Decision

[deafdyke]

I'm NOT anti speech therapy, either; when it's needed. But, to overly focus on therapies and make "every opportunity a language opportunity"?

Uh, ok.

I'm unfamiliar with Clarke, though, DD.

Clarke School for the Deaf. in Northampton. Even at the upper levels kids have speech therapy THREE TIMES a day!!! I was also reading Train Go Sorry and the (hearing) narrator/author attended Lexington School for the Deaf's preschool in the early seventies. She said something like " Every single mintue my deaf classmates spent on speech and spoken language, I spent learning content"
Even if a little kid has the abilty to learn speech, they still have to concentrate on learning the language, rather then learning about CONTENT!!!!!!!
jillo, and all......are you guys familiar with the Listen-Up site? OMG, that is a prime example of what you guys are talking about. I know the creator of that site, (from a listserv) and one time during a debate, she responded that her son had speech therapy not in formal situtions (ie in a speech therapist's office) but in all sorts of diffferent situtions like at a park or at a fair or whatever.....She was all " My child has FUN!!"
It's still therapy, therapy and even more therapy.....I mean that methodology assumes that kids aren't smart enough to take away lessons from formal speech therapy sessions and apply it in real life.

 

[KarissaMann05]

MODS:

If this thread is in the wrong place, please move it as it's about CI blogs.

Thank you.


I decided tonight to delete the CI blogs I've read over the last few years. The reason being a simple one. I'm pissed off at what I'm reading and I realized that by reading these blasted things, I am secondarily supporting these parents and their methods. In actuality, the more I read about some of these "journeys", the more sickened and angry I get.

I constantly read statements like... "My child works harder than anyone I know. I'm SO proud of him!" And, I think to myself... This poor kid is ONLY in preschool school! Why do you force this kid to work harder than any other four year old when you could have given that child ASL; instead of forcing an oral only environment on your kid?" or... I read about the elementary school child who's had repeated re-implantation due to failure caused by infection, and, I think... "Why don't you just quit already? You are RISKING this child's life, you ditz!"

It sickens me. It saddens me. So, as of now, I'm done with the blogs. Soon as I finish typing this thread, I'm going to my bookmarks and hitting delete. I don't condone perpetual speech therapy, AVT, "working hard" when the child should be out with his or her friends. Parents who plan "Mommy boot camps" and so on...

I apologize if I sound angry. I AM angry. I'm also frustrated. These are children and they should have a childhood. They shouldn't have to work hard to speak. So, on that note... I'm going on my delete fest....

Wow... Good thing that I never visit their blogs...

 

[deafdyke]

jillo, So ultimately a parent directing their child's play could result in codepency issues and all that baggage that entails?
And yes jillo, it does seem like there do seem to be a lot of oral parents who are convinced that Oral Only Will Automaticly Lead to High Acheivement. Like you know those parents who try to get their kids into prestigous preschools b/c they're a feeder school for Harvard?
And Deafbajagirl, although now many kids may not have to go through hours and hours and hours of therapy just to learn ONE word, oral only kids still go through that......I mean so many of them have therapy therapy therapy and not a lot of just being a KID Hell, HEARING kids go through that too sometimes...There is the debate over overprogramming for hearing kids.....one wonders if a lot of the oral sucess isn't actually about a lot of helicopter parents being driven to oral only.

 

[Oceanbreeze]

Clarke School for the Deaf. in Northampton. Even at the upper levels kids have speech therapy THREE TIMES a day!!! I was also reading Train Go Sorry and the (hearing) narrator/author attended Lexington School for the Deaf's preschool in the early seventies. She said something like " Every single mintue my deaf classmates spent on speech and spoken language, I spent learning content"
Even if a little kid has the abilty to learn speech, they still have to concentrate on learning the language, rather then learning about CONTENT!!!!!!!
jillo, and all......are you guys familiar with the Listen-Up site? OMG, that is a prime example of what you guys are talking about. I know the creator of that site, (from a listserv) and one time during a debate, she responded that her son had speech therapy not in formal situtions (ie in a speech therapist's office) but in all sorts of diffferent situtions like at a park or at a fair or whatever.....She was all " My child has FUN!!"
It's still therapy, therapy and even more therapy.....I mean that methodology assumes that kids aren't smart enough to take away lessons from formal speech therapy sessions and apply it in real life.

I'm familiar with Listen Up, but have never visited the site. I'm not going to, either. The point of the thread was to say that I'm reducing my stress by getting rid of the verbage. I'm NOT wanting to add to the frustration I feel. It's just not worth it.

 

[Oceanbreeze]

jillo, So ultimately a parent directing their child's play could result in codepency issues and all that baggage that entails?
And yes jillo, it does seem like there do seem to be a lot of oral parents who are convinced that Oral Only Will Automaticly Lead to High Acheivement. Like you know those parents who try to get their kids into prestigous preschools b/c they're a feeder school for Harvard?
And Deafbajagirl, although now many kids may not have to go through hours and hours and hours of therapy just to learn ONE word, oral only kids still go through that......I mean so many of them have therapy therapy therapy and not a lot of just being a KID Hell, HEARING kids go through that too sometimes...There is the debate over overprogramming for hearing kids.....one wonders if a lot of the oral sucess isn't actually about a lot of helicopter parents being driven to oral only.

I'm going to let Jillio chime in, but one could certainly make the leap for co-dependency issues coming into play later in the kids life. After all, if a child has to look to Mom for permission to play with a doll, then that doesn't exactly bode well for that kid later in life. It's much better for that child if you just give them a doll and watch them play on their own. That's how kids learn. Kids also learn from other kids. I can remember playing "restaurant" with my sister when we were little. She was the waitress and I was the customer. We had wonderful little things we would do as children. We also thought this stuff up on our own. Mom was never there to say to either one of us..."Now kids....What does this mean? This is a SPOON. What does it DO?" Ugh... THAT example makes me wanna throw up just thinking about it.

Play should be natural to children; not directed by Mom or Dad.

 

[Reba]

When parents say, for instance, "This is not therapy. I am just playing with my child and turning it into a language enriched environment." The parent, in fact, takes over, and directs the way the play goes. They choose activity and topic. Instead of letting the child engage in play the way the child needs to, independently and creatively, the parent becomes very directive regarding the play session. The child never learns to take the initiative in playtime, and if the child attempts to, the parent will take over and turn it the direction they want it to go in order to accomplish a pre-determined goal. There is no spontaneous activity.

A child learns from spontaneous and self directed play. If their play time is constantly directed by a parent, then they will never learn to take the initiative in any type of learning. They will always be waiting for someone to tell them what to do and how to do it. It really does have some crippling consequences for the child, in a developmental sense. One of the stages of childhood is to learn that they are independent creatures who can have a direct effect on, and a degree of control of, their environment and those around them. A child that does not resolve this stage properly carries all of those issues with them into adulthood. Any developmental stage left unresolved at any point prevents the next stage being resolved.

Shel might be able to explain this better than I. She is quite familiar with the stage theories, as well.

True about play time.

Honestly, I don't remember playing with my parents. I either played by myself, with friends, or with my brother. My parents provided things for me to play with (toys and household items), and a safe, clean environment for playing in. For outside experiences, they took us on trips to museums, parks, and nature sites. But we never had any structured learning time at home.

I realize that kids with special needs need some early childhood intervention but parents shouldn't become therapists.

Even if parents of deaf kids don't get involved in therapeutic activities, just by using a common language, providing opportunities for them to play with friends of their choosing, and not leaving the kids out of normal family activities would be a positive step.

IMO

 

[Oceanbreeze]

True about play time.

Honestly, I don't remember playing with my parents. I either played by myself, with friends, or with my brother. My parents provided things for me to play with (toys and household items), and a safe, clean environment for playing in. For outside experiences, they took us on trips to museums, parks, and nature sites. But we never had any structured learning time at home.

I realize that kids with special needs need some early childhood intervention but parents shouldn't become therapists.

Even if parents of deaf kids don't get involved in therapeutic activities, just by using a common language, providing opportunities for them to play with friends of their choosing, and not leaving the kids out of normal family activities would be a positive step.

IMO

I also played by myself or with my sister. I think my parents also played with me when I was little, but it wasn't so methodical as you would see in AVT. Dad and I would play with a ball or he would take us sledding. I also had physical therapy as a toddler and child, also, but can't remember how involved my parents were in that. I was too young.

A parent playing with their child ISN'T a bad thing. It's HOW you play with the kid that is the problem. Do you let the child use their OWN imagination or do you direct the play yourself to obtain an objective? I think this is what Jillio was getting at, and, I agree the latter can be harmful for the child; because they don't go through these developmental steps naturally.

I agree with you, Reba. Parents shouldn't become therapists. It never happened with me (as far as I can tell), and, it shouldn't happen with a deaf child, either. Unfortunately, it's common place with a deaf child.

 

[Banjo]

Play should be natural to children; not directed by Mom or Dad.

I completely agree.

 

[deafdyke]

I realize that kids with special needs need some early childhood intervention but parents shouldn't become therapists.

Dead on!!!!!

It's much better for that child if you just give them a doll and watch them play on their own. That's how kids learn. Kids also learn from other kids. I can remember playing "restaurant" with my sister when we were little. She was the waitress and I was the customer. We had wonderful little things we would do as children. We also thought this stuff up on our own. Mom was never there to say to either one of us..."Now kids....What does this mean? This is a SPOON. What does it DO?"

(sarcasm) But Oceanbreeze, don't you know that you gotta prime them as MUCH as possible for getting into Harvard? (/sarcasm) And yeah, I remember playing Winnabago with my brother (we'd play in the caravan and pretend we were traveling across the US)

 

[Speedy Hawk]

Maybe you were blue in the face when you said it.

It is my favourite colour.

I think if parents want to play with children, they should let children be control of the game, let the them tell parent their part in the play, so parents can be involved but not taking control and same time still spending time with their children. If children playing hospital game then children can say to parent I am "Doctor" and you are "Ill Person" etc.

 

[Oceanbreeze]

Dead on!!!!!
(sarcasm) But Oceanbreeze, don't you know that you gotta prime them as MUCH as possible for getting into Harvard? (/sarcasm) And yeah, I remember playing Winnabago with my brother (we'd play in the caravan and pretend we were traveling across the US)

I've seen that. It's disgusting. A little off topic, but another thing that bugs me to NO end is parents who push their children into sports at very young ages. What ever happened to kicking a kid outside and letting them just PLAY?

Makes me long for the days when we did that. None of this nonsense we see today. It's even worse if you are special needs. You're therapied TO DEATH and everything is structured.

 

[deafdyke]

Makes me long for the days when we did that. None of this nonsense we see today. It's even worse if you are special needs. You're therapied TO DEATH and everything is structured.

Question is though.....do blind and low vision kids or orapedic/phyiscally disabled kids or other classic special needs kids get therapied as much as oral dhh kids? AND the attitude by early interventionests is if you don't get them started in therapy the SECOND they are dx or if you don't have them in therapy 24/7 , they won't function "normally"
YES, have your kid in formal therapy. As long as they have access to decent qualified therapists, they'll be able to learn skills and abilty that they will have as part of a full toolbox, rather then that therapy skill being the ONLY skill available.

 

[deafskeptic]

MODS:

If this thread is in the wrong place, please move it as it's about CI blogs.

Thank you.


I decided tonight to delete the CI blogs I've read over the last few years. The reason being a simple one. I'm pissed off at what I'm reading and I realized that by reading these blasted things, I am secondarily supporting these parents and their methods. In actuality, the more I read about some of these "journeys", the more sickened and angry I get.

I constantly read statements like... "My child works harder than anyone I know. I'm SO proud of him!" And, I think to myself... This poor kid is ONLY in preschool school! Why do you force this kid to work harder than any other four year old when you could have given that child ASL; instead of forcing an oral only environment on your kid?" or... I read about the elementary school child who's had repeated re-implantation due to failure caused by infection, and, I think... "Why don't you just quit already? You are RISKING this child's life, you ditz!"

It sickens me. It saddens me. So, as of now, I'm done with the blogs. Soon as I finish typing this thread, I'm going to my bookmarks and hitting delete. I don't condone perpetual speech therapy, AVT, "working hard" when the child should be out with his or her friends. Parents who plan "Mommy boot camps" and so on...

I apologize if I sound angry. I AM angry. I'm also frustrated. These are children and they should have a childhood. They shouldn't have to work hard to speak. So, on that note... I'm going on my delete fest....

Oh god. The blogs that you mention reminds me of my upbringing and this was before CIs.. My parents put a big stock on hard work.

 

[Oceanbreeze]

Question is though.....do blind and low vision kids or orapedic/phyiscally disabled kids or other classic special needs kids get therapied as much as oral dhh kids? AND the attitude by early interventionests is if you don't get them started in therapy the SECOND they are dx or if you don't have them in therapy 24/7 , they won't function "normally"
YES, have your kid in formal therapy. As long as they have access to decent qualified therapists, they'll be able to learn skills and abilty that they will have as part of a full toolbox, rather then that therapy skill being the ONLY skill available.

I can't speak to the low vision/blind children, but, I CAN tell you that, yes, an orthopedically disabled child is given a LOT of therapy and very early on. It mostly consists of PT/OT; maybe speech if a child's speech is affected by CP, but, kids are given therapy several times a week and parents are encouraged to work with their child daily on various skill sets. I would say it's very intensive; much like that of a Dhh child.

I agree with you regarding the good quality former therapy, but, I've always had a gripe with in-school therapy. I can remember never having recess because I was always in PT during school hrs. How can a kid develop socially if they're always working on building muscles and such? It's important, but, I believe in a balance. I got therapy in school and ALSO outside of school! So, yes, I was therapied to death. As a result, I suffered socially for years. I didn't have friends until high school because it took several years for me to catch up from the time my parents stopped my in-school PT/OT somewhere between 4th to 6th grade.

 

[saywhatkid]

My sister (before she died) and I were talking about children and how they are so innocent. Then she said something that haunts me, even now.

"You never had a childhood." I didn't know what she was talking about but she added.
"You worked, worked, worked while other kids played outside. You finally learned one word. Do you remember that word?" I told her I had no idea.

"Play."

Wow. What an excellent testimony to letting children be free. Why do children need to excel for the parent's sake?

 

[deafdyke]

I can't speak to the low vision/blind children, but, I CAN tell you that, yes, an orthopedically disabled child is given a LOT of therapy and very early on. It mostly consists of PT/OT; maybe speech if a child's speech is affected by CP, but, kids are given therapy several times a week and parents are encouraged to work with their child daily on various skill sets. I would say it's very intensive; much like that of a Dhh child.

I agree with you regarding the good quality former therapy, but, I've always had a gripe with in-school therapy. I can remember never having recess because I was always in PT during school hrs. How can a kid develop socially if they're always working on building muscles and such? It's important, but, I believe in a balance. I got therapy in school and ALSO outside of school! So, yes, I was therapied to death

Really? I do have what's called hypotonia (low muscle tone) and was born with a clubfoot, so I did experiance some of what an OD kid would have. But all I remember is that a PT would come in school. I don't really remember my parents doing anything out of formal therapy. I do wish there'd been access to adaptive sports when I was a kid, so I could have applied those skills in a fun practical way. And yes, I hear you about the in school therapy. I had a FULL roster of stuff: speech, resource room and PT. I had so much stuff I didn't even have time to see a TOD?!?!? I still have NO clue how I managed to cram everything in....which is why I kind of wish I'd been able to attend a Deaf School or a Deaf program.... a lot of those things would have been built right into the school day.

 

[Oceanbreeze]

Really? I do have what's called hypotonia (low muscle tone) and was born with a clubfoot, so I did experiance some of what an OD kid would have. But all I remember is that a PT would come in school. I don't really remember my parents doing anything out of formal therapy. I do wish there'd been access to adaptive sports when I was a kid, so I could have applied those skills in a fun practical way. And yes, I hear you about the in school therapy. I had a FULL roster of stuff: speech, resource room and PT. I had so much stuff I didn't even have time to see a TOD?!?!? I still have NO clue how I managed to cram everything in....which is why I kind of wish I'd been able to attend a Deaf School or a Deaf program.... a lot of those things would have been built right into the school day.

I saw a lot more PT. A full course press; if you will. I was mainstreamed, but went to school with other orthopedically disabled students. There was a PT/OT/ST on staff, so as to ensure that the child got whatever needed therapy in school. This was 30 yrs ago, though. I have no clue what it's like now. I'm sure with all the budget cuts and things, it may be different. I also know that a lot of the orthopedic units have been disbanded and children now go to their neighborhood school. I guess NCLB also had it's own effect as well.

 

[inmate23]

I saw a lot more PT. A full course press; if you will. I was mainstreamed, but went to school with other orthopedically disabled students. There was a PT/OT/ST on staff, so as to ensure that the child got whatever needed therapy in school. This was 30 yrs ago, though. I have no clue what it's like now. I'm sure with all the budget cuts and things, it may be different. I also know that a lot of the orthopedic units have been disbanded and children now go to their neighborhood school. I guess NCLB also had it's own effect as well.

Really? I do have what's called hypotonia (low muscle tone) and was born with a clubfoot, so I did experiance some of what an OD kid would have. But all I remember is that a PT would come in school. I don't really remember my parents doing anything out of formal therapy. I do wish there'd been access to adaptive sports when I was a kid, so I could have applied those skills in a fun practical way. And yes, I hear you about the in school therapy. I had a FULL roster of stuff: speech, resource room and PT. I had so much stuff I didn't even have time to see a TOD?!?!? I still have NO clue how I managed to cram everything in....which is why I kind of wish I'd been able to attend a Deaf School or a Deaf program.... a lot of those things would have been built right into the school day.

im the at the end of scale of the scale im high tone cp

my vision needs were only meet in emetry school:roll: havn't made any real acimene process since then. I got lucky legal studies was in large print

I can't speak to the low vision/blind children, but, I CAN tell you that, yes, an orthopedically disabled child is given a LOT of therapy and very early on. It mostly consists of PT/OT; maybe speech if a child's speech is affected by CP, but, kids are given therapy several times a week and parents are encouraged to work with their child daily on various skill sets. I would say it's very intensive; much like that of a Dhh child.

I agree with you regarding the good quality former therapy, but, I've always had a gripe with in-school therapy. I can remember never having recess because I was always in PT during school hrs. How can a kid develop socially if they're always working on building muscles and such? It's important, but, I believe in a balance. I got therapy in school and ALSO outside of school! So, yes, I was therapied to death. As a result, I suffered socially for years. I didn't have friends until high school because it took several years for me to catch up from the time my parents stopped my in-school PT/OT somewhere between 4th to 6th grade.

sadly my dad believes to being therapied to death will mean i grow out of my cerebral palsy
vision and hearing issues can be fixed by leg stretches
i was warehoused in a mainstream school.

 

[deafdyke]

was mainstreamed, but went to school with other orthopedically disabled students. There was a PT/OT/ST on staff, so as to ensure that the child got whatever needed therapy in school. This was 30 yrs ago, though. I have no clue what it's like now. I'm sure with all the budget cuts and things, it may be different. I also know that a lot of the orthopedic units have been disbanded

Oh so, it was a regional program? On one hand, many OD kids don't really need intense specialized programming a la dhh kids.
Many of them can handle the academics, and may only need 504 Plan style accomondations (minimal accomondations) Also, now OD kids would be better off with the ADA accessibilty etc. However, at the same time there are still OD kids who aren't exactly being educated well by a Resource Room approach. I have often thought that maybe they should bring back formal programs for kids who are more complicated disabilty wise, then your typical resource room kid. I mean it is a fact that most public school sped programs are geared for LD and milder behavoiral issuses (ie ADD) I thought they pretty much got rid of formal OD programs, except maybe for preschool (and usually that's with other disabled kids if it's offered) and severe OD (like they use head switches to communicate or also have mental disabilties) My state still actually has a school for OD kids, but I think it serves basicly multiplely disabled OD kids....like basicly kids who would be in a pediatric nursing home.

 

[Oceanbreeze]

Oh so, it was a regional program? On one hand, many OD kids don't really need intense specialized programming a la dhh kids.
Many of them can handle the academics, and may only need 504 Plan style accomondations (minimal accomondations) Also, now OD kids would be better off with the ADA accessibilty etc. However, at the same time there are still OD kids who aren't exactly being educated well by a Resource Room approach. I have often thought that maybe they should bring back formal programs for kids who are more complicated disabilty wise, then your typical resource room kid. I mean it is a fact that most public school sped programs are geared for LD and milder behavoiral issuses (ie ADD) I thought they pretty much got rid of formal OD programs, except maybe for preschool (and usually that's with other disabled kids if it's offered) and severe OD (like they use head switches to communicate or also have mental disabilties) My state still actually has a school for OD kids, but I think it serves basicly multiplely disabled OD kids....like basicly kids who would be in a pediatric nursing home.

Yes, it was. I also believe they have been disbanded now. I'm sure your "typical disabled student" is now mainstreamed in his or her neighborhood school under an IEP. The IEP was also in use in these regional schools as well back 20-30 yrs ago. Also, there were SOME orthopedically disabled students who were in self contained classed under SPED, but like you said, these were also geared more towards the LD student. I can't speak to ADD. I was diagnosed with ADD as an adult, but am convinced I have suffered with it life long. However, I was NOT diagnosed, nor medicated when I was in school; even though I should have been. In short, my LD was never mitigated. They focused much more on the orthopedic issues and I was left to sink or swim in the mainstream with my LD. I swam....barely. My grades left a LOT to be desired, though. Thankfully, I graduated HS and was thankful to do so and leave all that garbage behind me.