Deaf and English Literacy

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If a hearing person thinks Mexican peple who speak and read only in Spanish BUT are able read, write and discuss the Spanish version of Shakespeare but consider them illiterate because they write in "broken" English, that hearing person is dumb as a rock and not worth trying to explain the differences. Educated or open-minded people wont need as much explaining. The close-minded or uneducated ones do and sometimes, it is not even worth it
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Thank you Shel, it is very true what you said, and I understand that,

however you keep missing my point.
What you wrote above, is precisely why I am asking HOW to explain the difference,
wherein lies the difference between SIGNED language and WRITTEN language - and how the layperson can understand it.

It is from grammatical pov, and has nothing to do with how the deaf person is perceived as illiterate - is about the difference in the languages themselves. I hope I explained this better now.

I however disagree with you on that educated or intelligent people should know such difference right away - no, they don't because as I've said before
the fact that both ASL and spoken/written English use the same words -
"cat" -"cat", "house"- "house" etc, makes it all very confusing.

For the hearing unfamiliar with ASL it looks like the deaf are speaking broken English, indeed. So how are they supposed to know?


Fuzzy
 
Frisky Feline said:
oh yes i do agree what your statement about literate in our primary language with no doubt. I can see what others response that take time to get aware about it or not. Thats true.,

just that op heard about deaf people's langauge issue that get my attention. :D
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Audiofuzzy said:
Thank you Shel, it is very true what you said, and I understand that,

however you keep missing my point.
What you wrote above, is precisely why I am asking HOW to explain the difference,
wherein lies the difference between SIGNED language and WRITTEN language - and how the layperson can understand it.

It is from grammatical pov, and has nothing to do with how the deaf person is perceived as illiterate - is about the difference in the languages themselves. I hope I explained this better now.

I however disagree with you on that educated or intelligent people should know such difference right away - no, they don't because as I've said before
the fact that both ASL and spoken/written English use the same words -
"cat" -"cat", "house"- "house" etc, makes it all very confusing.

For the hearing unfamiliar with ASL it looks like the deaf are speaking broken English, indeed. So how are they supposed to know?


Fuzzy
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I am speaking of educated, not as in book-smart, but as in people-smart. That means having an open-mind and willing to explore both languages to really understand the differences. It took me about 4 or 5 years to finally understand it since I didnt grow up with ASL. That takes a LOT of education about real life and languages to really get it.

That is what I mean.
 
Bottesini said:
You poke somebody with a stick enough times, it starts to hurt even worse. And the one being poked starts to get angry and defensive in advance when they see the stick coming.

Whether they understand deaf people or not, good manners and common everyday etiquette should prevent just coming in and asking that question.
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That is true, and I agree. When same thing happen over and over, one blows one's gasket eventually :)

However, wouldn't you say that in a way it's our cross to bear, unfortunately.
We are deaf, and we will never see the end of "newbies" who sooner or later will knock on AD asking the very same questions for the very first time over and over and over?
That's why we need to explain and teach that some questions and subjects are rather rude, and should not be asked or asked differently.

Such is our fate...:hmm:

Fuzzy
 
Audiofuzzy said:
That is true, and I agree. When same thing happen over and over, one blows one's gasket eventually :)

However, wouldn't you say that in a way it's our cross to bear, unfortunately.
We are deaf, and we will never see the end of "newbies" who sooner or later will knock on AD asking the very same questions for the very first time over and over and over?
That's why we need to explain and teach that some questions and subjects are rather rude, and should not be asked or asked differently.

Such is our fate...:hmm:

Fuzzy
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Our cross to bear? Fuzzy, you should know by now, I will take up that cross and beat the tormentors over the head with it. :)
 
shel90 said:
It took me about 4 or 5 years to finally understand it since I didnt grow up with ASL. That takes a LOT of education about real life and languages to really get it.
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Great! and wow... !!

now, do you mind sharing what you discovered, what actually these grammatical differences in your opinion are?


btw, if it takes so long to get these differences for someone who knows ASL,
imagine how is it for a clueless layperson hearie.

Fuzzy
 
Follow Up

Hey everyone-
Thanks for all the comments and the discussion. I appreciate your patience with my ignorance and realize that I certainly should have taken more time to introduce myself and jump in with a question.

A couple of follow up items that I didn't express very well in my initial post. First, I think I have at least a basic understanding that ASL is a completely different language. As a hearing person, my ASL and Spanish literacy is very low- for that matter my English literacy might not be all that great either.

The reason I asked the question is that our organization produces a magazine in English that is written at about a 10th grade level, we also produce a parto of that magazine in ASL. The question was asked of me whether the English version of that magazine would be adequate for our ASL audience and I came hear to look for help.

I had talked with a couple of people from our local Deaf community and they shared with me a concern that they felt the English literacy level of at least a portion of the Deaf community would have difficulty with the English version of the magazine because the literacy rate of many was at a 3rd or 4th grade level. I had no other experience to base my question on, so that is where I started.

Since then, I have looked around online for awhile and haven't found much, but this page:
Literacy & Deaf Students
and this page:
Rethinking Literacy Strategies For Deaf Students | UANews.org

Both mention Deaf high school graduates reading English at 4th grade level. Perhaps that is my answer. That said, I fully realize that it is completely inappropriate to assume the English reading level of any single Deaf person, but looking for some general data.

Thanks for the help!
 
mactoph said:
Hey everyone-
Thanks for all the comments and the discussion. I appreciate your patience with my ignorance and realize that I certainly should have taken more time to introduce myself and jump in with a question.

A couple of follow up items that I didn't express very well in my initial post. First, I think I have at least a basic understanding that ASL is a completely different language. As a hearing person, my ASL and Spanish literacy is very low- for that matter my English literacy might not be all that great either.

The reason I asked the question is that our organization produces a magazine in English that is written at about a 10th grade level, we also produce a parto of that magazine in ASL. The question was asked of me whether the English version of that magazine would be adequate for our ASL audience and I came hear to look for help.

I had talked with a couple of people from our local Deaf community and they shared with me a concern that they felt the English literacy level of at least a portion of the Deaf community would have difficulty with the English version of the magazine because the literacy rate of many was at a 3rd or 4th grade level. I had no other experience to base my question on, so that is where I started.

Since then, I have looked around online for awhile and haven't found much, but this page:
Literacy & Deaf Students
and this page:
Rethinking Literacy Strategies For Deaf Students | UANews.org

Both mention Deaf high school graduates reading English at 4th grade level. Perhaps that is my answer. That said, I fully realize that it is completely inappropriate to assume the English reading level of any single Deaf person, but looking for some general data.

Thanks for the help!
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How do you produce a magazine in ASL? I'm curious.
 
Audiofuzzy said:
That is true, and I agree. When same thing happen over and over, one blows one's gasket eventually :)

However, wouldn't you say that in a way it's our cross to bear, unfortunately.
We are deaf, and we will never see the end of "newbies" who sooner or later will knock on AD asking the very same questions for the very first time over and over and over?
That's why we need to explain and teach that some questions and subjects are rather rude, and should not be asked or asked differently.

Such is our fate...:hmm:

Fuzzy
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It is only your "fate" if you lay down and accept it. You don't have to walk around with that cross on your shoulder. You choose to walk around with that cross on your should. You can put it down any time you choose.

Perhaps playing the victim in this way provides you with some sort of benefit in the hearing world.( Poor little deaf woman syndrome. She is so brave, despite the fact that she has such a horrible cross to bear.) But around here, with other deafies, it doesn't get you anything except a reputation as a whiner.
 
jillio said:
Yep. I am confused. The poster specifically said they produced a mag with ASL and English.
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Maybe on iPad or Nook Color or Kindle Fire! We live in a techie era! :lol:
 
Bottesini said:
Maybe on iPad or Nook Color or Kindle Fire! We live in a techie era! :lol:
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but still at that point, it wouldn't be a magazine, it would be more of a e-zine (which is normally still no moving images) or a vlog... we do live in a techie era yes, but i still haven't found something classified as a magazine that has moving images, especially not the length that would be required for articles.
 
Magazine in ASL

The ASL magazine is simply recorded video of the contents of the magazine in ASL. Perhaps I should have said we create a video fo the contents of the magazine.
 
mactoph said:
The ASL magazine is simply recorded video of the contents of the magazine in ASL. Perhaps I should have said we create a video fo the contents of the magazine.
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ok then you create a vlog (video blog) of your magazine contents. That clears things up a bit!
 
Haha, I was hoping this wasn't another person who confuses ASL and braille!
 
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