Different types of lies

[The Heretic]

Pearls before swine...

You know, Heretic made a valid point with circumstances making it vital to lie. Ex. Would you tell the German soldiers truth that you are hiding Jewish folk from them? Would that qualify as a sin to lie to the German soldiers?

You are a glutton for punishment, Liza!

If Reba refuses to lie to the soldiers to save the life of the jewish refugees, she is a good Christian. A monster, perhaps, but a devout and faithful Christian who refuses to lie, even to save the lives of others, for lying is such a sinful thing, and who would want to go to hell? However, if she has a conscience and lies for the sake of their lives... Well that kinda ruins her High-Faultin' speech, now, doesn't it?

Seriously, the christian view of telling the truth and lying is far too black and white, and does nothing but empower people to judge others according to artificial standards. Honesty is striking a good balance, a golden mean, between secrecy and telling way too much truth, and this is decidedly superior to a myopic view of truth and lies.

After all, the most common lies are the ones we tell ourselves, for the lies we tell others are few and far between.

 

[FeistyChick]

most of you of you guys made VALID POINTS!!!

i know everyone tells lies!!! mainly WHITE LIES/FIBS THOUGH... I KNOW most of us do!!! but a lot of those out there tell BAD LIES and i REALLY DETEST THOSE!!! i just hate THOSE REAL LIARS!!! i just can't LIE LIKE THAT... don't ask me why... i just can't...

i don't see anything wrong with TELLING FIBS sometimes.. like my mom always says.. "WHAT SHE DOESN'T KNOW, WON'T HURT HER"...

the reason why i am saying this is because .. yes it is not always ok to tell fibs but sometimes it is REALLY NECESSARY!! .. like for instance... my gramma, when she was alive.. she was a very nervous woman... i mean every little thing got her very nervous.. so if you told her anything negative, she would get palpitations (sp?)/anxiety attacks that would lead to heart attacks!!! I AM NOT KIDDING!!! so we HAD TO LIE TO HER TO AVOID THIS! like for an example, if my sister got into an accident or something... we wouldn't tell her, we would say oh she is fine, blah blah, she is just not feeling well and can't come, etc... or umm one time my uncle (her middle son had a mild heart attack) ofc we NEVER TOLD HER!!! otherwise she would have FREAKED OUT!!! so what i mean is... sometimes it is necessary to tell fibs in delicate situations like this THIS IS MY TWO CENTS AND FEELINGS, you don't have to agree with me

so like i said "WHAT SHE/HE DOESN'T KNOW WON'T HURT THEM"

BUT REAL LIARS??? FORGET IT!!! :rl:

 

[Liza]

Phfft. Likewise, Heretic, Likewise.

I hate to say this, but I think you're right in that order that we do subscribe to certain illusions through the guise of lies, while their value is open to debate as we may agree on this given the examples of the Nazi soldier and just lying about a stack of porn magazines.

Now you've piqued my curiousity - what common lies do you feel that we feed ourselves? Punish away.

You are a glutton for punishment, Liza!

If Reba refuses to lie to the soldiers to save the life of the jewish refugees, she is a good Christian. A monster, perhaps, but a devout and faithful Christian who refuses to lie, even to save the lives of others, for lying is such a sinful thing, and who would want to go to hell? However, if she has a conscience and lies for the sake of their lives... Well that kinda ruins her High-Faultin' speech, now, doesn't it?

Seriously, the christian view of telling the truth and lying is far too black and white, and does nothing but empower people to judge others according to artificial standards. Honesty is striking a good balance, a golden mean, between secrecy and telling way too much truth, and this is decidedly superior to a myopic view of truth and lies.

After all, the most common lies are the ones we tell ourselves, for the lies we tell others are few and far between.

 

[Liza]

Yeah, you're right, FC

Another example is that I don't let it be known to my divorced parents that I still keep in touch with each other - because they have proven in the past to put me in a very uncomforable position with that knowledge. Can you say middleman needing the sin of omission?

most of you of you guys made VALID POINTS!!!

i know everyone tells lies!!! mainly WHITE LIES/FIBS... I KNOW most of us do!!! but a lot of those out there tell BAD LIES and i REALLY DETEST THOSE!!! i just hate THOSE REAL LIARS!!! i just can't LIE LIKE THAT... don't ask me why... i just can't...

i don't see anything wrong with TELLING FIBS sometimes.. like my mom always says.. "WHAT SHE DOESN'T KNOW, WON'T HURT HER"...

the reason why i am saying this is because .. yes it is not always ok to tell fibs but sometimes it is REALLY NECESSARY!! .. like for instance... my gramma, when she was alive.. she was a very nervous woman... i mean every little thing got her very nervous.. so if you told her anything negative, she would get palpitations (sp?)/anxiety attacks that would lead to heart attacks!!! I AM NOT KIDDING!!! so we HAD TO LIE TO HER TO AVOID THIS! like for an example, if my sister got into an accident or something... we wouldn't tell her, we would say oh she is fine, blah blah, she is just not feeling well and can't come, etc... or umm one time my uncle (her middle son had a mild heart attack) ofc we NEVER TOLD HER!!! otherwise she would have FREAKED OUT!!! so what i mean is... sometimes it is necessary to tell fibs in delicate situations like this THIS IS MY TWO CENTS AND FEELINGS, you don't have to agree with me

so like i said "WHAT SHE/HE DOESN'T KNOW WON'T HURT THEM"

BUT REAL LIARS??? FORGET IT!!! :rl:

 

[FeistyChick]

Yeah, you're right, FC

Another example is that I don't let it be known to my divorced parents that I still keep in touch with each other - because they have proven in the past to put me in a very uncomforable position with that knowledge. Can you say middleman needing the sin of omission?

<---- what does this saying mean???

are you saying that you don't tell your parents that you keep in touch with them? like you don't tell your dad that you keep in touch with your mom and you don't tell your mom that you keep in touch with your dad???

 

[Liza]

<---- what does this saying mean???

are you saying that you don't tell your parents that you keep in touch with them? like you don't tell your dad that you keep in touch with your mom and you don't tell your mom that you keep in touch with your dad???

It was a messy divorce, and my parents hated to talk with one another directly so they used me to relay messages by email.. and I would get some biting comments that I would "edit" out of the messages. My mom lives in Hawaii and my father is in Florida. Right now, I've had a close call with mom.. I told her for 2nd time to not talk with me about my father, so I just gave her his new email address and told her to talk to him directly. Something about alimony from retirement settlement. No child likes to hear that sort of thing, you know? So with omission, I am not admitting that I keep in touch with either... so I won't have to endure their biting comments about each other, and it just hurts me because I do love both of them. I am loyal to both.. just not the way they think I should be loyal. Makes sense?

 

[FeistyChick]

It was a messy divorce, and my parents hated to talk with one another directly so they used me to relay messages by email.. and I would get some biting comments that I would "edit" out of the messages. My mom lives in Hawaii and my father is in Florida. Right now, I've had a close call with mom.. I told her for 2nd time to not talk with me about my father, so I just gave her his new email address and told her to talk to him directly. Something about alimony from retirement settlement. No child likes to hear that sort of thing, you know? So with omission, I am not admitting that I keep in touch with either... so I won't have to endure their biting comments about each other, and it just hurts me because I do love both of them. I am loyal to both.. just not the way they think I should be loyal. Makes sense?

OMFG!!! they put you in the middle!!! sheesh!!
my parents did the same thing too... but not anymore... now they are civil! WHEW!!! recently they were at a luncheon and able to just talk and be friendly for our sakes! (my dad is remarried and my mom had a common law husband) so it is a lot better than 25 yrs ago! THANK GOD!!! YOU POOR THING! we can share notes if you like

EDIT: it was a VERY MESSY/BITTER divorce too!!!

 

[Liza]

OMFG!!! they put you in the middle!!! sheesh!!
my parents did the same thing too... but not anymore... now they are civil! WHEW!!! recently they were at a luncheon and able to just talk and be friendly for our sakes! (my dad is remarried and my mom had a common law husband) so it is a lot better than 25 yrs ago! THANK GOD!!! YOU POOR THING! we can share notes if you like

EDIT: it was a VERY MESSY/BITTER divorce too!!!

Wow that's awful it was bad for you as well. We can talk somewhere else, and I'm afraid to go off topic now

Okay.. back to the program! :P

*ahem* Yeah, so you know why omission isn't that bad for me when it comes to my parents.

 

[Liebling:-)))]

Do you mean at age 13 your hubby didn't know that smoking, and hiding the evidence in his pocket were wrong, and that was the first time in his life that his parents said don't smoke? If he didn't know it was wrong, why did he try to hide it?

That still did not excuse him from smoking, lying, and looking at porn.

A good human who lies and reads porno without guilt...

Hmmm...I guess if there are "reasons" for lying, then there are "reasons" for reading porno. If it is wrong to feed garbage to children's bodies, why is it OK to feed garbage to children's spirits and minds?

A lot of teenagers experimented anything curiously. Do you expect the kids should never have any mistakes in their life?

Of course I’m one of them who is guilty of experimented with cigarettes, alcohol, liar and read the porno. It doesnt mean that I addict smoking, alcohol or become whore/Queen Porno but curiously. :roll:

That is describing parents not checking the kids' rooms.

Well, it makes no difference.

Example: I began to notice something wrong with my eldest son’s behavior when he was 6 months old. The Physician insured me to not worry – it’s just hyperactive. I had hard time with him so I check with the Physician again but he said the same and insured me to wait until he goes to Kindergarten. It’s Kindergarten who suspect that my son had ADD so I went to other Physician for second opinion. He confirmed thru my Question & Answer form that Danny had ADD. We work together with therapists without put him drugs for over 2 and half years but change his diets, improve movement etc. It shows no ADD on him since he was 8 years old. Sure, he might still ADD but it doesn’t show anymore for long time now. Thanks to kindergarten/teacher’s/therapist tips.
The parents can say the different thru the behavior of their children only if they didn’t neglect to recognize their behavior. It would work success only if you consider your children’s behavior/interest then work on it and help your children to develop during early age before puberty time comes.

I’m not go to check their rooms without my children's knowledge but only if I clean their rooms with my children’s knowledge. Their trust & respect to me is most important.

Perhaps they talked to their kids and the kids decided to follow their mates instead of their parents.

Could be but important is control children's behavior then you will tell.

Perhaps the parents trusted the kids and didn't check their rooms.

Perhaps the parents neglect to clean their children’s room and neglect to wash and clean their children’s clothes to put them to their cupboard & drawer where they can find by coincidence?

I am not saying that you have to "scream" at your kids. You can confront them in a calm way.

No I would not confront my young adult with those harmless things but respect their privacy. Depend what I saw something what I don’t like by coincidence then I would not confront my young adult but ask them what’s this/that? Let them answer……… sit and talk with them………….. in calmly way.

I didn't say to "spy" on them to satisfy curiousity. I think you should be honest and straightforward and let them know that it is your house, and that you will check for contraband. That is not spying because you give them that warning. That is not sneaky.

I think I already answered in my previous post that I let my children know that I tidy their room.
Yes, I consider it as spying ("checking" is the same way as spying) their privacy things to satisfy curiously without let children know. It’s not spying when you let your children know that you are going to doing their rooms to clean/tidy etc. This is difference.

All what I limit my children to respect my rules because they live in my house but this rooms they used for sleep etc is THEIR rooms.

If the kids are so trustworthy and honest, what are they "hiding"?

I see nothing wrong that the children want to use their privacy sometimes and need to be alone to write, reading, phone etc. Do you expect your children to share EVERYTHING with you all the times? All what I do is respect their privacy as long as I trust them as they trust me. It’s important that they know my concern for their safety. They know that I'm alway be there for them.

Kids earn that trust by behaving in a trustworthy way; they don't hide things and they don't lie.

Depend on parent’s form of behavior and discipline to turn their children behavior. This is a simple. If you want to make your children into honest person then do with discipline in gentle way.

Amazing! I know that children have that attitude but I never before heard of an adult saying that. Do you have that same philosophy for your own children?

It depends on the person who asking in kind of tone to get an answer back from other person. It won’t work if a person made angry tone to shout/scream/yell/attack to get an answer back from other person. It would be work if a person ask other person in nice tone in calmly way to get an answer back from other person.

Sigh...I just don't understand how teaching a child to lie by a parent's example is showing "respect". It seems more like teaching them rebellion and deception.

For you, lying is sinful is number one than anything but for me is share respect, trust and protect is number one than anything because they can share their respect, trust and protection with me in return. All what you worry about a little and harmless lie? :roll:
I am expecting your answer on Lisa’s and The Heretic’s posts either lying is sinful for you most important than protect Jewish refugee’s life or what?

Of course I’m guilty of tell lie, experiment with smoking, alcohol, and read the porno when I was a teenager. Am I a bad person or what? Look at me… I’m good person and good mother and happily married for 20 years. :roll:

Nobody are prefect :roll:


Like what FC said: Bad lies is a big difference to white and harmless lie. REAL lie is a terrible one.

 

[Liebling:-)))]

Exactly, FeistyChick!

Real liar is a big different. I'm not person who make a REAL lie like this... I can't because I'm tooo honest person but with harmless white lie like what you mention to avoid to upset Granny is a difference.

 

[Maria]

It was a messy divorce, and my parents hated to talk with one another directly so they used me to relay messages by email.. and I would get some biting comments that I would "edit" out of the messages. My mom lives in Hawaii and my father is in Florida. Right now, I've had a close call with mom.. I told her for 2nd time to not talk with me about my father, so I just gave her his new email address and told her to talk to him directly. Something about alimony from retirement settlement. No child likes to hear that sort of thing, you know? So with omission, I am not admitting that I keep in touch with either... so I won't have to endure their biting comments about each other, and it just hurts me because I do love both of them. I am loyal to both.. just not the way they think I should be loyal. Makes sense?

I know that's pretty tough, sweetie. You are not the only one that your goin' through. Many children like yourself had that similiar experience as well. I know it's very hard to be on either side, because they are your parents in despite of "biological" or not ( stepparents, adoptive parents, etc. ) Just show your love to them and be very supportive to them. Sometimes, parents need someone to listen to them when they are ventin' or bickerin'.

I know you are very strong person and be there. One day, you will receive a reward for standin' up good.

 

[Liebling:-)))]

The divorce situation of the parents are horrible one. I had been through like what you did, Liza & FC. Yes, I´m middle between them...


Please go back to topic and stick it.

 

[Maria]

Well, sometimes "lies" makes love blind. It's like makin' love to sleep without recognize anythin'. Lies is like seepin' through under the door to kill the "good" & "positive" package.

Lies is very much like a thorn !

 

[Eve]

Hence, it's better to lie in certain situations. As a result we should never make a practical rule of behavior (telling the truth) universal and necessary.

I can honestly say that if it were a life or death situation, I would certainly lie, or evade the truth as much as possible. But, these situations we are discussing are NOT life or death in nature.

White lies and lies are not same thing. IMHO

What's in a name? That which we call a rose by any other name would smell as sweet.

- William Shakespeare

God does not mind this one.

How do you know?

I think you still DENY being not saying anything...
I bet you're in lying!

No one here has denied that we have made mistakes and lied in the past. That does not condone what we did, nor does it condone any future indiscretions. However, I am far too blunt to be dishonest on a frequent occasion.

Of course not. But I don't try to justify my sins. I call them sins and confess them. I don't try to make excuses for them.

AMEN!

Can you say middleman needing the sin of omission?

I honestly do not recall any scripture referring to omission as a sin. In fact, as I said before, I would rather avoid a certain topic rather than feel the need to lie about it.

On another note, I am really not up to reading long winded posts today, so I will leave that completely up to Reba since we seem to have the same responses anyway I will simply reply to the less time consuming posts for now.

 

[jazzy]

How do you know?
QUOTE]


How do u know God do mind?

 

[Liebling:-)))]

I can honestly say that if it were a life or death situation, I would certainly lie, or evade the truth as much as possible. But, these situations we are discussing are NOT life or death in nature. But, these situations we are discussing are NOT life or death in nature

Like what I say before that anyone have to tell lie for many reasons, not matter what.

 

[Eve]

How do u know God do mind?

Joshua 24:14 - Now therefore fear the LORD, and serve him in sincerity and in truth…

1 Kings 2:4 - That the LORD may continue his word which he spake concerning me, saying, If thy children take heed to their way, to walk before me in truth with all their heart and with all their soul, there shall not fail thee (said he) a man on the throne of Israel.

Psalms 15:2 - He that walketh uprightly, and worketh righteousness, and speaketh the truth in his heart.

Psalms 119:142 - Thy righteousness is an everlasting righteousness, and thy law is the truth.

Psalms 145:18 - The LORD is nigh unto all them that call upon him, to all that call upon him in truth.

Proverbs 3:3 - Let not mercy and truth forsake thee: bind them about thy neck; write them upon the table of thine heart

Proverbs 8:7 - For my mouth shall speak truth; and wickedness is an abomination to my lips.

Proverbs 12:17 - He that speaketh truth sheweth forth righteousness: but a false witness deceit.

Proverbs 12:19 - The lip of truth shall be established for ever: but a lying tongue is but for a moment.

Proverbs 23:23 - Buy the truth, and sell it not; also wisdom, and instruction, and understanding.

Isaiah 26:2 - Open ye the gates, that the righteous nation which keepeth the truth may enter in.

Isaiah 59:4 - None calleth for justice, nor any pleadeth for truth: they trust in vanity, and speak lies; they conceive mischief, and bring forth iniquity.

Isaiah 59:15 - Yea, truth faileth; and he that departeth from evil maketh himself a prey: and the LORD saw it, and it displeased him that there was no judgment.

Jeremiah 4:2 - And thou shalt swear, The LORD liveth, in truth, in judgment, and in righteousness; and the nations shall bless themselves in him, and in him shall they glory.

Jeremiah 7:28 - But thou shalt say unto them, This is a nation that obeyeth not the voice of the LORD their God, nor receiveth correction: truth is perished, and is cut off from their mouth.

Jeremiah 9:3 - And they bend their tongues like their bow for lies: but they are not valiant for the truth upon the earth; for they proceed from evil to evil, and they know not me, saith the LORD.

Jeremiah 9:5 - And they will deceive every one his neighbour, and will not speak the truth: they have taught their tongue to speak lies, and weary themselves to commit iniquity.

Zechariah 8:16 - These are the things that ye shall do; Speak ye every man the truth to his neighbour; execute the judgment of truth and peace in your gates:

Malachi 2:6 - The law of truth was in his mouth, and iniquity was not found in his lips: he walked with me in peace and equity, and did turn many away from iniquity.

John 8:32 - And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.

John 8:44 - Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

John 14:6 - Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

Acts 26:25 - But he said, I am not mad, most noble Festus; but speak forth the words of truth and soberness.

Romans 1:18 - For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;

1 Corinthians 13:6 - Rejoiceth not in iniquity, but rejoiceth in the truth

Ephesians 4:25 - Wherefore putting away lying, speak every man truth with his neighbour: for we are members one of another.

1 Timothy 6:5 - Perverse disputings of men of corrupt minds, and destitute of the truth, supposing that gain is godliness: from such withdraw thyself.

1 John 1:8 - If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

1 John 2:4 - He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

1 John 2:21 - I have not written unto you because ye know not the truth, but because ye know it, and that no lie is of the truth.

3 John 1:4 - I have no greater joy than to hear that my children walk in truth.

Hmmmmm I wonder…WHAT DO YOU THINK?

Oh, and

Galatians 4:16 - Am I therefore become your enemy, because I tell you the truth?

Like what I say before that anyone have to tell lie for many reasons, not matter what.

And like I said, that doesn’t excuse the lie. Best just not to make a habit of lying in the first place.

 

[jazzy]

Hmmmmm I wonder…WHAT DO YOU THINK?

Oh, and

And like I said, that doesn’t excuse the lie. Best just not to make a habit of lying in the first place.

I agree with u on this one not to make habit of it which I do not except for white lie. White lie is to protect ourself from harm by others esp the evildoers.

Would you tell people what you think or feeling about them by being honest even thou those your own truth (not God's) may harm them?

Would you tell nazi a truth where u hide jews and knowing they will die in hand of nazi. Obey God's word by telling truth or obey God's one of commandment, shall not kill?

Then I remember Jesus' most important commandment of all Love God with all your heart, love yourself with all your heart and love your neighbors with all your heart. If you follow it daily then there is no reason for u to be a liar. But we all are sinners, we are not 100 percent perfect so therefore God make us all liars whatever we tried to do our best by being honest all the time. God will test us time to time to see if we are following it but we still are sinner so we will fail time to time.

 

[Maria]

Learnin' is a part of life to make a person to become a better person. I totally agree with Eve.

 

[Liebling:-)))]

I'm agree with Jazzy's response post on Eve's post. Like what I said that there're different type of lies but one of type lie is bad/black liar is the worst.

The people who made bad/black liar is a different story like what I mentioned in my previous posts which it's bad.