is afraid her child, who shares some similarities with shushugah, will be rejected by the Deaf Community when she is older.

This is quite possible.

 

[Bottesini]

Perhaps she is afraid her child, who shares some similarities with shushugah, will be rejected by the Deaf Community when she is older.

This is quite possible.

I don't think so. Her child is already with a group of people her age and same life circumstances. The will be a big part of the future Deaf community.

 

[jillio]

I don't think so. Her child is already with a group of people her age and same life circumstances. The will be a big part of the future Deaf community.

It is likely, but I have seen parents before do a complete turn around with the ASL and the Deaf Culture, and decide to go oral only. So I see it as possible.

 

[sallylou]

The real test will come when the daughter wants to marry. I've know parents of HOH daughters who have tried to keep them from marrying Deaf/HOH men.