Declaration of Occupy Wall Street

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DeafCaroline said:
responding to what TXGolder said "And he is standing toe to toe with police and saluting them.....I am sure he is just trying to clarify things."

And secondly, he took his hands out of his pockets long before the beating started.

Current Tv posted a video of the beating on youtube - the police brutality was truly out of line. this one single guy got beaten up by several armed cops wielding batons. Way way overboard.
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Wow, just saw the tape. That cop was way over the line. I thought all of them would decend on that vet for a few secs there.
 
deafskeptic said:
Wow, just saw the tape. That cop was way over the line. I thought all of them would decend on that vet for a few secs there.
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I don't know how anyone can defend the cops on this one. I watched the whole thing and the beating was completely unjustified for.
 
The main problem with police in this country is that they are not intelligent and lack critical thinking skills, even after training. That's the problem with all the LEO responses to OWS protests. Rather than thinking critically and assessing the situation and how to best preserve everyone's safety--not just their own--they choose brute force and react emotionally. In almost every altercation, it is the police that escalate the intensity and push it to a violent conflict. You can see it in every single video on this thread. The cops are just as angry and combative as the protesters. That is despicable.
 
TXgolfer said:
The law clearly says you have to obey police. He didn't.
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The law clearly stated that you are not required to obey unlawful order. The law clearly stated that excessive force is illegal.

TXgolfer said:
In fact his hands are in his pockets. How are they to know he doesn't have a weapon? Obviously it was a tense situation, you can see the fire burning in the background.
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the situation wasn't revolving around with his hands in his pockets. you can see the cop was yelling at him, pointing - move away or something.

cops should not be chasing after him to gang up on him and then continue beating on him. that is excessive force and that is illegal.
 
Both sides have good points in the case of the veteran, police used excessive force and the people who are told to leave the park are supposed to leave. Why are the police wrong, because it is excessive use of force. Why are the protesters wrong, because the park is not theirs and they are supposed to obey the police.

Honestly, you're not going to stop police brutality or get your point across by getting beat up. It generates sympathy and money but it doesn't change anything.

I think the protesters would get further if they rallied people to vote for someone who will support what (if they can come to agreement) they are protesting instead of causing confrontation. It's like you are asking a woman for a date without telling her what time or day to go on one. It's not enough to just ask for change you have to be specific in what you want.
There is no need to state the obvious that the system is broken, everybody knows it.

The banks and the government are not going to change because you can't change human nature. And, our system is setup in a way to work with human nature which makes trying to change it prohibitive.
 
TheWriteAlex said:
The main problem with police in this country is that they are not intelligent and lack critical thinking skills, even after training. That's the problem with all the LEO responses to OWS protests. Rather than thinking critically and assessing the situation and how to best preserve everyone's safety--not just their own--they choose brute force and react emotionally. In almost every altercation, it is the police that escalate the intensity and push it to a violent conflict. You can see it in every single video on this thread. The cops are just as angry and combative as the protesters. That is despicable.
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I have a serious problem with how OWS conducted itself but majority of OWS protests were lawful and peaceful. I have a much more serious problem with how police conducted itself. They are more combative and violent than OWS. They were beating down non-violent people, illegally pepper spraying, and illegally arresting people protesting in a lawful manner.

How ironic is that?

They should listen to retired Captain Raymond Lewis (whom NYPD arrested) and Hipster Cop for advice on how to intelligently and calmly communicate with OWS to ensure that their protest is done in a lawful, safe manner.

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Anybody who willfully ignored a lawful manner of protest should be arrested but should not be getting a beat down for it because it's illegal and Egyptian.
 
and any cop who unlawfully and/or unsafely conducted oneself against non-violent protestors should be arrested and permanently removed from the job.

Recall this?

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=moD2JnGTToA]PEACEFUL FEMALE PROTESTORS PENNED IN THE STREET AND MACED!- #OccupyWallStreet - YouTube[/ame]

This is the guy who did that.
092611-bologna.jpg


On October 18th, New York Times reported that the Deputy Inspector Bologna was disciplined by losing 10 vacation days after the pepper spraying incident was reviewed by the NYPD Internal Affairs Bureau. According to an official statement by the chief spokesman Paul J. Browne, the investigation determined that Bologna used the pepper spray outside departmental guidelines, which doesn’t allow for its use in “disorder control.”
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and get this....

According to an article in The Guardian[27], Bologna was accused of misconduct in 2004 at the Republican national convention protests for “false arrest and civil rights violations.”
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Why is this fascist officer still wearing a badge that represents law and order while adhering democracy ideal? I do not know but this is a typical corruption in NYPD.
 
Jiro said:
Why is this fascist officer still wearing a badge that represents law and order while adhering democracy ideal? I do not know but this is a typical corruption in NYPD.
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Two Words: Police Union

It's interesting that people who support unions don't understand that this is what supporting unions promotes. Again, it's human nature. The union is not there to protect the public. It's there to protect the cops.
 
Jiro said:
The law clearly stated that you are not required to obey unlawful order. The law clearly stated that excessive force is illegal.
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A) There was no unlawful order.
B) If the vet felt the order was unlawful he would have been better served to address that in court.


the situation wasn't revolving around with his hands in his pockets. you can see the cop was yelling at him, pointing - move away or something.
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So you are a mind reader now? :lol: What you see is a man disobeying the police with his hands in his pockets

cops should not be chasing after him to gang up on him and then continue beating on him
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Chasing?

that is excessive force and that is illegal.
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I don't see anything that is excessive. *shrug*
 
VacationGuy234 said:
Two Words: Police Union

It's interesting that people who support unions don't understand that this is what supporting unions promotes. Again, it's human nature. The union is not there to protect the public. It's there to protect the cops.
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Unions are not there to protect corrupt cops.
 
jillio said:
Unions are not there to protect corrupt cops.
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Unfortunately, that's not true, it's there to protect all cops. And, it's certainly not there to decide who is a bad cop, especially not the ones who pay their dues. Ask anyone who has dealt with trying to get a dead beat worker off a union job, it doesn't happen.

When you create power people use it, it's that simple. People don't get paid money to do the right thing, they get paid money to do what they're told.
 
VacationGuy234 said:
Unfortunately, that's not true, it's there to protect all cops. And, it's certainly not there to decide who is a bad cop, especially not the ones who pay their dues. Ask anyone who has dealt with trying to get a dead beat worker off a union job, it doesn't happen.

When you create power people use it, it's that simple. People don't get paid money to the right thing, they get paid money to do what they're told.
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No, the union is not in place to protect corrupt cops.
 
jillio said:
Riiiight.
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The Mollen Commission report noted that "police unions and fraternal organizations can do much to increase professionalism of our police officers....Unfortunately, based on our own observations and on information received from prosecutors, corruption investigators, and high-ranking police officials, police unions sometimes fuel the insularity that characterizes police culture."191 The report identified a conflict of interest for the unions, which protect the interests of individual officers and promote the larger interests of their members, finding that, ironically, the PBA "does a great disservice to the vast majority of its members who would be happy to see corrupt cops prosecuted for their crimes and removed from their jobs."
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Regarding the PBA's role and the code of silence, the report found that "...past and current prosecutors and Department officials told us in informal interviews that PBA delegates and attorneys help reinforce the code of silence among officers who have committed or witnessed corrupt acts....y advising its members against cooperating with law enforcement authorities, the PBA often acts as a shelter and protector of the corrupt cop rather than as a guardian of the interests of the vast majority of its membership, who are honest police officers
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Shielded from Justice: New York: Unions
 
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