Do we have a challenge ahead of us to avoid becoming Hearing?

[posts from hell]

If I ever get thrown into the slammer again, I will become a Jew: they get the best food.

hehehe, i'll have to remember that.

 

[jillio]

Why are you, a hearing person, telling this deaf person his opinion about his experience doesn't matter?

Isn't he actually the one to decide, being that he is the deaf person who was raised in a pure Oralist form, as you say, and not you, a bystander who hasn't experienced his life?

Twisted. I did not tell him that his experience does not matter. I told him that he could not judge the deaf experience as being not oppressive to others when they define it as being oppressive. Maybe you need to read the posts a bit more thoroughly.:roll:

 

[deafskeptic]

Why are you, a hearing person, telling this deaf person his opinion about his experience doesn't matter?

Isn't he actually the one to decide, being that he is the deaf person who was raised in a pure Oralist form, as you say, and not you, a bystander who hasn't experienced his life?

No, it is the Deaf community who gets to decide that part.

Since an oral deaf person is not part of a Deaf community, it is not up to him to dictate what the Deaf community is to think.

Jillio is hearing yes but she is also Deaf. Being Deaf is about accepting the values in the Deaf community.

 

[jillio]

No, it is the Deaf community who gets to decide that part.

Since an oral deaf person is not part of a Deaf community, it is not up to him to dictate what the Deaf community is to think.

Jillio is hearing yes but she is also Deaf. Being Deaf is about accepting the values in the Deaf community.

I didn't think my post would be misconstrued by those that are following the thread closely. Or by the Deaf.

 

[GrendelQ]

No, it is the Deaf community who gets to decide that part.

Since an oral deaf person is not part of a Deaf community, it is not up to him to dictate what the Deaf community is to think.

Jillio is hearing yes but she is also Deaf. Being Deaf is about accepting the values in the Deaf community.

When questioned about his upbringing, Shushugah responds that he doesn't feel that his speech therapy was oppression, and values what he achieved through hard work, etc.. And you think it's fine for someone to say "It doesn't matter whether you call it oppression or not. Those that have experienced it call it oppression, and they are the ones to decide, not you."

DS, are you serious in saying that "an oral deaf person is not part of the Deaf community"?

 

[posts from hell]

When questioned about his upbringing, Shushugah responds that he doesn't feel that his speech therapy was oppression, and values what he achieved through hard work, etc.. And you think it's fine for someone to say "It doesn't matter whether you call it oppression or not. Those that have experienced it call it oppression, and they are the ones to decide, not you."

DS, are you serious in saying that "an oral deaf person is not part of the Deaf community"?

I want to bust some bomb droppers into this thread, but it would not be right........
hmmmmmmm How do I do this.

I would go as far to liken speech therapy to slavery. Freedom is granted through work and the slaves knew this, so the slave owners put a carrot in front of the person attached to a string, rod of which was attached to the persons back... so the person kept working towards freedom, although he would never be freed.

It is OUR duty to liberate the oppressors. If we do not, they will not ever know they're being the oppressors.

And you coming in here defending them............ We may as well liken you to the oppressors.

 

[deafskeptic]

When questioned about his upbringing, Shushugah responds that he doesn't feel that his speech therapy was oppression, and values what he achieved through hard work, etc.. And you think it's fine for someone to say "It doesn't matter whether you call it oppression or not. Those that have experienced it call it oppression, and they are the ones to decide, not you."

DS, are you serious in saying that "an oral deaf person is not part of the Deaf community"?

Since such a person doesn't know ASL or Deaf history, how could he be a part of the Deaf community? Note that I used the capital D to denote the culturally Deaf. That captial D is not a typo.

 

[jillio]

When questioned about his upbringing, Shushugah responds that he doesn't feel that his speech therapy was oppression, and values what he achieved through hard work, etc.. And you think it's fine for someone to say "It doesn't matter whether you call it oppression or not. Those that have experienced it call it oppression, and they are the ones to decide, not you."

DS, are you serious in saying that "an oral deaf person is not part of the Deaf community"?

You really need to stop trying to twist things.

 

[DeafCaroline]

GrendelQ - Shushugah was saying based on his own experience, he doesn't see why Deaf people feel oppressed and that surely this is not common. He's using his own experience to invalidate others' views.

Sushugah is not part of the deaf community. He's not in it. He's not actively participating in ASL, or mixing with Deaf or doing deaf activities. He's a member of the AD community yes because here, he's engaging and talking and interacting.

Grendelq, he's not the first oralist to show up here and say "well, I did so well DESPITE being deaf and I don't see why all of you are moaning and groaning. I did great!"

Good for them but their view tends to be - "it's great for me so surely it can't be that bad for other deaf people."

That's annoying. especially when they are so young and yet they know better than us and thus gives them the right to be dismissive.

 

[jillio]

I want to bust some bomb droppers into this thread, but it would not be right........
hmmmmmmm How do I do this.

I would go as far to liken speech therapy to slavery. Freedom is granted through work and the slaves knew this, so the slave owners put a carrot in front of the person attached to a string, rod of which was attached to the persons back... so the person kept working towards freedom, although he would never be freed.

It is OUR duty to liberate the oppressors. If we do not, they will not ever know they're being the oppressors.

And you coming in here defending them............ We may as well liken you to the oppressors.

Exactly, to you and to many others it was oppressive. And no one has the right to tell you that it wasn't. That was the point I was making that keeps getting twisted. For what purpose, other than being argumentative, I can't imagine.

 

[GrendelQ]

Since such a person doesn't know ASL or Deaf history, how could he be a part of the Deaf community? Note that I used the capital D to denote the culturally Deaf. That captial D is not a typo.

There are many deaf people on AD who are just learning or want to learn ASL/BSL. There are some who have no contact with other Deaf outside the forum, there are signing Deaf who don't know Deaf history. There are many participants on this forum who don't use ASL but interact with other Deaf warmly and regularly, I've never seen anyone before tell them they are excluded from the Deaf community.

 

[kokonut]

Slavery? Boy, talk about hyperbole in overdrive.

 

[jillio]

There are many deaf people on AD who are just learning or want to learn ASL/BSL. There are some who have no contact with other Deaf outside the forum, there are signing Deaf who don't know Deaf history. There are many participants on this forum who don't use ASL but interact with other Deaf warmly and regularly, I've never seen anyone before tell them they are excluded from the Deaf community.

The poster you are referencing doesn't appear to be one of them.

The thing that gets people rejected from the Deaf community is their audist views and their refusal to recognize the audism in themselves and correct it.

 

[jillio]

Slavery? Boy, talk about hyperbole in overdrive.

Great way to minimize the experience of another.:roll: Yep, superior attitude that is totally undeserved. And you wonder why people dislike you.

 

[DeafCaroline]

The poster you are referencing doesn't appear to be one of them.

The thing that gets people rejected from the Deaf community is their audist views and their refusal to recognize the audism in themselves and correct it.

You know what I find really really sad in audist oralists? The way they would say "despite my deafness, I did well in school, I did well in sports..."

Why does one have to spite their deafness to succeed? Deafness is not the real disability, it's hearing world's reaction to it. but oralists like sailerboy and shushugah are probably not even aware of what they are really saying.

I used to say that too "despite being deaf, I raised two kids..." until this cocky asshole told me that if I am doing so well, deaf or not deaf, then why point out the deafness part? the way he said it was not nice but he was right. how can we demand equal treatment when by saying "in spite of" - we are expecting to be considered extra special for being "as normal as hearing".

Ever since then, I never said "in spite of" - deafness is not my enemy.

 

[deafskeptic]

You know what I find really really sad in audist oralists? The way they would say "despite my deafness, I did well in school, I did well in sports..."

Why does one have to spite their deafness to succeed? Deafness is not the real disability, it's hearing world's reaction to it. but oralists like sailerboy and shushugah are probably not even aware of what they are really saying.

I used to say that too "despite being deaf, I raised two kids..." until this cocky asshole told me that i am doing so well, deaf or not deaf, then why point out the deafness part? the way he said it was not nice but he was right.

Ever since then, I never said "despite of" - deafness is not my enemy.

Exactly. I have always said that hearing attitude towards my deafness is my biggest handicap.

 

[jillio]

You know what I find really really sad in audist oralists? The way they would say "despite my deafness, I did well in school, I did well in sports..."

Why does one have to spite their deafness to succeed? Deafness is not the real disability, it's hearing world's reaction to it. but oralists like sailerboy and shushugah are probably not even aware of what they are really saying.

I used to say that too "despite being deaf, I raised two kids..." until this cocky asshole told me that i am doing so well, deaf or not deaf, then why point out the deafness part? the way he said it was not nice but he was right.

Ever since then, I never said "despite of" - deafness is not my enemy.

Exactly. That phrasing communicates that one sees their deafness as an obstacle or something to be conquered, rather than something to be lived with in a productive and well adjusted way. It all goes back to medicalization of deafness. These people see pathology and nothing more.

 

[kokonut]

You know what I find really really sad in audist oralists? The way they would say "despite my deafness, I did well in school, I did well in sports..."

Why does one have to spite their deafness to succeed? Deafness is not the real disability, it's hearing world's reaction to it. but oralists like sailerboy and shushugah are probably not even aware of what they are really saying.

I used to say that too "despite being deaf, I raised two kids..." until this cocky asshole told me that if I am doing so well, deaf or not deaf, then why point out the deafness part? the way he said it was not nice but he was right. how can we demand equal treatment when by saying "in spite of" - we are expecting to be considered extra special for being "as normal as hearing".

Ever since then, I never said "in spite of" - deafness is not my enemy.

I see it as the ability to overcome certain obstacles in life and you were able to succeed. Success is what you make of it. Not how it defines you.

 

[AlleyCat]

I see it as the ability to overcome certain obstacles in life and you were able to succeed. Success is what you make of it. Not how it defines you.

Did you get that off a motivational poster?

 

[GrendelQ]

GrendelQ - Shushugah was saying based on his own experience, he doesn't see why Deaf people feel oppressed and that surely this is not common. He's using his own experience to invalidate others' views.

Take a look as his posts: he was answering Messymama and Jiro who both posed scenarios of what they imagined his upbringing might have included and described it in very oppressive terms.

Jiro said to him:

But you can try to imagine it right now - an alternative dimension. Imagine your parents believing that you are a "defective product" because you're deaf and that you need CI to hear. Imagine your parents being embarrassed to show you around to people they know. Imagine your parents trying to communicate with you the way they want... not your way and getting frustrated all the time. and the worst part? imagine your parents always doubting you and not believing in you because you're a disabled boy and they think you're incapable of living an independent lifestyle - no driving, no walking by yourself, no hanging out with friends, etc. unless it's supervised.

To which he responds:

Errr, my parents are anything but like that. I will agree such views are very shrewd and narrow minded, however they are not the popular opinion either.

And to Messy Mama, who asks:

Shushugah, are you born deaf? How were you educated? Sing language ....?
I know kids that were tied in a high chair to do speech therapy, the therapist repeating sounds with her mouth covered... tongue depressor to learn to pronounce sounds (you should still find some interesting videos on youtube, try "logopedia"). Hours of that, starting very very young, too. Kids that have 2 hours a day of speech therapy at home, by their mother. All mainstreamed, of course...
If that's not oppression, I don't know what it is... And yes, many deaf adults say that's right, because they were grown up the same way and they're happy. Strange coincidence, abused children often say exactly the same thing when they grow up...

S. acknowledges that others have been oppressed, but insists that he has experienced otherwise. And in the next sentence, says: "I am completely cool with you not wanting to teach oral speech to your kids, that is your choice, lifestyle decision and opinion on the best way to raise a deaf student. "

And then again, he says : "I can only speak for my parents, not yours or most others really"

I really don't see how any of this invalidates someone else's experience. In fact, I see him as being very thoughtful of the range of experiences.