Deaf Education research......

[deafbajagal]

Too bad No Child Left Behind exists. According to the NCLB it is more important for a teacher to be certified in her content area than to be certified in deaf education. This sucks!!!!!! Eventually the teacher will have to be certified in both areas if they want to teach deaf children, but the NCLB wants the content area addressed first. This is why many deaf schools are "stuck" when it comes to hiring teachers. A teacher who is brand new with a certification in a content area is more likely to be hired than an experienced teacher in deaf education if she doesn't have a certification in a specific content area.

 

[jillio]

With all respect to Marschark, what he is figuring out with years of hard labor and as an editor of an academic journal of deaf education, is exactly the same thing deaf people have been saying for two centuries.

What's wrong with this picture?

It is true that the deaf have been saying it for two centuries, but the difference between Marschark and the majority of researchers is that he listens and uses what the deaf tell him as his testing hypothesis. He then completes the research necessary to develop an evidence base. In order to get educational policy changed, we have to have evidence based research to cite.

 

[posts from hell]

It is true that the deaf have been saying it for two centuries, but the difference between Marschark and the majority of researchers is that he listens and uses what the deaf tell him as his testing hypothesis. He then completes the research necessary to develop an evidence base. In order to get educational policy changed, we have to have evidence based research to cite.

Aha.

 

[jillio]

Too bad No Child Left Behind exists. According to the NCLB it is more important for a teacher to be certified in her content area than to be certified in deaf education. This sucks!!!!!! Eventually the teacher will have to be certified in both areas if they want to teach deaf children, but the NCLB wants the content area addressed first. This is why many deaf schools are "stuck" when it comes to hiring teachers. A teacher who is brand new with a certification in a content area is more likely to be hired than an experienced teacher in deaf education if she doesn't have a certification in a specific content area.

NCLB is the worst thing that ever happened to education.

 

[flip]

Nothing. Just the scientific progress. They also spent oodles of money to find out what was in ketchup decades after it was introduced.

Or did you want me to point out something else? Hearing parents perhaps?

More the latter. Do one have to be hearing to belive this is new knowledge? Who is doing the research for whom? Who is asking for this research? Is the experiences of deaf people of so little value one have to turn into years of resarch and tons of papers to figure out the obviously? I dunno, I am just asking.

 

[posts from hell]

More the latter. Do one have to be hearing to belive this is new knowledge? Who is doing the research for whom? Who is asking for this research? Is the experiences of deaf people of so little value one have to turn into years of resarch and tons of papers to figure out the obviously? I dunno, I am just asking.

Then Jillio put it the best for you.

 

[deafbajagal]

I see what you're saying Flip. Unfortunately, our experiences are only valid in the field if there's research to back up our claims. What some of us see as just common sense, others may be surprised to learn that many, not all, deaf kids learn differently than hearing peers because deafness means the processes in the brain will be wired differently than hearing people.

 

[flip]

It is true that the deaf have been saying it for two centuries, but the difference between Marschark and the majority of researchers is that he listens and uses what the deaf tell him as his testing hypothesis. He then completes the research necessary to develop an evidence base. In order to get educational policy changed, we have to have evidence based research to cite.

What I miss from Marschark, is comments on the quality of deaf schools today, though one can read between the lines why some deaf schools fails while others are doing very well. He appears to have a major focus on mainstreaming vs deaf schools.

The debate between mainstreaming vs deaf school is also where most disagreements among hearing professonials starts, from what I have seen. I appreciate his work, and he is of course right in what he is saying, though I am not sure he have listened 100% to deaf people, though 90% is a great improvment.

But this is just an hypothesis, and why I am asking.

 

[flip]

Then Jillio put it the best for you.

No, she didn't. She just said what she think, and I can agree with her.

 

[jillio]

What I miss from Marschark, is comments on the quality of deaf schools today, though one can read between the lines why some deaf schools fails while others are doing very well. He appears to have a major focus on mainstreaming vs deaf schools.

The debate between mainstreaming vs deaf school is also where most disagreements among hearing professonials starts, from what I have seen. I appreciate his work, and he is of course right in what he is saying, though I am not sure he have listened 100% to deaf people, though 90% is a great improvment.

But this is just an hypothesis, and why I am asking.

I don't think it is possible to find a researcher who accepts 100% the accounts of his subject participants. The nature of research makes it necessary to question.

I respect Marshark's work more than most just because he is so successful in designing research that supports the deaf perspective. Another practitioner, not researcher, that does an excellent job is a neurologist...Oliver Saks. He practices with a focus on natural adaptation instead of invasive medical intervention.

 

[deafgal001]

just pragmatic. we do have smartboard and it's troublesome.

whiteboard + markers = simple.... just that you gotta deal w/ toxic odor and dust.

My LD English teacher used whiteboard and markers. Those markers dry out quickly. When she doesn't have anymore, she just throws her hand up and say oh well! Chalkboard is better My teachers wrote a LOT more on chalkboards then they did on whiteboard (ink keep drying out).

but either way, teacher's back is turned. Overhead Projector were the best method for me.

 

[jillio]

No, she didn't. She just said what she think, and I can agree with her.

That we have to have evidenced based research to cite in order to get educational policy changed is not just my opinion. It is fact of the field.

 

[flip]

I don't think it is possible to find a researcher who accepts 100% the accounts of his subject participants. The nature of research makes it necessary to question.

I respect Marshark's work more than most just because he is so successful in designing research that supports the deaf perspective. Another practitioner, not researcher, that does an excellent job is a neurologist...Oliver Saks. He practices with a focus on natural adaptation instead of invasive medical intervention.

If a hearing person asked me if it's any research that support my views, I would point to Marschark, just to be sure no one gets me wrong.

While Marschark is telling people why deaf people are right, I can still sense some biases. One have to remember that the journal he is an editor of, includes a lot of research of hearing people.

So while his results are welcomed as an improvment in the science of deaf education, it's not done and perfect, IMO.

 

[flip]

That we have to have evidenced based research to cite in order to get educational policy changed is not just my opinion. It is fact of the field.

You are right. My question can be answered different ways, and you answered with some facts. The use of "think" was perhaps not the right word.

 

[jillio]

If a hearing person asked me if it's any research that support my views, I would point to Marschark, just to be sure no one gets me wrong.

While Marschark is telling people why deaf people are right, I can still sense some biases. One have to remember that the journal he is an editor of, includes a lot of research of hearing people.

So while his results are welcomed as an improvment in the science of deaf education, it's not done and perfect, IMO.

I don't think we will ever reach the point where it is 100% effective and 100% unbiased. Even with Marschark using deaf research assistants. But, then, the fact that it is evolving is a good thing. With each evolution of the research comes more accurate evidence.

 

[jillio]

You are right. My question can be answered different ways, and you answered with some facts. The use of "think" was perhaps not the right word.

NP. This is an area of study on which we are in agreement. I know from past discussions and sharing of information with you.

 

[flip]

I see what you're saying Flip. Unfortunately, our experiences are only valid in the field if there's research to back up our claims. What some of us see as just common sense, others may be surprised to learn that many, not all, deaf kids learn differently than hearing peers because deafness means the processes in the brain will be wired differently than hearing people.

We perhaps needs some research why it's that our common knowledge is perceived as new scientific discoveries by the majority. That would maybe speed up the research and let us focus on more constructive topics.

It's not a perfect comparision, but: hearing people don't research wether having a teacher who can speak is good for them or not, because .. that would be nonsense.

Beware, I am thinking loud, and just feeling a bit uneasy about some of the research done today.

 

[flip]

I don't think we will ever reach the point where it is 100% effective and 100% unbiased. Even with Marschark using deaf research assistants. But, then, the fact that it is evolving is a good thing. With each evolution of the research comes more accurate evidence.

True, that's something it's not possible to disagree on.

 

[flip]

NP. This is an area of study on which we are in agreement. I know from past discussions and sharing of information with you.

Yes, we are concerned about the same matters. I know you are a highly skilled professonial and do listen to the experiences of deaf people, so I am not afraid to start some discussions that we two may disagree on, like I do with other deaf people and researchers. Making new hypothesis and finding weaknesses in new bi-bi research are much more interesting to me, than the worn out oral-CI-mainstream-BiBi merry go round.

 

[jillio]

Yes, we are concerned about the same matters. I know you are a highly skilled professonial and do listen to the experiences of deaf people, so I am not afraid to start some discussions that we two may disagree on, like I do with other deaf people and researchers. Making new hypothesis and finding weaknesses in new bi-bi research are much more interesting to me, than the worn out oral-CI-mainstream-BiBi merry go round.

I would like to see a project undertaken to do a longitudinal study of deaf bi-bi students today. I see so much value in the method as compared to the alternatives, yet I think it is important that we take the time to discover what the weaknesses are so they can be corrected. No method is fool proof.