Designing A Hearing Baby

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jillio said:
I haven't made assumptions, I have made observations based on the anger and disconent demonstrated by the poster. And, a person is a he or a she, not an "it". Unless, of course, you consider those who are deaf to be an "it" rather than having full personhood.

And, I'll thank you not to give me orders. If there is something you would like to request, you can do it in a civil manner.
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BINGO Jill,
I know exaclty what you mean, an "it" is like a 'clever mechanical parrot' that is exactly what hearing people generally perceive of a d/(missed out chanced - Deaf) person is like.

Lack Of personhood has a LOT to do with disablism as well.
 
Cloggy said:
Interesting observation... as allways with such a statement from you based on nothing...
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pardon me if this is 'late', however...

you claim Jillio's observation is based On NOTHING?!

how untrue

Have you ever been to deaf clubs? I bet you haven't. you might have, but I bet still further with very limited experience.

From countless dinner functions at the deaf club and numerous tea/coffee sessions at the local deaf office, it is in my experience that is quite common certain conversations would crop up with this topic, and yes I vouch for Jillio's obersevation. I've observed it too
 
Grummer said:
pardon me if this is 'late', however...

you claim Jillio's observation is based On NOTHING?!

how untrue

Have you ever been to deaf clubs? I bet you haven't. you might have, but I bet still further with very limited experience.

From countless dinner functions at the deaf club and numerous tea/coffee sessions at the local deaf office, it is in my experience that is quite common certain conversations would crop up with this topic, and yes I vouch for Jillio's obersevation. I've observed it too
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I know...isnt it amazing? If only thy knew what many deaf people go thru.
 
rick48 said:
Sorry, but since I know them personally, it is quite true.
Rick
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In a galaxy far, far away..

Rick.. you are totally wrong...
A deaf person that is happy without sign is a freak!
No deaf person, sound of mind, can be happy until he/she learns sign. THAT is the only way to be happy.
If they say they are happy, they are in denial!!!!
If they say they have hearing friends.... they are in denial!!!!

In the mean time, back on earth...
 
Why is it that all you can see in a deaf child is the ability to not hear?
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jillio said:
That is not all I see, cloggy. But quite obviously, it is all you see.
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Sure JT.... I only see the deafness in my child....

Lotte: "Can you hear the birds?" - Jillio: "You cannot hear !"
Lotte: "I can hear the car coming from the right..?" - Jillio: "You cannot possibly hear that, you are deaf!"
Lotte: "They tease me for speaking Dutch!" - Jillio: No, they tease you because you are deaf. You need to accept your deafness!"
Lotte: "I am going to visit my friends." - Jillio: "You should only visit deaf friends."

Lotte: "Dad, grandma on the phone. She wants to talk to you.."
Cloggy: "Cannot come to the phone right now. Can you take the message?"
Lotte: "Sure".... "Hi grandma. How are you doing.?" "Daddy cannot come to the phone right now. Can I help you??"
 
Wow!! Such mature and insightful posts!!!!
 
Cloggy said:
In a galaxy far, far away..

Rick.. you are totally wrong...
A deaf person that is happy without sign is a freak!
No deaf person, sound of mind, can be happy until he/she learns sign. THAT is the only way to be happy.
If they say they are happy, they are in denial!!!!
If they say they have hearing friends.... they are in denial!!!!
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Why are you making fun of us?
 
Angel said:
Why are you making fun of us?
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I don't see it as making fun at all, rather restating a very true feeling that some of us are getting from those who are so against the idea that a child with a CI can be a happy individual.

Bringing sign-language back into the picture, I know sign, I have used it. I no longer use it as a personal choice (no need for it) but that doesn't mean I'm denying my deaf identity (I know that when my CI comes off, I'm still biologically deaf,) and it doesn't mean that I'm trying to fool myself or other people into believing I am something I'm not.

Why not back off Cloggy and let him and his wife, as the PARENTS, make the decisions they feel are in the best interest of Lotte without all the constant bickering and mudslinging? Is it such an alien concept that in this day and age, with the backing of science, the education of parents and teachers, and a better understanding of deafness in the general public, that Lotte will grow up HAPPY,and will discover her own identity -and it doesn't have to be a "deaf" or a "hearing" identity either - it will be a combination of what works best for HER and what makes her happiest. I find it mindblowing that people can look at the picture of an obviously happy, well adjusted child and sit for weeks trying to tear apart reasons why the child should be unhappy, or might be unhappy in the future. The strangest thing is why so many people seem to view Lotte's happiness, and her success at learning language as a threat.
 
jillio said:
Oh, but it is very relevent. Why are you so reluctant to answer the question?
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Oh, but I think not and so as far as I am concerned, the discussion on this point is over. Feel free to carry on by yourself though, it will be interesting to see if you wind up arguing with yourself!
 
neecy said:
I don't see it as making fun at all, rather restating a very true feeling that some of us are getting from those who are so against the idea that a child with a CI can be a happy individual.

Bringing sign-language back into the picture, I know sign, I have used it. I no longer use it as a personal choice (no need for it) but that doesn't mean I'm denying my deaf identity (I know that when my CI comes off, I'm still biologically deaf,) and it doesn't mean that I'm trying to fool myself or other people into believing I am something I'm not.

Why not back off Cloggy and let him and his wife, as the PARENTS, make the decisions they feel are in the best interest of Lotte without all the constant bickering and mudslinging? Is it such an alien concept that in this day and age, with the backing of science, the education of parents and teachers, and a better understanding of deafness in the general public, that Lotte will grow up HAPPY,and will discover her own identity -and it doesn't have to be a "deaf" or a "hearing" identity either - it will be a combination of what works best for HER and what makes her happiest. I find it mindblowing that people can look at the picture of an obviously happy, well adjusted child and sit for weeks trying to tear apart reasons why the child should be unhappy, or might be unhappy in the future. The strangest thing is why so many people seem to view Lotte's happiness, and her success at learning language as a threat.
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:eek2: ... Are you done? good, now before you start attacking me here and making assumptions, please do show me where did I attacked Cloggy about his daughter's implant or his decision? then show me where I said anything about a child with a CI can not be a happy individual Neecy?...
 
Cool it - this thread is close to bursting into flames again.

A question was asked, there is no need to attack the person posting the question. Let the person who was asked the question answer it, and we will go from there.

Remember - do unto others as you would have others do unto you.
 
DreamDeaf said:
Cool it - this thread is close to bursting into flames again.

A question was asked, there is no need to attack the person posting the question. Let the person who was asked the question answer it, and we will go from there.

Remember - do unto others as you would have others do unto you.
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:ty: DreamDeaf....
 
Grummer said:
BINGO Jill,
I know exaclty what you mean, an "it" is like a 'clever mechanical parrot' that is exactly what hearing people generally perceive of a d/(missed out chanced - Deaf) person is like.

Lack Of personhood has a LOT to do with disablism as well.
Click to expand...

Absolutely, grummer. Illustrations abound.
 
Cloggy said:
Sure JT.... I only see the deafness in my child....

Lotte: "Can you hear the birds?" - Jillio: "You cannot hear !"
Lotte: "I can hear the car coming from the right..?" - Jillio: "You cannot possibly hear that, you are deaf!"
Lotte: "They tease me for speaking Dutch!" - Jillio: No, they tease you because you are deaf. You need to accept your deafness!"
Lotte: "I am going to visit my friends." - Jillio: "You should only visit deaf friends."

Lotte: "Dad, grandma on the phone. She wants to talk to you.."
Cloggy: "Cannot come to the phone right now. Can you take the message?"
Lotte: "Sure".... "Hi grandma. How are you doing.?" "Daddy cannot come to the phone right now. Can I help you??"
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Poor cloggy, you are so naive and so concrete. Everything that you have just posted is evidence in an of itself that the only thing you see is ears and mouth. And if you are goingto quote me, I would suggest that you use words that I have posted, not those you have come up with in your imagination. You are completely destroying your credibility.
 
rick48 said:
Oh, but I think not and so as far as I am concerned, the discussion on this point is over. Feel free to carry on by yourself though, it will be interesting to see if you wind up arguing with yourself!
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Your refusal to answer is the only answer anyone here needs. What is it that you are so afraid of?
 
neecy said:
I don't see it as making fun at all, rather restating a very true feeling that some of us are getting from those who are so against the idea that a child with a CI can be a happy individual.

Bringing sign-language back into the picture, I know sign, I have used it. I no longer use it as a personal choice (no need for it) but that doesn't mean I'm denying my deaf identity (I know that when my CI comes off, I'm still biologically deaf,) and it doesn't mean that I'm trying to fool myself or other people into believing I am something I'm not.

Why not back off Cloggy and let him and his wife, as the PARENTS, make the decisions they feel are in the best interest of Lotte without all the constant bickering and mudslinging? Is it such an alien concept that in this day and age, with the backing of science, the education of parents and teachers, and a better understanding of deafness in the general public, that Lotte will grow up HAPPY,and will discover her own identity -and it doesn't have to be a "deaf" or a "hearing" identity either - it will be a combination of what works best for HER and what makes her happiest. I find it mindblowing that people can look at the picture of an obviously happy, well adjusted child and sit for weeks trying to tear apart reasons why the child should be unhappy, or might be unhappy in the future. The strangest thing is why so many people seem to view Lotte's happiness, and her success at learning language as a threat.
Click to expand...

No one here has ever said that a child with a CI cannot be a happy individual.
 
hmmm Jill,
"No one here has ever said that a child with a CI cannot be a happy individual."

I'd be careful saying that, inconsistency weaken the arguement and its of course DARE I say it, there's always a 'but'....for happiness.

It is only a matter of time, for change, since happiness is not eternal as it is can not be a static description to describe a person. More so, why should we be concerned if the CI does not affect a person's happiness. We already know why, on the surface, unhappiness stems from being different, and the what we all already know, and need to articulate on this more (this is an entirely another floodgate of discussions).
That the pace of change from childhood to teenagehood to adulthood in respect of keeping up with the cohorts, as well as how 'genuine' are the reciprocality from the cohorts. The struggle to facilitate and experience this inter-relationships with cohorts through the growing stages of life is not without barriers and nor without stigma and marginalisation.

These aspects leads to unhappiness, History repeats itself.
Afterall, itsn't that what we trying to help others to be aware of ?

Of course you are concerned for the unhappiness, it will happen, Lotte maybe be 'happy' now and is *lucky* to be in a *nice* background with affluent parents, but this only goes so far.
 
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