Deaf Education research......

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Daredevel7 said:
I am sure some parents DO blame deaf schools. However, I suspect that some parents DO visit deaf schools with good intentions but didn't like what they saw. I don't know what the percentage is for your (or others') classes in terms of students who are ON or above their academic level, but if its 50% or less, I can see why they wouldn't want to put their child there.

I'm sorry that you have to work your butt off with those kids, but obviously, something needs to be done, correct? Or are you happy with this arrangement? What do YOU think we should do with those kids who are severely behind?
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I have already stated that several times...get to the root of the problem from the beginning.

I am unhappy for the kids who have fallen behind when there was no reason for it. It is a shame that society thinks it is ok to deprive deaf kids of full access to the educational setting and allow them to fall behind.
 
shel90 said:
I have already stated that several times...get to the root of the problem from the beginning.

I am unhappy for the kids who have fallen behind when there was no reason for it. It is a shame that society thinks it is ok to deprive deaf kids of full access to the educational setting and allow them to fall behind.
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Hence the reason I am bringing the "system talk" in the discussion of the forums...

Quite the irony: it seems like most agrees.... When that happens, threads like this and the explant threads get bumped down...
 
Daredevel7 said:
Try to get him or her to catch up, but not at the expense of someone who IS already at 5th grade level.

What is the current scenario of dealing with someone like this?

Why is NO one questioning the fact that the child is behind 5 grades in the first place? Being behind in ONE grade should raise a red flag.

For the life of me, I STILL cannot understand why some people can graduate or advance to the next level or grade when they are OBVIOUSLY very behind. This happens in colleges, too. The ASL teacher that I mentioned earlier? He has 5 degrees. 3 BAs, 1 MA, and 1 PhD. HOW IS THIS POSSIBLE? He cannot even write "I have never been to Europe." correctly?

I know I sound like a snob, but seriously, man.... something seems really wrong with the educational system!
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The only thing I can come up with re: THE "How IS THIS POSSIBLE" reference to the teacher is: Mastery of English isn't a reflection/basis for intelligence.
 
Daredevel7 said:
For the life of me, I STILL cannot understand why some people can graduate or advance to the next level or grade when they are OBVIOUSLY very behind. This happens in colleges, too. The ASL teacher that I mentioned earlier? He has 5 degrees. 3 BAs, 1 MA, and 1 PhD. HOW IS THIS POSSIBLE? He cannot even write "I have never been to Europe." correctly?

!
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When I was in community college, i had a tutor for English who checked over my work. I turned it in and got a good grade for it.

But other subjects I do fine without a tutor.
 
Basically, the article is also reminding us that kids who are being mainstreamed often are not getting the modifications, accommodations, and specialized educational programming they need. Most of their IEPs are a big fat joke because often times a deaf education specialist is not involved to make sure that they are getting the assessments and services they need.
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YES!!!!!! That is pretty much the problem. I do think that special ed law should mandate that dhh kids need to have their IEP evalutions done by a representative of the state School for the Deaf. I do think that parents are pressured to mainstream or they think that their kids will do better in the mainstream. I think that kids need to start out in the Deaf Ed system(not general special needs) and then gradually transistion to mainstreaming if possible.
 
deafdyke said:
YES!!!!!! That is pretty much the problem. I do think that special ed law should mandate that dhh kids need to have their IEP evalutions done by a representative of the state School for the Deaf. I do think that parents are pressured to mainstream or they think that their kids will do better in the mainstream. I think that kids need to start out in the Deaf Ed system(not general special needs) and then gradually transistion to mainstreaming if possible.
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That's how it should be...an older deaf child who has a strong foundation in everything would probably do better mainstreaming if its his/her choice rather than forcing a young child without the foundations to be mainstreamed and see if the child will make it or not.
 
deafdyke said:
And that includes oral schools/programs too. Daredevil, a lot of the crappy Deaf Schools are like that b/c they serve as a dumping ground for the kids who are oral failures or couldn't otherwise hack it in the mainstream.....like they didn't get the proper services/intervention. We DO need to improve things a lot!
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Perhaps things happens simultanteous.

1. The dumping ground policy.

2. Lousy schools having greater negative impact on deaf students because in many cases, acceptable levels ASL is missing in addition to common lousy standards that all kinds of schools can experience.

3. Parents putting their kids in a mainstream school, even if it's decent bilingual schools around.
 
Daredevel7 said:
Could you clarify this for me? In my mind, you're talking about bilingual education, but it really sounds like Spanish kids speaking Spanish at home and speaking English at school. (Correct me if I am wrong) This is EXACTLY how my family is raised for in my generation (and the next, oh god, Im old). All of my cousins grew up speaking both English and Spanish. However, they all go to schools that have English ONLY. If their teachers spoke Spanglish, I don't see the point of sending them to school to teach them English?
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If teachers know spanglish and are bilingual, then I guess the case is solved. Dunno how you learned english? If it was a breeze for you, what's the problem with the other spanish students? Curious what you think.
It seems like a lot of people are thinking about little kids when it comes to ASL teachers with bad English. Yes, they don't need to have a good English. It's only their ASL that matters. They can teach in most, if not all, subjects.

However, I am thinking about the OLDER kids. My middle and high school experience involved a lot of textbooks (Science and History), books (Literature), essays, reports, and so on. Maybe it's just a different experience in a ASL-infused school.
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I was not thinking about little kids when it comes to english. If I had a staff with deaf teachers with different skills in english, I wouldn't necessaryt put those who are decent in english with older kids and those who are poorer with small kids. Who is then going to explain english to the smaller kids? You also needs to be confident with english to make kids interested and play with the language.
 
shel90 said:
That's how it should be...an older deaf child who has a strong foundation in everything would probably do better mainstreaming if its his/her choice rather than forcing a young child without the foundations to be mainstreamed and see if the child will make it or not.
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Some deaf schools in europe are pretty screwed, while others are good. Is that problem solved in the states?

I can understand that some people exaggerate the problems in deaf schools, putting their kids in mainstream programs, and this way contribute to the dumping ground policy, that again increases the problems in deaf schools.

But is it still possible to look at the management of deaf schools with critical eyes, or is it all fine or a minor problem that not is serve enough to be adressed?

What I am a bit afraid of, is that if people constantly defend the deaf school versus mainstreaming programs, we can end up with importing the mainstreaming ideology into deaf schools. I've heard about it happening in a school in denmark recently. The sad part is that students aren't necessary happy with it. It's a "informed choice" and "expert" decision.
 
posts from hell said:
Hence the reason I am bringing the "system talk" in the discussion of the forums...

Quite the irony: it seems like most agrees.... When that happens, threads like this and the explant threads get bumped down...
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If your school in colorado is so good, how can other schools improve?

Not sure the deaf community are so totally in agreement, it's just against audism it may appear so. Like they say in the desert:
"I fight my brother, but will fight togheter with my brother against my cousin, and will fight togheter with my brother and cousin against strangers".
 
flip said:
Some deaf schools in europe are pretty screwed, while others are good. Is that problem solved in the states?

I can understand that some people exaggerate the problems in deaf schools, putting their kids in mainstream programs, and this way contribute to the dumping ground policy, that again increases the problems in deaf schools.

But is it still possible to look at the management of deaf schools with critical eyes, or is it all fine or a minor problem that not is serve enough to be adressed?

What I am a bit afraid of, is that if people constantly defend the deaf school versus mainstreaming programs, we can end up with importing the mainstreaming ideology into deaf schools. I've heard about it happening in a school in denmark recently. The sad part is that students aren't necessary happy with it. It's a "informed choice" and "expert" decision.
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My post had nothing to do with deaf schools. I was talking about giving all deaf kids all the tools and then when they get older, they can choose to be mainstreamed or not.
 
flip said:
If your school in colorado is so good, how can other schools improve?

Not sure the deaf community are so totally in agreement, it's just against audism it may appear so. Like they say in the desert:
"I fight my brother, but will fight togheter with my brother against my cousin, and will fight togheter with my brother and cousin against strangers".
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Other schools can improve when the higher ups start caring about the kids not money...........
 
posts from hell said:
Other schools can improve when the higher ups start caring about the kids not money...........
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In an effort to continue some disagreement in this thread, I blame you for saying that a good deaf school looks way more expensive than expensive surgeries, dumping ground policy, drug rehab costs, mental counselling and life long SSI expenses. The higher ups can't be THAT stupid?
 
shel90 said:
My post had nothing to do with deaf schools. I was talking about giving all deaf kids all the tools and then when they get older, they can choose to be mainstreamed or not.
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Sounds very clever. I was just curious. Keep up the great work!
 
flip said:
In an effort to continue some disagreement in this thread, I blame you for saying that a good deaf school looks way more expensive than expensive surgeries, dumping ground policy, drug rehab costs, mental counselling and life long SSI expenses. The higher ups can't be THAT stupid?
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Where did i say deaf schools were that expensive? I didnt. Even i think its cheaper than mainstreaming.

Do you understand ASL well? If so, i have a youtube that i made months ago on this topic.
 
flip said:
In an effort to continue some disagreement in this thread, I blame you for saying that a good deaf school looks way more expensive than expensive surgeries, dumping ground policy, drug rehab costs, mental counselling and life long SSI expenses. The higher ups can't be THAT stupid?
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Think I was the one who wrote about the cost of my daughter's tuition & transport to a deaf school: $65K each year (then multiply that by 15 years).
 
Other than transportation and dorms, Why do deaf schools in general cost so much. I don't know how it can more than public school when they sometimes use the same equipments (public schools even have smartboard).

I do remember reading that the head of a deaf school make alot of money. much more than public school (I was reading about the abuse in deaf school in the south and it mentioned it)
 
deafgal001 said:
Other than transportation and dorms, Why do deaf schools in general cost so much. I don't know how it can more than public school when they sometimes use the same equipments (public schools even have smartboard).

I do remember reading that the head of a deaf school make alot of money. much more than public school (I was reading about the abuse in deaf school in the south and it mentioned it)
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I make a lot less than the public school teachers do..even ones with less teaching experience than I do.
 
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