Do we have a challenge ahead of us to avoid becoming Hearing?

jillio said:
Yes, it does occur with all disabilities. I have no idea why parents often feel they need to "protect" their children with a disability by not exposing them to others with disabilities. Especially adults.
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Can you any insight as to why? Am I right in my thinking that it is part of normalise therapy(oralism when talking about deaf kids)
jillio said:
It is not unusual for the father to have much more difficulty accepting the child's disability than the mother has.
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In saying that I have meet some amazing fathers at para sport. But they know there kids are diffident and accept their childs way of life
jillio said:
Most of us labeled as "liberal" do. The conservative mind set is decidedly against philanthropy. "Let them pull themselves up by their boot straps!" "No free rides here!" "Social programs? Absurd!"
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But what about the tools for them to be able "see" that "Let them pull themselves up by their boot straps!" is possible
 
drphil said:
"Statement": Hearing people oppress the deaf.. Mentioned many times here.

"statement" Hearing people do not oppress the deaf.

Simple question: can both statements be true at the same time?

Implanted A B Harmony activated Aug/07
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You have been persistent on this so I am going to give you the respect of answering.

First off Miller's law has to do with psychology and understanding people and the way they think. It has nothing to do with logic and truth or the search for it.

So let us take a couple of statements from Mr. Deaf Militant and a couple of statements from Mr. Pro AGBell.



Mr. Deaf Militant says two things:

"Hearing people oppress Deaf people and we want an end to it. They refuse to allow us to do things we can do and insist we do things that are of no benefit to us."

"The government is trying to commit genocide on Deaf people that would destroy everything we hold dear."



Mr. Pro AGBell says:

“We we are trying to help deaf people fit into society as normal human beings.”

"The government is only trying to fund research that will cure the malady of deafness so deaf people can lead normal lives."


What MUST be true for Mr. Deaf Militant's belief to be true?

For confirmation of the first part of the first sentence all we have to do is look to where I work. There isn't a job there a D/deaf person can't do. However when I say this management always gives me the same reply, "It is a safety issue. The would get themselves or someone else hurt." For the second part all we have to do is look at the desire of Mr. Pro Agbell to make all deaf people oral only. This requires an unreasonable investment of time and effort for the results obtained compared to using Signed Languages.

For confirmation of the second part all we have to do is assume he values Deaf cultural as the most important aspect of his life and he believes it is in danger. All we have to do to confirm that this sentence is not pure paranoia is to listen to Mr. Pro AGBell's second sentence.

So now we can:

A. Understand his position, and

B. Recognize he has real world cause for his beliefs.

Now you may argue that he is over reacting, or that the danger is not as imminent as he thinks, but you are not discounting his beliefs or the validity of them.

Now let us look at the opposing opinion. Mr. Pro AGBell.

He feels no animosity toward D/deaf people. He believes fitting into the hearing world through lip reading and voicing is the best, if not the only real choice, for D/deaf people. He is there to help do this in any way he can. He is at a loss to understand why D/deaf people are so ungrateful for all the effort he and others have put out on their behalf.

What must be true for this to be true?

D/deaf people must need a paternal hearing person to guide them on the path of fitting into the hearing world. And fitting into the hearing world must be a desirable thing to do.

If you don't know anything about Deaf Culture this seems a pretty reasonable attitude, even if you know some deaf people.

The next step is not, as some would imagine, to prove Mr. Pro AGBell is wrong. The next step is to check and see if anything validates his opinion.

Immediately we run up against the fact that Alexander Graham Bell's mother was deaf. I do not know much about her but I do know his wife, Mabel Hubbard, was also deaf. Furthermore she was an absolutely amazing woman who took to her husband's deaf teachings like a duck to water. If you had NO other facts at hand you would swear Bell's system was proven beyond doubt by her.

Since then they have had other successes.

Pointing to their failures is of no use as they will simply blame the student who did not apply themselves, or they intervened too late, or the poor child was contaminated by ASL.

Thus their beliefs are validated through real world experience. So long as they discount Deaf Culture they have no reason to change their opinions.

This seems like an impasse. In truth it is not. What it becomes is a battle for the opinions of the uncommitted, especially parents of deaf children. Both sides agree time is of the essence. The first people to advocate to the parents during their initial time of uncertainty and worry are the most likely winners.

We are talking politics. Law and public opinion plus well funded organizations, such as AG Bell has, reaching out to the deaf child, and the parents of the deaf child, as soon as possible.

It can be done. But I don't think it should be done by a hearing person.
 
BecLak said:
This is why I believe sign-language should be used more and more in public. It gives the d/Deaf proper access to cognitive skills and comprehension.

As for reading and writing, although it is does make it easier all round to have that skill in general society, however, with multi-cultural situations all around the world, visual gestures always come into play wherever we may be or whatever the situation we find ourselves in.

Therefore, more exposure and more recognition should be given to sign languages around the world. It actually takes less effort for someone (hearing or deaf) to figure out what is being expressed in sign language than for a d/Deaf person to figure out spoken language. Like I have said many a time before, only a small percentage of communication is spoken. The majority of communication is visual via facial expression and body language. Sign language gives the ultimate dimension and depth to expression in communication. The more exposure it is given, the more the general public will recognise this.
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Fact: We have DVD's.

The written word was a huge advance for humanity. But now, if it were to disappear, a very unlikely happening to be sure, but if it did disappear, we have better ways to communicate with each other and better ways to pass on our traditions, beliefs, history, knowledge.

There is no longer any need to develop a written system for ASL. (Or any other language, signed or spoken)

Sign it and pass it on.
 
Thanks Berry: re Miller's law "thinking style" believed by the person- "true' as such only to person who so believes. Used to be called "circular thinking"-at one time.
As a deaf person don't believe I am "oppressed". Cheers deaf militant!


Implanted A B Harmony activated Aug/07
 
Schools, D/deaf hearing, what so be it.

My mother's generation believed that play was the way children learned. They designed games that taught children, or utilized them. When my mother wanted me to learn how to add and subtract she did not teach me. She brought out the domino set. I do not remember all the varieties of domino games we played but I suspect she made some of them up.

When she wanted me to spell she brought out the scrabble game.

When my mother and other parents mentioned to the school system they were doing things the hard way the parents were told, "Leave us to do our job. We are the experts. We are using the most modern methods. You are just quoting old wives tales that mean nothing."

Somewhere in the sixties studies came out that proved the least effective way to teach was through reading and lecturing. It produced the least initial result and was the most quickly forgotten.

It was determined the most effective way to teach was through games and play. Children learn the quickest this way and retain what they have learned the longest.

My mother and her entire generation were proven correct.

Yet now, sixty years later, schools are still using the least effective methodology.

And you will still be told, "Leave us to do our job. We are the experts. We are using the most modern methods."

Yeah, right.
 
Berry said:
Schools, D/deaf hearing, what so be it.

My mother's generation believed that play was the way children learned. They designed games that taught children, or utilized them. When my mother wanted me to learn how to add and subtract she did not teach me. She brought out the domino set. I do not remember all the varieties of domino games we played but I suspect she made some of them up.

When she wanted me to spell she brought out the scrabble game.

When my mother and other parents mentioned to the school system they were doing things the hard way the parents were told, "Leave us to do our job. We are the experts. We are using the most modern methods. You are just quoting old wives tales that mean nothing."

My mother and her entire generation were proven correct.

Yet now, sixty years later, schools are still using the least effective methodology.

And you will still be told, "Leave us to do our job. We are the experts. We are using the most modern methods."

Yeah, right.
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You sound like an afterschooler?

It a great system for parents who need a break

At the moment Im living at home(19 been moved out for 3 years) and we still use our afterschooler program
 
Wirelessly posted

jillio said:
kokonut said:
Ok. It was a belief of yours when you were little. And I'm saying for me, I didn't have that belief because I already knew I'd still have my hearing loss as I got older. It's not hard to believe that some deaf/hh kids would think they'd grow up and become hearing.

:dunno:
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Wow! You really are a remarkable person, and must have been a genius as a child. You claim to have escaped all of the things that other deaf/hoh people have in common.

**sarcasm ended**

The truth of the matter is, you are still dealing with your issues regarding your hoh status and your desire to be hearing. Everything move you make is suggestive of trying to fit into the hearing world and reject anything and everything to do with hearing loss. Those kids grew up to be much more well adjusted than you did.
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Kokonut then is in the wrong thread. He should take note of the name of thread and OP.
 
wow this thread is STILL going, fantastic, id have to do a do 3 hr sit down read thru on this one...could anyone help me catch up with a sorta summary?
thanks in advance...keep it going, fantastic again..!
 
and, oh please dont update on kokonut's latest cerebral draining attempts, he's such a put-off bad smell...
 
Escaped? All I said that I knew I wasn't going to grow up and magically become hearing when I was a boy. LOL. Where did I say I escaped all of the things that other deaf/hoh people have in common? I have a hearing loss, don't you remember? You're losing it.

Beclak, seems like you have a certain angst towards me for some reason? Just like you, I feel that I'm hard of hearing for purpose on this Earth. And I certainly do thank Him for allowing me that to have that miracle, even if it's just a little bit of it.
 
Gee: one should consider reading "backwards" why one comments as they do relate to "other persons" comments?

What any of this has to do with "hearing/deaf problems" problematically.

Off to deaf swimming shortly: reflecting on Alldeaf.com- who is real/actual deaf?

Implanted A B Harmony activated Aug/07
 
Wirelessly posted

No, Kokonut, your constant mention of the 'benefits' of hearing and of conforming to a hearing society is out of place on this thread that is all.
 
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The impression I got from Kokonut's blog is that he thinks Deaf people give deaf people like him a bad name.
 
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