District files appeal against deaf student

[jillio]

Jackie:

"No they did not teach me at John Tracy Clnic. You sure make a lot of judgements about JTC. Have you heard gone to JTC? Have you ever spoke to the staff at JTC? I am assuming you never have and have made your judgement without knowing them really? Isn't that also making judgements?"


Jillio:

"I am not the only one making judgements about John Tracy Clinic. Have youread some of the posts in here about JTC? And what I do know is that JTC is one of the most infamous oral clinics in the country...it is widespread knowledge... And please go back and answer the questions posed to your earlier."

You would be well served to follow your own misguided advice!

As usual, a non-responsive answer full of double talk and anti-oral rantings and ravings from the HSQ.

Bottomline, you have no direct knowledge about the John Tracey Clinic because you have never visited and observed the place nor talked to anyone there as your answer demonstrates.

But why let that stop you from trashing the place, after all its an "oral instititution". At best, you are merely repeating unsubstantiated allegations from as usual, unanmed sources, at worst, you are just making the accusations up to justify your position.

Oh, and you have visited JTC? You have direct knowledge from personal experience? Do you even have any second hand knowledge of JTC? Did you even hear of it prior to coming in to jackie's post.

Her training was at JTC, and judging from some of her posts, it would tell any thinking person exactly what they need to know. They turn out robotic thinking, unskilled, and ill qualified teachers of the deaf.

When have you ever bothered to make sure that you have information prior to shooting off your mouth?

 

[jillio]

Jillio,

A few weeks ago you accused me of, I think the term you used was, "welching" on a bet. You said that you had contacted St. Rita's and in a violation of privacy, someone there, whose name you refused to divulge, (gee does that pattern sound familiar?) said that they had not recieved a $20 donation.

Well, I filled out form 6401 with the Post Office in order to obtain a copy of the cashed money order that I had sent to St. Rita's. When I returned from vacation, I got the copy and the back clearly shows that not only was it received but it was cashed at their bank at The Fifth Third Bank in Cincinnati with their own stamp on the back of the money order.

Once again, you have made false accusations about me for which I know, no apology will be forthcoming but it is once again always a pleasure to prove you wrong. So what was it? Were you lying about St. Rita's not recieving the donation or were they lying to you?

Got as copy of that? Frankly, rick, I don't trust anything you have to say. You have already proven the nature of your character, and it does not inspire trust. BTW, are you a used car salesman?

 

[jillio]

Didn't Jackie do the exact same thing about children who go to Riverside school for the deaf and the school itself? If it is wrong for Jillo to say these things about JTC then it is just as wrong for Jackie to do the same.

It goes both ways.

Well, of course she did, and rick engages in such all the time. But, remember, they are different. Neither of them hold themselves to the high standards they seem to expect of others.

 

[jillio]

U do not know nothing about JTC as I do. I put in some words for others here on ADS to be aware of JTC. I am trashing this place for damaged me greatly. I will never forgive them ever. I would love to have my mother to share her experience about JTC with u and others but she is finished fighting.

There you go rick. Jazzy has the personal experience you are looking for, but I suppose you will discount this experience, too, simply because it is deaf experience.

 

[jillio]

Iam sorry that u had to go thru all that as a child. Jackie says it is not the same but once a institution has done damage to numerous of deaf children in the past, it is hard for deaf people to trust them again.

I was talking to my friend the other day who knew the teacher from that awful deaf program at the public school in AZ where I worked as an aide. She told me that teacher had her training from a JTC outreach program for teachers and I was like OMG! In another post, I described how she forced all the deaf students to use oral language even though more than half of them were unable to communicate using oral language alone. I remember she made a comment that turned me off...She told me that "the kids don't need to do whatever they do with their hands." I wanted to smack her but I could go to jail. The point is her views were on the verge of being abusive by yelling and punishing the kids for using sign language and that was in 1998!

It wud make sense since she got her training from JTC over 20 years ago and many of u have said it was so bad back then. No wonder.

That teacher that I worked with needs to be barred from deaf ed. I quit after 4 months there cuz it was so horrible! No respect for the deaf kids at all at that school. The special ed coordinator knew zilch about deaf ed so that was why the program was the worst I have ever seen.

Jazzy, I too am sorry that you had to go through that horrible situation. And I will continue to voice, with my dying breath, the harm that programs such as these strict oral porgrams do to deaf children. The kids are worth the battle.

 

[SJCSue]

Didn't Jackie do the exact same thing about children who go to Riverside school for the deaf and the school itself? If it is wrong for Jillo to say these things about JTC then it is just as wrong for Jackie to do the same.

It goes both ways.

 

[jillio]

Iam sorry that u had to go thru all that as a child. Jackie says it is not the same but once a institution has done damage to numerous of deaf children in the past, it is hard for deaf people to trust them again.

I was talking to my friend the other day who knew the teacher from that awful deaf program at the public school in AZ where I worked as an aide. She told me that teacher had her training from a JTC outreach program for teachers and I was like OMG! In another post, I described how she forced all the deaf students to use oral language even though more than half of them were unable to communicate using oral language alone. I remember she made a comment that turned me off...She told me that "the kids don't need to do whatever they do with their hands." I wanted to smack her but I could go to jail. The point is her views were on the verge of being abusive by yelling and punishing the kids for using sign language and that was in 1998!

It wud make sense since she got her training from JTC over 20 years ago and many of u have said it was so bad back then. No wonder.

That teacher that I worked with needs to be barred from deaf ed. I quit after 4 months there cuz it was so horrible! No respect for the deaf kids at all at that school. The special ed coordinator knew zilch about deaf ed so that was why the program was the worst I have ever seen.

You know what really bothers me? That the oralists can hear these stories and experiences of the harm that a strictly oral approach does, and then continue to support it. Are they incapable of independent thinking, or does the pral philiosphy turn them into sheep that just follow along?

 

[rick48]

Oh, and you have visited JTC? You have direct knowledge from personal experience? Do you even have any second hand knowledge of JTC? Did you even hear of it prior to coming in to jackie's post.

Her training was at JTC, and judging from some of her posts, it would tell any thinking person exactly what they need to know. They turn out robotic thinking, unskilled, and ill qualified teachers of the deaf.

When have you ever bothered to make sure that you have information prior to shooting off your mouth?

My personal experience as to JTC comes from their wonderful home correspondence course that we used with our daughter when she was first diagnosed as being deaf. So yes I do and you have none.

Your continued personal attacks on Jackie are indicative of someone who would equate a hackey sack with CART services: an opinionated and biased blowhard.

goodnite HSQ.

 

[rick48]

Got as copy of that? Frankly, rick, I don't trust anything you have to say. You have already proven the nature of your character, and it does not inspire trust. BTW, are you a used car salesman?

Of course I have a copy, so what was it? Were you lying or was St. Rita's or perhaps both?

No, I am not a used car salesman, I am a hackey sack salesman though. Can I get an order from you for a dozen for your incoming students?

 

[deafdyke]

jackie and rick,
While there are SOME oral places and teachers that promote oral abilty as more of another tool in the toolbox, there's STILL a LOT of places and people who still have that "oh Sign is a crutch" or "oral language is the best" mentality.
And Jackie it does not surprise me that you see JTC and other oral insistutions as wonderful. That is because you have a biased view. You really honestly don't understand the emotional impact that an oral only way can have on dhh kids.

This one's a better article, something you have no knowledge or experience in, do you, Cloggy?

Cloggy....Twenty four years ago my parents almost decided to pursue Sign and Deaf culture and all that for me. They listened to the experts who said I didn't need it. Yes, it may have been over twenty years ago............but the downsides still haven't changed. Sooner or later you'll start to realize that maybe you should have listened to us. We're not saying "Oh just do ASL only...........oral skills suck." ....We're just saying that being orally skilled does not mean total and complete access to the hearing world. Hey, even UNILATERALLY dhh folks don't always feel totally hearing, or experiance the downsides of oral only (eg localizing sound, conversations in noisy situtions etc)

 

[jillio]

My personal experience as to JTC comes from their wonderful home correspondence course that we used with our daughter when she was first diagnosed as being deaf. So yes I do and you have none.

Your continued personal attacks on Jackie are indicative of someone who would equate a hackey sack with CART services: an opinionated and biased blowhard.

goodnite HSQ.

so there you go.......a correspondance course on oral languge techniques for deaf children. And got news for your, rick, I received the information from them regarding my son when he was diagnosed. Difference between us is, I read what they had to say, and immedictely saw it for propoganda, and nothing more than an ethnocentric attempt to mask a child's deafness. Their entire focus is on how a child communicates. In the process, they don't give a rat's ass if that child is able to communicate effectively. JTC would rather turn out students who have less than adequate oral skills that to expose them to sign so that they increase their ability to use language and become literate.

And the fact that you refuse to accept a widely used and useful way to add visual components to spoken language to improve the functioning of a deaf student is indication aplenty that you have no idea what you are talking about. You know, jackie's thread is being discussed in other forums, as well, and I can tell you that your opinion is definately in the minority.

 

[jillio]

Of course I have a copy, so what was it? Were you lying or was St. Rita's or perhaps both?

No, I am not a used car salesman, I am a hackey sack salesman though. Can I get an order from you for a dozen for your incoming students?

Can you also produce that copy? If not, stop running your mouth about it. Your credibility is shot. If you want to be believed, give us all something believable.

I wouldn't order a rat's ass from you, and I doubt seriously that you sell hackey sacks, becasue you are so opposed to technigues that actully benefit a deaf student. I would think you would object to the very existence of a hackey sack simply because it has proven useful to deaf students, workers, and families in group therapy. What is your problem? Don't want anyone to use anything other than a strictly oral technique? You need to change your screen name to A.G. Bell.

And why don't you see if you can stick to the topic. We are discussing deaf education. If the topic is over your head, perhaps you can find another topic to rant and rave in.

 

[shel90]

Can you also produce that copy? If not, stop running your mouth about it. Your credibility is shot. If you want to be believed, give us all something believable.

I wouldn't order a rat's ass from you, and I doubt seriously that you sell hackey sacks, becasue you are so opposed to technigues that actully benefit a deaf student. I would think you would object to the very existence of a hackey sack simply because it has proven useful to deaf students, workers, and families in group therapy. What is your problem? Don't want anyone to use anything other than a strictly oral technique? You need to change your screen name to A.G. Bell.

And why don't you see if you can stick to the topic. We are discussing deaf education. If the topic is over your head, perhaps you can find another topic to rant and rave in.

LOL! AG Bell screenname!

Is JTC still training their teachers that the idea of signing will interfere with speech skills development? If so, that is really sad because so many deaf people suffered from that view. Maybe not Rick or Jackie's kids but numerous have. If they can't believe that then they r calling me and many others liars when we shared out personal experiences of suffering from that view.

 

[jillio]

LOL! AG Bell screenname!

Is JTC still training their teachers that the idea of signing will interfere with speech skills development? If so, that is really sad because so many deaf people suffered from that view. Maybe not Rick or Jackie's kids but numerous have. If they can't believe that then they r calling me and many others liars when we shared out personal experiences of suffering from that view.

Yes, they are still espousing the view that a child should not be introduced to sign language until they have not been able to develop oral skills, because the child will learn to rely on the easier (sign) language. And that is one of my biggest complaints, shel. That they are so intent on making every deaf child a reasonable facsimile of a heaqring child that they refuse to see the harm that they do to the very people they claim to be helping.

 

[rick48]

You know, jackie's thread is being discussed in other forums, as well, and I can tell you that your opinion is definately in the minority.

Wow! Now ask me if I care.

 

[jillio]

Wow! Now ask me if I care.

Well, of course you don't care, because you have no interest in facts. Or in learning anything that might require you to think.

 

[rick48]

Can you also produce that copy? If not, stop running your mouth about it. Your credibility is shot. If you want to be believed, give us all something believable."


Got it, of course I do. How else would I know what bank they use? So what is it HSQ were you lying or was St. rita's?


"I wouldn't order a rat's ass from you, and I doubt seriously that you sell hackey sacks,..."

Actually, I am an importer/exporter of Hackey Sacks. Perhaps you heard of my company, Vandelay Associates?


"What is your problem? Don't want anyone to use anything other than a strictly oral technique? You need to change your screen name to A.G. Bell."

Check my posts Jillio and you will see that I always urge parents to find the method or methods that are best for their child.

"And why don't you see if you can stick to the topic. We are discussing deaf education. If the topic is over your head, perhaps you can find another topic to rant and rave in.

Believe me honey, nothing you post is over my head.

 

[rick48]

Yes, they are still espousing the view that a child should not be introduced to sign language until they have not been able to develop oral skills, because the child will learn to rely on the easier (sign) language. And that is one of my biggest complaints, shel. That they are so intent on making every deaf child a reasonable facsimile of a heaqring child that they refuse to see the harm that they do to the very people they claim to be helping.

I know you need your sycophant to toss you softballs but HSQ, please show me one post wherein I said a child should not be introduced to sign language until they have not been able to develop oral skills, because the child will learn to rely on the easier (sign) language.

go ahead now run along and find me one post, is that too much for you to actually back up your statements?

 

[rick48]

Well, of course you don't care, because you have no interest in facts. Or in learning anything that might require you to think.

ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ

 

[jillio]

Believe me honey, nothing you post is over my head.

Then why is it, dear, that you cannot refrain from attempts to divert it through sarcasm and insults?