Do we have a challenge ahead of us to avoid becoming Hearing?

[Grummer]

Well, the Swedish studies have proven that when a child has access to language, ANY language, be it vocal or signed, at a young age and is able to have access to education taught in the language they can follow, they do better.

However, the reality is - you live in an English speaking country, so do I, so does Berry, AJWSmith, Shel90 and it IS an advantage to be able to speak and lipread. Can one function without speaking and lipread? Certainly. Of course. But does one function better in an English-speaking hearing world if they are able to at least lipread, of course. Just open your front door and sign at someone. They won't understand. They speak back to you, and you have no lipreading skills, you don't understand.

If we lived on a Deaf island where there are no hearing speaking people, we could totally live in a fully industrious society with no need for hearing or speaking but we don't.

so, we have to be realistic and ask ourselves, what edge can we give ourselves in a hearing speaking world? It's not a threat to our identity to be able to communicate in more than one language, to add more tools to our communication abilities. My son is anglo, he's fluent in French, does that mean he's no longer anglo? Not at all. It just means he's fluent in more than one language.

And obviously, the younger the person, the greater they are able to acquire a language so if we want kids to be able to lipread and speak, we do have to start young. The Swedish paper GrendelQ linked to said however that the younger the child is implanted, the less likely parents will use sign and that affects the child's linguistic development in any language. That's very concerning.

OK...i did knew that about the reality of the excess idealism of being COMPLETELY ENCULTURATED in a Deaf Way, I agree with that. Wee bit about myself, I am too mself have some speech (pretty good actually, half of them wouldnt know im deaf) and too I have like you, endured a full range of subtle and not-so-subtle forms of audist oppressions.

About GrendelQ's links about the concern of parents getting lazy and falling back to hoping their child would be more hearing than deaf/Deaf by withdrawing their contribution to sign to their children is Indeed a genuine worry for it would will perpentuate the dire straits which we all encounters as being d/Deaf in the hearing world, due to lack of empathy, lack of connection with those are biologically closest to us, our parents.
It is Cruel not to come half way with their child to speak the language of eyes and hands, for it is a much quicker path to socialisation and learning the social make ups that 'explains' the world to us. That is the biggest hole which mainstream-oral only do not suffice to provide young/growing up teenagers d/Deaf kids....the warped/porous knowledge of the world is going to hurt alot on the ability to [hearing-] socially fit in the working world simply the hypothetically grew up CI-kids are still going to lack this 'business savvy/hearing-world knowledge to provide their skills to employers whose are predominantly Hearing, and that is going to make it hard to survive. After all , school along with media teaches us that the developed world which we live, have thing we can do to enjoy so whats the point of getting jobs that only gives us survival but not anything else above it? and No I dont wish to say oralism is better because...id be quite careful about that lines Caroline, but i know what you mean, but for sake of theorium and practice and the links yet havent developed (like my idea of "Hearing Culture" as a compulsory school curriculum for d/Deaf children thru to high school/university levels...i really think this is a worthwhile possibility we should be thinking about also.

G

 

[Smithtr]

Yes, he is a bully, here and on his blogs, as well. But we all know that bullies suffer from a severe lack of self esteem and try to make themselves feel superior by trying to make other people look bad.

reason bully on hurt feeling his protect because It is very lots of bully bad habit!

should be stop it bully swearing and attituge behavior! gossip terrible

If suppose he is very hurting very upset and avoid bother involve trouble bully!

I am experience study education bully! I recommand to my principle handle

or authority handle to prevent to something situation life, low esteem emotion!

! That is not good bully! people discrimination and bully! reason his want to nice social good wise on happy and friends!

avoid bad negative, bugging something!


I should be respect to deaf culture on courage to protect to familiar to quality value fair to judgement and more mature


if suppose younger silly behavior bully! parents will punishment to ground them,

learn it mistake change once time lesson rule!

 

[Grummer]

There is definately someone involved that has deeper underlying issues, but it is not DC. You are really blind to your own faults.:roll:

thats why i picked the eyeless ranter avatar he raves all day about oralism see the big mouth and ears,, no nose to sniff feelings and no eyes to see faults. Such a freak

 

[kokonut]

I didn't "brag" about putting you on ignore. You need to study the dictionary. I stated it.

I responded because even though I put you on ignore, I still kept seeing what you wrote when others quoted you and then of course, I am wondering if I should see the entirety of what you wrote so I won't jump to conclusions because it's very easy to take things out of context when you take out one sentence from 2 or 3 paragraphs and quote that. It became easier to not ignore you so I can be sure I understood what was said instead of only part of what was said.

I have provided counter-arguments to you before but when I realized that you don't take any stances nor do you answer any questions that requires you to say more than yes or no, that you get very evasive and totally avoid addressing the argument head on. you're unbelievably skilled at that but guess what, we're noticing your M.O.

But you know, I could talk until i'm blue in the face and you still are going to think you're right and everybody is wrong because you want to be always right. I have never, not one single time seen you write: "you're right, I stand corrected on this fact or that." Not one single time.

AGAIN - I dont have a problem with your POVs, it's your attitude. How many times do I have to say this before you UNDERSTAND? Do I need to write in big big letters? Get a megaphone? do sky-writing? I mean???

That's your problem - you don't listen to what others say then you respond with a tone dripping with condescension just for the sake of being an ass.

You reap what you sow.

I've stated my POVs many times, yet some people get upset with them. I've stated about POVs and not about whether other people's views are wrong. I hear other people's POVs. I just have a different version. That's why it's called "POV."

DC, I'm not the one getting all upset and riled here yet you chose to respond.

 

[Beach girl]

Yes, he is a bully, here and on his blogs, as well. But we all know that bullies suffer from a severe lack of self esteem and try to make themselves feel superior by trying to make other people look bad.

Well, you should sure know! That's all you've been doing for the last several posts.

 

[kokonut]

Amen.

 

[Smithtr]

I've stated my POVs many times, yet some people get upset with them. I've stated about POVs and not about whether other people's views are wrong. I hear other people's POVs. I just have a different version. That's why it's called "POV."

DC, I'm not the one getting all upset and riled here yet you chose to respond.

sound if supposed hearing culture look like POV on the person! if hurt to situation on upset reason if supposed happened screw up! bully is very mistake fault! nobody tell people! that is why control bad people negative!
instead on good people positive depend!

 

[DeafCaroline]

Hey Grummer - I definitely agree with you that Oralism is not better. 100%.

Just saying for practical reasons such as we live in a speaking hearing world that knowing how to lipread and speak does help add to our ability to communicate with the hearing. In no way am I pushing oralism over signing. Not at all. God no.

 

[Grummer]

reason bully on hurt feeling his protect because It is very lots of bully bad habit!

should be stop it bully swearing and attituge behavior! gossip terrible

If suppose he is very hurting very upset and avoid bother involve trouble bully!

I am experience study education bully! I recommand to my principle handle

or authority handle to prevent to something situation life, low esteem emotion!

! That is not good bully! people discrimination and bully! reason his want to nice social good wise on happy and friends!

avoid bad negative, bugging something!


I should be respect to deaf culture on courage to protect to familiar to quality value fair to judgement and more mature


if suppose younger silly behavior bully! parents will punishment to ground them,

learn it mistake change once time lesson rule!

kokonut doesnt swear thats a biggest reason why he is not banned. He is indeed a very cunning bully who likes to use hearing version of words wits, he is quite boring really. Leave kokjonut alone maybe he want to be alone let him suffer in isolation

 

[Smithtr]

Well, you should sure know! That's all you've been doing for the last several posts.

amen you correct exactly that all simply!

 

[Smithtr]

kokonut doesnt swear thats a biggest reason why he is not banned. He is indeed a very cunning bully who likes to use hearing version of words wits, he is quite boring really. Leave kokjonut alone maybe he want to be alone let him suffer in isolation

I understand clear !I am neutral! your problem on business not my business!

hard to difficult life not easy complication! I Understand situation to your him! might

If supposed hearing! wow almost 900 thread!

 

[jillio]

reason bully on hurt feeling his protect because It is very lots of bully bad habit!

should be stop it bully swearing and attituge behavior! gossip terrible

If suppose he is very hurting very upset and avoid bother involve trouble bully!

I am experience study education bully! I recommand to my principle handle

or authority handle to prevent to something situation life, low esteem emotion!

! That is not good bully! people discrimination and bully! reason his want to nice social good wise on happy and friends!

avoid bad negative, bugging something!


I should be respect to deaf culture on courage to protect to familiar to quality value fair to judgement and more mature


if suppose younger silly behavior bully! parents will punishment to ground them,

learn it mistake change once time lesson rule!

Well said, Travis!

 

[jillio]

Well, you should sure know! That's all you've been doing for the last several posts.

Yeah, you still don't get it.:roll:

 

[kokonut]

kokonut doesnt swear thats a biggest reason why he is not banned. He is indeed a very cunning bully who likes to use hearing version of words wits, he is quite boring really. Leave kokjonut alone maybe he want to be alone let him suffer in isolation

Why would I want to swear?? I don't even do that in my own blogs much less even snivel.

 

[jillio]

thats why i picked the eyeless ranter avatar he raves all day about oralism see the big mouth and ears,, no nose to sniff feelings and no eyes to see faults. Such a freak

Yep. I LMAO! It was so appropriate.

 

[Smithtr]

Well said, Travis!

that is all simply! ! that is all whole add worst increase negative I am netural cool!

 

[jillio]

Why would I want to swear?? I don't even do that in my own blogs much less even snivel.

Hey, Grammar Nazi! Jump on this post, why don't you?

 

[Bottesini]

I understand clear !I am neutral! your problem on business not my business!

hard to difficult life not easy complication! I Understand situation to your him! might

If supposed hearing! wow almost 900 thread!

Neutral. I agree. It is a lot better to stay neutral. The fighting is very stressful.

 

[Beach girl]

Here you go again, jumping in to advise on situations of which you know very, very little. Kokonut is well known, and not well liked, within the Deaf community, or the deaf community. He has quite a history, and that history follows him here. Many members of this forum have a history with koko that you are completely unaware of. There is more than one member that goes all the way back to his college days. Many more that have had frequent contact with him regarding deaf issues. He has been guilty of ranting in more than one forum. Likewise, he takes issues from AD and comments on them negatively, to include making inflammatory and dishonest statements regarding specific individuals. Again, I would advise you to gather more facts regarding situations before you give unsolicited advise.

My advice to you would be to get a dictionary, but I bet you won't do that, either.

Whether you like it or not, I'm a member in good standing of AD and have the right to say what I think. What I see is a bunch of people being way more personally and publicly insulting to koko than he is to any individual here. If you don't like his ideas, then argue on the basis of ideas, not this petty name-calling.

Who cares if some people here have known him since college days? You're talking about holding a grudge against someone for years and years??? Sheesh...

How would you like it if someone dredged up YOUR college days and complained about something you did or said back then?

You're good at telling people to get back on topic once you have exhausted a side-bar argument. Maybe it's time to take that advice here, too.

 

[DeafCaroline]

BG - I thought you wanted everyone to stop ranting and get back to the topic at hand. so, let's all do that, shall we?