Do we have a challenge ahead of us to avoid becoming Hearing?

[DeafCaroline]

Grummer: what do you think needs to change to stop the ghetto-ization?

 

[jillio]

yeah something like on the right track,
yes we ought to explore what is "Deaf cool" ..why did i say that?

its like how do we genuinely makes Deaf culture cool, and to remove the 'failure' ghettoised culture aspect away from it, and at same time, to remove the 'fashion spend up which conveys the same kind of hearing culture's bent to brag about expensive clothes, or altenatively 'poor' self customised clothing which follows the hearing intellectual of 'punk' or 'goth' or politicalisation of punkness that i have always suspect many young d/Deaf dont really understand it, it makes me angry because they making a fool of themselves and at same time gives off false impressions of 'coolness' to hearing people, which, um...i cant say it in words yet, need to read more, but my time in reading is taken up in post-grad death materials so i find it hard to switch hats or better yet time management isnt my forte' . Hmmm but um, like seeking and receiving approvals from hearing culture via recoginition visually its in the 'hearing world' thus forgeting what about 'deaf world cool' but to me, its also the ghettoised 'cool' like rough people, I have noticed a lot of d/Deaf likes rough, like drinking horrible Bourbon and Coke instead of really good wines. To me i thnk partially of this is, the Bourbon and coke is Easy to see, and the wine is less understood (too many horrible shit out there too) and the art of getting the right wines isnt in grasp of many d/Deaf people because of its 'high English' use in its reviews/magazines and wine drinking 'cultures'...these things have ALWAYS been on my 'watching eyes' yet i havent done anything about it, (yet)... but yes this is a very rough Rough start to ask such a question, what is Deaf Cool, by that i also meant across the ages, not teenage or young adults or rich middle agers (wine drinkers)...i suppose one such might be tolerance and ability to talk about signs and keeping the peace and another might be making good conversations about romance, not sex (Deaf LOVES talking about sex good gawd, just yesterday the Deaf Pool club members on a 'away' at the hearing pub for a day's pool challenge, 80% of the stuff they talked about was sex and more sex lol, the hearing bystanders, pool players were like 'um'. and carry on talking about hearing stuff, which isnt going to be sex ofc...not that much you know??

in a way, also i sometimes wonder does this puts parents of to have their kids be submersed in Deaf culture?? i wonder..sorry to bash my own world, but hey got to be honest and we do need discuss these 'unsaid' things too ...

I think many parents are put off by having their kids submerged in Deaf Culture. They have difficulty accepting that the culture can provide something for their child that they or their culture cannot.

 

[shel90]

Ok, how do you emulate the fashion of historical deaf figures? Deaf kids wear the same clothes as hearing people do and it's not because they want to copy "hearing" people but because they're teenagers, they like what they see and copy it, make it their own.

What should they be wearing that would make you say "oh, they're not copying the hearing at all" or "oh, that's Deaf Cool, I know that style."

Not trying to be dense but I'm not sure if Grummer is saying that they should be same as or less extreme than hearing. The fact they are more so is their statement.

Grummer, what did you mean by Deaf Cool and how did you envison that in how people express themselves in clothes and styles?

Actually in the Deaf community, there are the diversity in style of clothing and groups...the jocks, the Goths, bikers, urban, country, and a few more..just like with hearing people. I think it is the same for all cultures.

In the Deaf community, we have our own Deaf style of dress...colorful CIs, glittering HA molds, and a few more.

 

[Grummer]

Grummer: what do you think needs to change to stop the ghetto-ization?

its the disability thing, the mentality to feel comfortable to stay in the poor, and talk 'earthly' but really means 'not looking up' just ghettoising, id need to talk my lecturer about this again and get back - we talked at lenght about this couples years ago , i wonder if i can refresh and maybe find some appropriate materials (text books/links) to share here...so "hold that'.stay tuned lol)..ok?

 

[jillio]

i know, and thats why in another thread i mentioned Deaf chemist, deaf scientist, deaf Real Deaf Geologist - Check
Real Deaf Chemist - Check
Real Deaf Rocket Scientist (And he heads a crew of engineers that builds rockets at SpaceX) - Check
Real Deaf Chef - Plenty of them,
in the Deaf Research Paper Topic, OP is marcyp06, one of the reason why i suggested that, is the REAL role models, not the PC-role models, i mean really REAL Deaf people with success, whom contributed to history, put further, shape up the history of Deaf people's success, (not just in the boring Education, disability politics Gally etc - too narrow and too colourless (whatever im saying)
soz im not prosing this post perfectly im brainstorm silmutaneously as i write this, (and same time i have a dreadful tinnitus so i cant focus well/half the reason staying home on the laptop)...

In summary of this mini-brainstorm post, I am saying; yeah i agree on that 100% that we should focus on the positives of deafness, will allow these kids to develop an identity that is not dependent upon fitting into, or mimicing, hearing cultural values.

We need to develop a new curriculum for Deaf students; young and old, 'Hearing culture and Deaf Culture'...in this way, we can push out the disabling mentality across the board...

Definately pushing out the disabling mentality will result in less ghettoization of Deaf Culture. ASL has gained respect in recent years, thanks to Stokoe and other linguists who have shown it to be a complete and separate language, but unfortunately, that knowledge hasn't really gained a foothold anywhere but with the Deaf and hearing academics. True, colleges are offering ASL as an option for foreign language requirements, but unfortunately, the teachers are very often hearing and ill informed regarding the linguisitics and the effects that language has on culture.

We need to somehow take deafness out of the closet and into the visual field of the hearing. That would reach those deaf that are stuck in the mainstream, and give them permission to explore who they are and what their deafness means to them. If it is in the mainstream visual field, it gains a level of acceptance just because of that.

 

[Grummer]

Actually in the Deaf community, there are the diversity in style of clothing and groups...the jocks, the Goths, bikers, urban, country, and a few more..just like with hearing people. I think it is the same for all cultures.

In the Deaf community, we have our own Deaf style of dress...colorful CIs, glittering HA molds, and a few more.

in the bold, just like white cultures, thats the problems it hides Deaf culture too well, making it hard to see, what's cool about Deaf culture or rather some say what's fashion, or 'signals' of troubled youth (oh that would be obvious (or not?)) ... hmm

ok theres body language too...

 

[jillio]

Ah. Well, another way of looking at it is that tattoos, piercings, extreme styles of clothing were traditionally considered fashion for outsiders. Those who don't fit into traditional molds. And they are usually not tame about it. So, I'm guessing, totally hypothesizing really, that the fact the Deaf people Grummer was referring to were "more so" might be their statement that they know they're different and not going to hide it. Know what I mean? Again, it's a young people thing.

When you mentioned historical figures I was thinking "props to Beethoven and Helen Keller, really, but I don't wanna copy their style."

Perhaps not their style,lol, but they certainly had some personal strengths and characteristics that I consider "cool" and would be well worth emulating. Most of all is their message that disability in any form does not prevent you from succeeding in any way you choose.

But mostly I mentioned deaf historical figures because deaf children are generally taught hearing history, and they need to know that there are deaf people in history that have made significant contributions to the world as we know it. Understanding that there have always been deaf individuals who have stood out and been considered way cool for their time allows a kid to grasp the fact that it can continue today. It is kind of like the never being exposed to a deaf adult and thinking you will grow up hearing thing. Most deaf kids are really not aware that the Deaf Culture has a very rich history of which to be proud. Learning that translates to learning to be proud of their own Deaf identity.

 

[Grummer]

Definately pushing out the disabling mentality will result in less ghettoization of Deaf Culture. ASL has gained respect in recent years, thanks to Stokoe and other linguists who have shown it to be a complete and separate language, but unfortunately, that knowledge hasn't really gained a foothold anywhere but with the Deaf and hearing academics. True, colleges are offering ASL as an option for foreign language requirements, but unfortunately, the teachers are very often hearing and ill informed regarding the linguisitics and the effects that language has on culture.

We need to somehow take deafness out of the closet and into the visual field of the hearing. That would reach those deaf that are stuck in the mainstream, and give them permission to explore who they are and what their deafness means to them. If it is in the mainstream visual field, it gains a level of acceptance just because of that.

YES YES YES this is partially what im trying to say too!
i just needed mind gelling with the best minds too, i like to explore and sometimes i have trouble prosing, untill i really understand it, then it become easier to say it...get me?

 

[Grummer]

Ok, how do you emulate the fashion of historical deaf figures? Deaf kids wear the same clothes as hearing people do and it's not because they want to copy "hearing" people but because they're teenagers, they like what they see and copy it, make it their own.

What should they be wearing that would make you say "oh, they're not copying the hearing at all" or "oh, that's Deaf Cool, I know that style."

Not trying to be dense but I'm not sure if Grummer is saying that they should be same as or less extreme than hearing. The fact they are more so is their statement.

Grummer, what did you mean by Deaf Cool and how did you envison that in how people express themselves in clothes and styles?

yes, that too

 

[shel90]

in the bold, just like white cultures, thats the problems it hides Deaf culture too well, making it hard to see, what's cool about Deaf culture or rather some say what's fashion, or 'signals' of troubled youth (oh that would be obvious (or not?)) ... hmm

ok theres body language too...

Deaf teenagers are like any other teenagers...they copy the fashions of pop culture. It is normal. Even I do that...

 

[Grummer]

loose shouldered clothes, short arm's lengths to void snaggin wrists for signing? bold colours (terps wear black for professionalism, and to keep their hands/face clear for long-ass terping and deaf audience to watch clearly), shoes? probably doesnt count...does some deafs have poor dress sense, other really good? maybe why is there such a drastic variety? does it hint something about the demography?

 

[DeafCaroline]

I think we do need to be more self-sufficient but a lot of people get discouraged when it seems an impossible task when any attempt to do so from getting a bank loan to getting a job is an enormously difficult task. that coupled with bad education is not helping. I'm all for a nation-wide council of Educators for the Deaf who establish a nation-wide standard for severe to profoundly deaf kids and education. Much like the Swedish model so they've got all the best chances in life and armed with tools to succeed. And I think they should be working side by side with hearing professionals to help inform parents what their child needs to grow up and be well developed in all ways.

I think the better education the Deaf gets, the better they will do in life. So, as deafbaijal said, we need to put asides politics and start looking at models of deaf schools or deaf programs within mainstream schools that are successful, learn from them and implement them.

 

[Grummer]

Like Ideology, fashion is never neutral, it sets up how we ought to 'understand' the modern world...by being in the part of it, or not...

 

[jillio]

YES YES YES this is partially what im trying to say too!
i just needed mind gelling with the best minds too, i like to explore and sometimes i have trouble prosing, untill i really understand it, then it become easier to say it...get me?

Yep, I get you! I am oftentimes the same way. I have all the information I need banging around in my brain, but I can't get it to gel into a cohesive written statement. I understand it, but just can't seem to verbalize it well.

 

[jillio]

Like Ideology, fashion is never neutral, it sets up how we ought to 'understand' the modern world...by being in the part of it, or not...

True, that. How we choose to present ourselves says a great deal about world view.

 

[shel90]

loose shouldered clothes, short arm's lengths to void snaggin wrists for signing? bold colours (terps wear black for professionalism, and to keep their hands/face clear for long-ass terping and deaf audience to watch clearly), shoes? probably doesnt count...does some deafs have poor dress sense, other really good? maybe why is there such a drastic variety? does it hint something about the demography?

I live in a blue collar neighborhood and the majority of people dress very plain..baggy tshirts, jeans, unkept hair, and worn out sneakers. When I lived in upper class Rockville, people dressed very classy...high heels, pressed clothes, and accessories. All hearing people so yep, there are many heairng people who have poor taste in style or wear unflattering clothes.

In the Deaf community, I see the same as well in both areas.

 

[jillio]

I live in a blue collar neighborhood and the majority of people dress very plain..baggy tshirts, jeans, unkept hair, and worn out sneakers. When I lived in upper class Rockville, people dressed very classy...high heels, pressed clothes, and accessories. All hearing people so yep, there are many heairng people who have poor taste in style or wear unflattering clothes.

In the Deaf community, I see the same as well in both areas.

Yeah, I agree that demographics has a lot to do with it...but demographics can also affect the way one feels about themself or influence their world view, which is then reflected in their choice of dress.

 

[Grummer]

Yeah, I agree that demographics has a lot to do with it...but demographics can also affect the way one feels about themself or influence their world view, which is then reflected in their choice of dress.

that was one of the things im trying to say too
it hints on esteem and mentality of unwillingness to fight for Deaf Rights...um...

 

[shel90]

that was one of the things im trying to say too
it hints on esteem and mentality of unwillingness to fight for Deaf Rights...um...

So if one is willing to fight for Deaf rights, how should that person dress? I have noticed those who fight for Deaf rights have their own distinctive styles..some dress unflattering while others do. Look at Bill Gates...very very intelligent but wasnt into the latest fashions. From my understanding, it meant that his passion was about the mathematical equations that went on in his head not fashion.

I am trying to understand what you are implying here.

 

[jillio]

that was one of the things im trying to say too
it hints on esteem and mentality of unwillingness to fight for Deaf Rights...um...

Yep. It is very common for oppressed populations to feel that the only way out of oppression is to assimilate into the majority culture.

It is also common for an individual to accept the marginal status that the majority gives them because it is less frustrating than fighting it.