Deaf Education research......

[flip]

What I miss, is more research about the teacher and the principals in deaf schools. How does their ASL/speech level influence the results among students. How much ASL is it necessary to know. This is rarely mentioned.

Is it because it's mostly hearing people who provide research about bi-bi, and it's so much easier to focus on the kids than risk offending their colleagues and their own possibly insufficient ASL skills?

 

[deafgal001]

What I miss, is more research about the teacher and the principals in deaf schools. How does their ASL/speech level influence the results among students. How much ASL is it necessary to know. This is rarely mentioned.

Is it because it's mostly hearing people who provide research about bi-bi, and it's so much easier to focus on the kids than risk offending their colleagues and their own possibly insufficient ASL skills?

If researchers are not fluent in ASL, the whole research is pointless in my opinion.

 

[flip]

If researchers are not fluent in ASL, the whole research is pointless in my opinion.

Good point, forgot to add ASL skills among researchers. Not because it makes them favor ASL, but able to observe what's really going on.

I've talked with Marschark(great guy), and he appeared to be fluent, fortunately.

 

[faire_jour]

You are misreading.
It is not either language works well. It is both languages work well in combination.

It says that early communication is key, and it says it doesn't matter which language it is.

 

[Jiro]

.

sssssssshhhhhhhhhhh

 

[faire_jour]

sssssssshhhhhhhhhhh

Why?

 

[rick48]

It says that early communication is key, and it says it doesn't matter which language it is.

Agreed, here is his first bullet point:
The deaf students who perform best academically usually are the ones whose parents have effectively communicated with them from an early age.

While he certainly has a preference for bibi education and early implantation with spoken language, he is the rare breed who understands that what works best for the child is what matters most.

Rick

 

[deafbajagal]

"What works best for the child is what matters most."

ABSOLUTELY!!!!

 

[Jiro]

Why?

cuz you talk too much and I'm tired of lip-reading.

Less Talk, More Action

 

[Daredevel7]

What I miss, is more research about the teacher and the principals in deaf schools. How does their ASL/speech level influence the results among students. How much ASL is it necessary to know. This is rarely mentioned.

Is it because it's mostly hearing people who provide research about bi-bi, and it's so much easier to focus on the kids than risk offending their colleagues and their own possibly insufficient ASL skills?

This is in conjuction of what PFH said earlier in this thread. He mentioned a certain deaf school where the students' performance exceeded far past the performance of students from hearing schools. This deaf school had deaf parents, deaf teachers, etc.

If I were to send my child to a deaf school, I'd make sure they are fluent in ASL. It would be like sending a hearing child to a school here in America where most of the Spanish teachers speak somewhat good English. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if there ARE schools like that in Miami where a lot of the teachers were from Latin countries and they aren't quite fluent in English.

So here is a question.... what happens first?

1) Fire the hearing teachers then hire more deaf teachers?
2) Send more deaf children to deaf schools so that they would get more money to hire more deaf teachers?

Another thing I want to ask.... do the deaf teachers have to be fluent in English? If so, you probably have eliminated some potential teachers. My ASL teacher was a great teacher, and we became friends. I found out later through emailing and FB that his English grammer is not very good. He said stuff like "I have never touch finish been in Europe." Should he be a teacher for the deaf?

 

[flip]

This is in conjuction of what PFH said earlier in this thread. He mentioned a certain deaf school where the students' performance exceeded far past the performance of students from hearing schools. This deaf school had deaf parents, deaf teachers, etc.

If I were to send my child to a deaf school, I'd make sure they are fluent in ASL. It would be like sending a hearing child to a school here in America where most of the Spanish teachers speak somewhat good English. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if there ARE schools like that in Miami where a lot of the teachers were from Latin countries and they aren't quite fluent in English.

So here is a question.... what happens first?

1) Fire the hearing teachers then hire more deaf teachers?
2) Send more deaf children to deaf schools so that they would get more money to hire more deaf teachers?

Another thing I want to ask.... do the deaf teachers have to be fluent in English? If so, you probably have eliminated some potential teachers. My ASL teacher was a great teacher, and we became friends. I found out later through emailing and FB that his English grammer is not very good. He said stuff like "I have never touch finish been in Europe." Should he be a teacher for the deaf?

Spanish kids with little english knowledge are often sent to english speaking schools. Bilingual education and research orginates from that situation. The field of deaf education have borrowed a lot of findings from the spanish-english bilingual situation.

From personal experiences and reading research on the spanish-english bilingualism, I know that your ASL teacher would be fine as a teacher, and research can support that he in some cases even is prefered for teaching english, over a teacher fluent in english.

Your 1 and 2 question is controversial. It looks like you are discrediting hearing teachers, and putting lousy deaf teachers over good hearing teachers. I'm fine with your questions, but I'm not sure if the majority dare to hear the answers to your questions.

Personally, I would let the principal decide, as it's many factors involved, but it would be great if the school had a "bibi school in practice for dummies" around. Unfortunately, for some reasons, it does not exists.

 

[deafgal001]

This is in conjuction of what PFH said earlier in this thread. He mentioned a certain deaf school where the students' performance exceeded far past the performance of students from hearing schools. This deaf school had deaf parents, deaf teachers, etc.

If I were to send my child to a deaf school, I'd make sure they are fluent in ASL. It would be like sending a hearing child to a school here in America where most of the Spanish teachers speak somewhat good English. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if there ARE schools like that in Miami where a lot of the teachers were from Latin countries and they aren't quite fluent in English.

So here is a question.... what happens first?

1) Fire the hearing teachers then hire more deaf teachers?
2) Send more deaf children to deaf schools so that they would get more money to hire more deaf teachers?

Another thing I want to ask.... do the deaf teachers have to be fluent in English? If so, you probably have eliminated some potential teachers. My ASL teacher was a great teacher, and we became friends. I found out later through emailing and FB that his English grammer is not very good. He said stuff like "I have never touch finish been in Europe." Should he be a teacher for the deaf?

If people don't hire deaf people for anything, then what the point of going to school?

but yeah, they should know the proper English.. but I was thinking, do they really have to teach every subjects?

 

[deafdyke]

Actually, there is no reason that you can not utilize ASL and an oral school. I know several Deaf families who choose to send their children to oral schools. (As well as ourselves and some other hearing families.)

Yes, that's always an option. As well as the fact that there are some Deaf Schools that have TC preschools and oral preschools.
In cases like that, you could arrange it, so that kids can spend a couple of days in the TC/Sign program and then some time in the oral program.

The parents need to grieve their loss and then buck up and attend to their child's needs

Yup.....seen that too...even experianced it personally

and some deaf schools are just not acceptable. Frankly, I don't care that it is accessible. It still doesn't make it right.

And that includes oral schools/programs too. Daredevil, a lot of the crappy Deaf Schools are like that b/c they serve as a dumping ground for the kids who are oral failures or couldn't otherwise hack it in the mainstream.....like they didn't get the proper services/intervention. We DO need to improve things a lot!

 

[sheila022]

would it help things if I became a part-time teacher of the deaf in all subjects?LOLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL

 

[Daredevel7]

Spanish kids with little english knowledge are often sent to english speaking schools. Bilingual education and research orginates from that situation. The field of deaf education have borrowed a lot of findings from the spanish-english bilingual situation.

From personal experiences and reading research on the spanish-english bilingualism, I know that your ASL teacher would be fine as a teacher, and research can support that he in some cases even is prefered for teaching english, over a teacher fluent in english.

Could you clarify this for me? In my mind, you're talking about bilingual education, but it really sounds like Spanish kids speaking Spanish at home and speaking English at school. (Correct me if I am wrong) This is EXACTLY how my family is raised for in my generation (and the next, oh god, Im old). All of my cousins grew up speaking both English and Spanish. However, they all go to schools that have English ONLY. If their teachers spoke Spanglish, I don't see the point of sending them to school to teach them English?

It seems like a lot of people are thinking about little kids when it comes to ASL teachers with bad English. Yes, they don't need to have a good English. It's only their ASL that matters. They can teach in most, if not all, subjects.

However, I am thinking about the OLDER kids. My middle and high school experience involved a lot of textbooks (Science and History), books (Literature), essays, reports, and so on. Maybe it's just a different experience in a ASL-infused school.

Your 1 and 2 question is controversial. It looks like you are discrediting hearing teachers, and putting lousy deaf teachers over good hearing teachers. I'm fine with your questions, but I'm not sure if the majority dare to hear the answers to your questions.

Well, generally, deaf people have a better command of ASL over hearing teachers. And someone already mentioned that a deaf school has superior results because most people who work there are deaf. And I said nothing about replacing hearing teachers with lousy deaf teachers. In fact, I DON'T want lousy deaf teachers, or lousy teachers, period. I simply added a question at the end about a deaf teacher with bad English because I was curious.

 

[Daredevel7]

And that includes oral schools/programs too. Daredevil, a lot of the crappy Deaf Schools are like that b/c they serve as a dumping ground for the kids who are oral failures or couldn't otherwise hack it in the mainstream.....like they didn't get the proper services/intervention. We DO need to improve things a lot!

How? It seems like here on AD, the ONLY reason why deaf schools are like that is because of the "audist" attitude of the hearing population.

So that's what we are supposed to fight against? Try to make hearing people "see" and deaf kids will flow into deaf schools to make the schools a higher quality?

Nothing to do with the schools themselves, right?

 

[shel90]

How? It seems like here on AD, the ONLY reason why deaf schools are like that is because of the "audist" attitude of the hearing population.

So that's what we are supposed to fight against? Try to make hearing people "see" and deaf kids will flow into deaf schools to make the schools a higher quality?

Nothing to do with the schools themselves, right?

If a child who is in 5th grade gets transferred from a public school with a reading level at the kindergarten level. What is a Deaf school supposed to do? Expect the child to read at 5th grade level or teach at the child's level and work hard to get the child caught up?

This isnt a made-up scenario, BTW.

So what is your suggestion on situations like these?

 

[Daredevel7]

If a child who is in 5th grade gets transferred from a public school with a reading level at the kindergarten level. What is a Deaf school supposed to do? Expect the child to read at 5th grade level or teach at the child's level and work hard to get the child caught up?

This isnt a made-up scenario, BTW.

So what is your suggestion on situations like these?

Try to get him or her to catch up, but not at the expense of someone who IS already at 5th grade level.

What is the current scenario of dealing with someone like this?

Why is NO one questioning the fact that the child is behind 5 grades in the first place? Being behind in ONE grade should raise a red flag.

For the life of me, I STILL cannot understand why some people can graduate or advance to the next level or grade when they are OBVIOUSLY very behind. This happens in colleges, too. The ASL teacher that I mentioned earlier? He has 5 degrees. 3 BAs, 1 MA, and 1 PhD. HOW IS THIS POSSIBLE? He cannot even write "I have never been to Europe." correctly?

I know I sound like a snob, but seriously, man.... something seems really wrong with the educational system!

 

[shel90]

Try to get him or her to catch up, but not at the expense of someone who IS already at 5th grade level.

What is the current scenario of dealing with someone like this?

Why is NO one questioning the fact that the child is behind 5 grades in the first place? Being behind in ONE grade should raise a red flag.

For the life of me, I STILL cannot understand why some people can graduate or advance to the next level or grade when they are OBVIOUSLY very behind. This happens in colleges, too. The ASL teacher that I mentioned earlier? He has 5 degrees. 3 BAs, 1 MA, and 1 PhD. HOW IS THIS POSSIBLE? He cannot even write "I have never been to Europe." correctly?

I know I sound like a snob, but seriously, man.... something seems really wrong with the educational system!

I cant speak for the college level.

No, the other kids are never put at expense. We have one 4th grader who reads at 8th grade level.

We have assigned groups by their academic level.

However, it is very very hard to get a 5th grader caught up than it is with younger kids which is why I prefer younger kids get taught under a qualified deaf education teacher not by mainstreamed teachers because of situations like these.

It happens too many times and people blame the Deaf schools. In fact, I used to be one of those people blaming Deaf schools until I saw for myself what really went on. Now, I am in the group which gets held liable and we work our butts off with those kids.

 

[Daredevel7]

I cant speak for the college level.

No, the other kids are never put at expense. We have one 4th grader who reads at 8th grade level.

We have assigned groups by their academic level.

However, it is very very hard to get a 5th grader caught up than it is with younger kids which is why I prefer younger kids get taught under a qualified deaf education teacher not by mainstreamed teachers because of situations like these.

It happens too many times and people blame the Deaf schools. In fact, I used to be one of those people blaming Deaf schools until I saw for myself what really went on. Now, I am in the group which gets held liable and we work our butts off with those kids.

I am sure some parents DO blame deaf schools. However, I suspect that some parents DO visit deaf schools with good intentions but didn't like what they saw. I don't know what the percentage is for your (or others') classes in terms of students who are ON or above their academic level, but if its 50% or less, I can see why they wouldn't want to put their child there.

I'm sorry that you have to work your butt off with those kids, but obviously, something needs to be done, correct? Or are you happy with this arrangement? What do YOU think we should do with those kids who are severely behind?