District files appeal against deaf student

[shel90]

Shel I think you are right. When I asked for CART for my daughter, the d/hh teacher did not know how CART was used. I had to explain to her. She also could not understand that my children are able to talk on our home phone and a cell phone. I spent a lot of time explaining these issues to her. She is a certified teacher of deaf and received her training at Cal State Northridge. Then the school said that I was refusing services from her. I had to explain to them that every time my children are pulled from their class, they are missing information and that I would make sure to work with them at home. And that I am a fully credential teacher of the deaf.

I wasnt referring to teachers who have certification or degrees in deaf ed...talking about the regular ed or special ed teachers who have NO training in deaf ed. Too many times teachers with degrees in special ed claim to know what's best for deaf children and too often they have no clue..ha!

 

[jackiesolorzano]

That's how I see the BiBi approach being very useful...sign language for developing abstract thoughts and concepts for higher literacy skills and spoken language to help with English and communication skills with the general population. Nothing wrong with having oral skills..just the receptive skills is where most deaf/hoh children struggle with and that's where a visual language can be helpful in. To me, it is having the best of both. I know that it is not offered in CA...wish it was..my brother is fighting to have it approved in AZ. It is hard but it can be done.

That's just how I see it..cuz I dont see another way of tackling the low literacy rates of many deaf/hoh children unless there is a cure to make all of us hearing but that would make the world boring. Just kidding.

Shel, I guess that is where we will just disagree. And that is OK. I know oralism has worked well for my children but I know it is because of what we do at home. Knowing who I am I know, I know that if we would have choosen signing, my kids would probable be at the same level that they are now because we would have embraced signing and done everything we could to see our children succeed. The one advantage that I see with oral language it just gives my children more opportunties. I know though that oralism is not for everyone. And I can see your point. I am so happy that my children are able to read and write at their grade level or very close to it. Just because I think my kids are very successful with oral language, I know they are deaf and miss information.

 

[jackiesolorzano]

I wasnt referring to teachers who have certification or degrees in deaf ed...talking about the regular ed or special ed teachers who have NO training in deaf ed. Too many times teachers with degrees in special ed claim to know what's best for deaf children and too often they have no clue..ha!

Yeah you are right.

 

[pek1]

I'm impressed, Pete. I did live inthe south for several years, and picked up a bit of that accent..it is combined with my native midwestern accent...and that raspy quality is something I have had since I was a child....but I am also a light smoker! I've vowed to quit as soon as I finish school! And the only accent I picked up on was the very full rounded "o" typical of Minnesota.

 

[jillio]

That's how I see the BiBi approach being very useful...sign language for developing abstract thoughts and concepts for higher literacy skills and spoken language to help with English and communication skills with the general population. Nothing wrong with having oral skills..just the receptive skills is where most deaf/hoh children struggle with and that's where a visual language can be helpful in. To me, it is having the best of both. I know that it is not offered in CA...wish it was..my brother is fighting to have it approved in AZ. It is hard but it can be done.

That's just how I see it..cuz I dont see another way of tackling the low literacy rates of many deaf/hoh children unless there is a cure to make all of us hearing but that would make the world boring. Just kidding.

BINGO!

 

[jillio]

Shel, I guess that is where we will just disagree. And that is OK. I know oralism has worked well for my children but I know it is because of what we do at home. Knowing who I am I know, I know that if we would have choosen signing, my kids would probable be at the same level that they are now because we would have embraced signing and done everything we could to see our children succeed. The one advantage that I see with oral language it just gives my children more opportunties. I know though that oralism is not for everyone. And I can see your point. I am so happy that my children are able to read and write at their grade level or very close to it. Just because I think my kids are very successful with oral language, I know they are deaf and miss information.

The opportunity clause is one that I hear parents who have chosen the oral method us over and over to justify their choices. Exactly what opportunities are you speaking of?

I just don't understand this. If you know they are deaf and miss information, why is it not important to provide communication that will allow them to get that information?

 

[jillio]

Shel I think you are right. When I asked for CART for my daughter, the d/hh teacher did not know how CART was used. I had to explain to her. She also could not understand that my children are able to talk on our home phone and a cell phone. I spent a lot of time explaining these issues to her. She is a certified teacher of deaf and received her training at Cal State Northridge. Then the school said that I was refusing services from her. I had to explain to them that every time my children are pulled from their class, they are missing information and that I would make sure to work with them at home. And that I am a fully credential teacher of the deaf.

Why in the world is she teaching d/hh students if she isn't even aware of the services available?

 

[jillio]

Jillo I have to agree with you there parents have to learn how to manipulate the system to the advantage of their child. I have had this talk with our attorney where he has told me that if I stop what we are doing at home we can prove easier that my daughter needs more help at school. But as her mother I cannot set her up to fail. I have to do everything in my power to help her succeed at school.

No one says you should set her up to fail. But, just as your attorney has pointed out, don't you see where your attitude has contributed to the situation you are currently experiencing? You have made it easy for the school system to deny services.

 

[jackiesolorzano]

[/B]
The opportunity clause is one that I hear parents who have chosen the oral method us over and over to justify their choices. Exactly what opportunities are you speaking of?

I just don't understand this. If you know they are deaf and miss information, why is it not important to provide communication that will allow them to get that information?

The main point I mean by this is that they will have more job opportunties if they are able to be oral

 

[jackiesolorzano]

Why in the world is she teaching d/hh students if she isn't even aware of the services available?

She has been teaching over 20 or 30 years. She was trained to work with kids that sign but that is not what she is doing. She only works with kids that are mainstream in their local schools. She has told me that she focuses on her hard of hearing students because the only deaf students she has on her caseload are my children and a friend of my daughter.

 

[shel90]

The main point I mean by this is that they will have more job opportunties if they are able to be oral

The view on deaf people in general must be different in California than here on the East coast cuz many deaf people who dont have excellent oral skills have good jobs here. In fact, many of them work at IBM in NYC as computer engineers and I know a feew of them dont have any speech skills...I guess California's view is so outdated.

 

[jillio]

She has been teaching over 20 or 30 years. She was trained to work with kids that sign but that is not what she is doing. She only works with kids that are mainstream in their local schools. She has told me that she focuses on her hard of hearing students because the only deaf students she has on her caseload are my children and a friend of my daughter.

Signing students use CART, too.

 

[jillio]

The view on deaf people in general must be different in California than here on the East coast cuz many deaf people who dont have excellent oral skills have good jobs here. In fact, many of them work at IBM in NYC as computer engineers and I know a feew of them dont have any speech skills...I guess California's view is so outdated.

I guess. My son has had a job since he was 16 and continues to work while he is in college--only part time, but still employed. And of my deaf students, one (the one who provided me with the poem from another thread) works in Human Resources at the VA, one works for the Dept. of Transportation, another works for a computer services company, etc.etc. But all are gainfully employed AND attending college.

 

[jackiesolorzano]

The view on deaf people in general must be different in California than here on the East coast cuz many deaf people who dont have excellent oral skills have good jobs here. In fact, many of them work at IBM in NYC as computer engineers and I know a feew of them dont have any speech skills...I guess California's view is so outdated.

I really don't know about how outdated California is but I was under the impression that unless a company has over a certain amount of employees then they do not have to provide an interpeter.

 

[jillio]

I really don't know about how outdated California is but I was under the impression that unless a company has over a certain amount of employees then they do not have to provide an interpeter.

And.....?

 

[jackiesolorzano]

Signing students use CART, too.

I know that. That is why I am very excited that once we have everything settle with my daughter, other parents of just signing kids will be able to use CART.
What I meant by this teacher is that she recieved her training some 20 or 30 years ago. For the past 15 years she has just been working with hard of hearing kids and has not stay on top of all the changes in education.

 

[jackiesolorzano]

And.....?

So if a company does not have to provide an interpeter it makes it hardier for a signing kid to get a job whereas if my daughter wanted to work for a small company she would be able to because she does not need an interpeter to communicate with her co-workers and boss.

 

[shel90]

So if a company does not have to provide an interpeter it makes it hardier for a signing kid to get a job whereas if my daughter wanted to work for a small company she would be able to because she does not need an interpeter to communicate with her co-workers and boss.

I grew up orally and still need a terp to communicate with hearing people for important information relating to my children, or jobs cuz I want to ensure that I wont misunderstand them or miss out on anything. Also, I noticed many hearing people who dont have experience working with deaf people dont have a lot of patience to work harder to listen to my speech since I dont speak clearly at some times. I always tell them to let me know if they dont understand me pls let me know and they still dont do it...just nod their heads and their behavior becomes rigid like they are in a hurry for me to finish talking. How is that providing me opportunities in the hearing world if they react to me like that despite my good oral skills. Nope they are not perfect but I was told by many people that I speak well so if that's the case then why that kind of attitude?

 

[jillio]

I know that. That is why I am very excited that once we have everything settle with my daughter, other parents of just signing kids will be able to use CART.
What I meant by this teacher is that she recieved her training some 20 or 30 years ago. For the past 15 years she has just been working with hard of hearing kids and has not stay on top of all the changes in education.

She isn't required to do in-service?

And believe it or not, it is easier to get CART for signers than for oral students for the reasons I have cited previously.

 

[jillio]

So if a company does not have to provide an interpeter it makes it hardier for a signing kid to get a job whereas if my daughter wanted to work for a small company she would be able to because she does not need an interpeter to communicate with her co-workers and boss.

They don't ahve to provide other accommodations, either. Think they would be willing to provide CART for staff meetings? The environment in a staff meeting is very similar to the classroom environment.