Do we have a challenge ahead of us to avoid becoming Hearing?

shushugah said:
If you really want to assert your claim is childish, perhaps address any of the points she made, defending me in what was a flame attack for no reason.

I honestly fail to see how I even suggested nullifying other people's opinions here, and yet you tell me my opinion is insignificant.

Seeing you didn't respond to any of GrendelQ's serious posts, I am not sure what else GrendelQ is supposed to do, since it's clear you will ignore a good comment when you see one, and instead turn this into a name calling thread. I will not partake in that.
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That is the problem. You don't see it.

I never ignore a good comment.
 
DeafCaroline said:
shushuga - ok, you view your deafness as a limitation, not the hearing world's reaction to it. that's fine. there are many many deaf people here with CIs, in fact, some of them are responding to you. What makes you think we have little exposure to them here?
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I was just going to ask if he realized he was talking to some deaf CI users.:lol:
 
DeafCaroline said:
shushuga - ok, you view your deafness as a limitation, not the hearing world's reaction to it. that's fine. there are many many deaf people here with CIs, in fact, some of them are responding to you. What makes you think we have little exposure to them here?
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I could be wrong, but from many of these posters it seems a large majority of people here, with CI's were oppressed and I don't deny their plights. I only hope to bring in perspective, that I can be a CI user and not a victim of a sick audist world. I hope to show that, there DO exist people who have CI's and aren't going through suffering or being victims of greater society.
 
shushugah said:
I could be wrong, but from many of these posters it seems a large majority of people here, with CI's were oppressed and I don't deny their plights. I only hope to bring in perspective, that I can be a CI user and not a victim of a sick audist world. I hope to show that, there DO exist people who have CI's and aren't going through suffering or being victims of greater society.
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Well, you seem to be suffering quite a bit to prove that wrong.
 
Banjo said:
Well, you seem to be suffering quite a bit to prove that wrong.
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Exactly. I see that a bit of insight and education is needed here. He is still wearing those, "It could never happen to me!" glasses that are so typcial of all adolescents. It is developmental.
 
jillio said:
That is the problem. You don't see it.

I never ignore a good comment.
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You have yet to respond to ANY of these points, so please respond to them now, I am seriously interested in your response to these points, because you claim to be educating me, but I still don't quite understand what. You claim you are not bashing me, yet you told me my view is insignificant, yet other CI user's views are significant?



Originally Posted by DeafCaroline
GrendelQ - Shushugah was saying based on his own experience, he doesn't see why Deaf people feel oppressed and that surely this is not common. He's using his own experience to invalidate others' views.
Take a look as his posts: he was answering Messymama and Jiro who both posed scenarios of what they imagined his upbringing might have included and described it in very oppressive terms.

Jiro said to him:
Quote:
But you can try to imagine it right now - an alternative dimension. Imagine your parents believing that you are a "defective product" because you're deaf and that you need CI to hear. Imagine your parents being embarrassed to show you around to people they know. Imagine your parents trying to communicate with you the way they want... not your way and getting frustrated all the time. and the worst part? imagine your parents always doubting you and not believing in you because you're a disabled boy and they think you're incapable of living an independent lifestyle - no driving, no walking by yourself, no hanging out with friends, etc. unless it's supervised.
To which he responds:
Quote:
Errr, my parents are anything but like that. I will agree such views are very shrewd and narrow minded, however they are not the popular opinion either.
And to Messy Mama, who asks:
Quote:
Shushugah, are you born deaf? How were you educated? Sing language ....?
I know kids that were tied in a high chair to do speech therapy, the therapist repeating sounds with her mouth covered... tongue depressor to learn to pronounce sounds (you should still find some interesting videos on youtube, try "logopedia"). Hours of that, starting very very young, too. Kids that have 2 hours a day of speech therapy at home, by their mother. All mainstreamed, of course...
If that's not oppression, I don't know what it is... And yes, many deaf adults say that's right, because they were grown up the same way and they're happy. Strange coincidence, abused children often say exactly the same thing when they grow up...
S. acknowledges that others have been oppressed, but insists that he has experienced otherwise. And in the next sentence, says: "I am completely cool with you not wanting to teach oral speech to your kids, that is your choice, lifestyle decision and opinion on the best way to raise a deaf student. "

And then again, he says : "I can only speak for my parents, not yours or most others really"

I really don't see how any of this invalidates someone else's experience. In fact, I see him as being very thoughtful of the range of experiences.
Like
 
Banjo said:
Well, you seem to be suffering quite a bit to prove that wrong.
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I am certainly suffering here, of all ironies where many posters here, seem to have difficult time accepting me. But since the hearies are the discriminators here (it seems Jilio is one of them, based on her outlandish treatment of me, post after post), I will keep my mouth shut, since I bask in the wonderful utopian world that many posters in this thread "welcome" me in. Telling me, I am insignificant, and that my efforts are not going far enough. It's no wonder other CI users that are well adjusted in both worlds, will prefer the hearing world, where their deafness is ignored and not such an issue like it becomes here.

I look forward to the day, when Deaf people can accept all deaf people. I am very willing to integrate into this community, and respect your lifestyles and preferences, but the least I need, is to not be bashed for merely living my life choices, none of which have harmed anyone.
 
Shushuga - welcome to AD - we're a bunch of passionate folks here.

And you are already getting sucked in. A few posts ago, you said you will not partake any further and yet here you are, still partaking, you've been officially initiated into AD!

Honestly, I'm glad you didn't suffer growing up and that's fabulous. Sounds like you have a very supportive family and a great school life. Really that's great and we don't mean to belittle any of that. What we were responding to was your implication that deaf people didn't really suffer if they didn't go to death camps like the Jews. Don't forget, you did say that and that kinda started a lot of reactive responses. You DID invalidate the Deaf's misery by making such a statement.

Anyway...hang out, live and learn and don't take anything too personally. There will always be posters that will say things that really pisses you off but eh, here on AD, as in real life, that's the way the cookie crumbles. you can choose to engage in the debate or not. I am learning myself that I don't have to argue with everyone, especially those whose problems are not deafness but listening.
 
shushugah said:
You have yet to respond to ANY of these points, so please respond to them now, I am seriously interested in your response to these points, because you claim to be educating me, but I still don't quite understand what. You claim you are not bashing me, yet you told me my view is insignificant, yet other CI user's views are significant?



Originally Posted by DeafCaroline
GrendelQ - Shushugah was saying based on his own experience, he doesn't see why Deaf people feel oppressed and that surely this is not common. He's using his own experience to invalidate others' views.
Take a look as his posts: he was answering Messymama and Jiro who both posed scenarios of what they imagined his upbringing might have included and described it in very oppressive terms.

Jiro said to him:
Quote:
But you can try to imagine it right now - an alternative dimension. Imagine your parents believing that you are a "defective product" because you're deaf and that you need CI to hear. Imagine your parents being embarrassed to show you around to people they know. Imagine your parents trying to communicate with you the way they want... not your way and getting frustrated all the time. and the worst part? imagine your parents always doubting you and not believing in you because you're a disabled boy and they think you're incapable of living an independent lifestyle - no driving, no walking by yourself, no hanging out with friends, etc. unless it's supervised.
To which he responds:
Quote:
Errr, my parents are anything but like that. I will agree such views are very shrewd and narrow minded, however they are not the popular opinion either.
And to Messy Mama, who asks:
Quote:
Shushugah, are you born deaf? How were you educated? Sing language ....?
I know kids that were tied in a high chair to do speech therapy, the therapist repeating sounds with her mouth covered... tongue depressor to learn to pronounce sounds (you should still find some interesting videos on youtube, try "logopedia"). Hours of that, starting very very young, too. Kids that have 2 hours a day of speech therapy at home, by their mother. All mainstreamed, of course...
If that's not oppression, I don't know what it is... And yes, many deaf adults say that's right, because they were grown up the same way and they're happy. Strange coincidence, abused children often say exactly the same thing when they grow up...
S. acknowledges that others have been oppressed, but insists that he has experienced otherwise. And in the next sentence, says: "I am completely cool with you not wanting to teach oral speech to your kids, that is your choice, lifestyle decision and opinion on the best way to raise a deaf student. "

And then again, he says : "I can only speak for my parents, not yours or most others really"

I really don't see how any of this invalidates someone else's experience. In fact, I see him as being very thoughtful of the range of experiences.
Like
Click to expand...

Who is "him"?
 
shushugah said:
I am certainly suffering here, of all ironies where many posters here, seem to have difficult time accepting me. But since the hearies are the discriminators here (it seems Jilio is one of them, based on her outlandish treatment of me, post after post), I will keep my mouth shut, since I bask in the wonderful utopian world that many posters in this thread "welcome" me in. Telling me, I am insignificant, and that my efforts are not going far enough. It's no wonder other CI users that are well adjusted in both worlds, will prefer the hearing world, where their deafness is ignored and not such an issue like it becomes here.

I look forward to the day, when Deaf people can accept all deaf people. I am very willing to integrate into this community, and respect your lifestyles and preferences, but the least I need, is to not be bashed for merely living my life choices, none of which have harmed anyone.
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The fact that you see me as discriminatory of the Deaf is evidence of how confused you truly are. No one has told you that you are insignificant, or that your efforts are not enough. We have simply told you that you are naive.

You are attempting to enter into the Deaf Culture without becoming Deaf.
 
shushugah said:
I am certainly suffering here, of all ironies where many posters here, seem to have difficult time accepting me. But since the hearies are the discriminators here (it seems Jilio is one of them, based on her outlandish treatment of me, post after post), I will keep my mouth shut, since I bask in the wonderful utopian world that many posters in this thread "welcome" me in. Telling me, I am insignificant, and that my efforts are not going far enough. It's no wonder other CI users that are well adjusted in both worlds, will prefer the hearing world, where their deafness is ignored and not such an issue like it becomes here.

I look forward to the day, when Deaf people can accept all deaf people. I am very willing to integrate into this community, and respect your lifestyles and preferences, but the least I need, is to not be bashed for merely living my life choices, none of which have harmed anyone.
Click to expand...

I do more than my share of respecting people, regardless of what their social statuses may be. However, I just don't always agree with everyone here.
 
DeafCaroline said:
Shushuga - welcome to AD - we're a bunch of passionate folks here.

And you are already getting sucked in. A few posts ago, you said you will not partake any further and yet here you are, still partaking, you've been officially initiated into AD!
Click to expand...

I said I will not partake in name calling or insulting. I never indicated that I'd step out of the debate either.


Honestly, I'm glad you didn't suffer growing up and that's fabulous. Sounds like you have a very supportive family and a great school life. Really that's great and we don't mean to belittle any of that. What we were responding to was your implication that deaf people didn't really suffer if they didn't go to death camps like the Jews. Don't forget, you did say that and that kinda started a lot of reactive responses. You DID invalidate the Deaf's misery by making such a statement.
Click to expand...

I invalidated the the title of the this thread as well as the first 30 pages (minus the irrelevant jargon) that explicated the "hearing take over the deaf". THAT is insulting and absurd. I asked, and I'll ask again, but I have not seen anywhere such indications of such actions or propositions.

Anyway...hang out, live and learn and don't take anything too personally. There will always be posters that will say things that really pisses you off but eh, here on AD, as in real life, that's the way the cookie crumbles. you can choose to engage in the debate or not. I am learning myself that I don't have to argue with everyone, especially those whose problems are not deafness but listening.
Click to expand...

Yeah, if this reaches the point of too much, I can simply stop posting on this thread, however I see potential, and already am having a productive flow of ideas and differences of opinion. I am happy to say, more people are now welcoming me.

GrendelQ and I simply called out a barrage of really absurd attacks by Jilio on me, she has every right to disagree with me, but trying to invalidate me through cheap tactics is just dishonest, to an otherwise sincere thread, which I myself am open minded to changing my opinions and views, I will however not have concrete facts distorted, as Jilio tried to do.
 
shushugah said:
I said I will not partake in name calling or insulting. I never indicated that I'd step out of the debate either.




I invalidated the the title of the this thread as well as the first 30 pages (minus the irrelevant jargon) that explicated the "hearing take over the deaf". THAT is insulting and absurd. I asked, and I'll ask again, but I have not seen anywhere such indications of such actions or propositions.



Yeah, if this reaches the point of too much, I can simply stop posting on this thread, however I see potential, and already am having a productive flow of ideas and differences of opinion. I am happy to say, more people are now welcoming me.

GrendelQ and I simply called out a barrage of really absurd attacks by Jilio on me, she has every right to disagree with me, but trying to invalidate me through cheap tactics is just dishonest, to an otherwise sincere thread, which I myself am open minded to changing my opinions and views, I will however not have concrete facts distorted, as Jilio tried to do.
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I'll be frank... You have a lot of learning to do.

Sending you a PM.
 
jillio said:
It shows that you were raised in a pure Oralist form. You are "hearing think".

It doesn't matter whether you call it oppression or not. Those that have experienced it call it oppression, and they are the ones to decide, not you.
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You are saying my view does not matter, can I interpret this some other way?
 
shushugah said:
I said I will not partake in name calling or insulting. I never indicated that I'd step out of the debate either.




I invalidated the the title of the this thread as well as the first 30 pages (minus the irrelevant jargon) that explicated the "hearing take over the deaf". THAT is insulting and absurd. I asked, and I'll ask again, but I have not seen anywhere such indications of such actions or propositions.


Yeah, if this reaches the point of too much, I can simply stop posting on this thread, however I see potential, and already am having a productive flow of ideas and differences of opinion. I am happy to say, more people are now welcoming me.

GrendelQ and I simply called out a barrage of really absurd attacks by Jilio on me, she has every right to disagree with me, but trying to invalidate me through cheap tactics is just dishonest, to an otherwise sincere thread, which I myself am open minded to changing my opinions and views, I will however not have concrete facts distorted, as Jilio tried to do.
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That is where you are making your mistake. It is indeed a social phenomena. You have simply not had the life experience to see the truth of the matter. It is wonderful that you have had such a supportive family. But once you get out into the real world, you will discover that real life does not function in the same way as your family system does.

I have not attacked you in the least. I have disagreed with you, and I have pointed out errors in your thinking. But I have not attacked you in any way,shape, or form. Nor have I employed any cheap tactics. And I did not distort any facts. Perhaps you should go back and re-read. Once you have done that, please indicate any posts I have made where I have distorted concrete facts, and please quote me directly. The same with any post you consider to be an attack or a cheap tactic.
 
shushugah said:
You are saying my view does not matter, can I interpret this some other way?
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shusuga - shhhhhh. You're 17, you're dealing with people twice your age and twice the life experiences. Drop the ego, drop the self-defensive shield and listen.
 
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