Deaf Adoption: A Rhetorician's New Family

[kokonut]

I did name someone. And yes, I am saying that there are those who can accomplish that. There are exceptions in every category. Just as there are CI implantees who do not achieve discrimination scores sufficient to converse on a telephone. But then again, why is it so necessary to be able to carry on a converstion on the telephone, given the technological advances that have diverted that one oral method of communicaiton over distance?

I'd like to talk to your son over the phone. How old is he?

 

[jillio]

Many practice the oral method but cannot do whit about the aural part. So, it's better not to assume that oral includes the aural aspect. If I want to make clear on the distinction of both I say "oral/aural". The two are not the same.

Ah, but the oral method of education includes relying on residual hearing, whether assisted or not, spoken language, and lipreading. That is the whole point. Some can't to whit about the aural part, so why such a restriction that would limit the impaired aural to simply oral?

 

[jillio]

I'd like to talk to your son over the phone. How old is he?

He will be 22 in March, and is currently away at college. I will be happy to ask him if he would agree to do so. That would be his decision, as he is an adult.

 

[kokonut]

Even if they continue to miss information? Why is it all right to deny a child full access?

There's cued speech. There's hearing aid. There's CART. I don't see a child with mild hearing loss losing out the full access (with hearing aid) compared to a child with much more severe hearing loss.

Are you profoundly deaf?

 

[kokonut]

He will be 22 in March, and is currently away at college. I will be happy to ask him if he would agree to do so. That would be his decision, as he is an adult.

He can email me at: mmcconnell2004(at)hotmail.com
And we can exchange cell phone numbers.

What's his dB loss?
Is it sensorineural or another kind of hearing loss type?

 

[kokonut]

Ah, but the oral method of education includes relying on residual hearing, whether assisted or not, spoken language, and lipreading. That is the whole point. Some can't to whit about the aural part, so why such a restriction that would limit the impaired aural to simply oral?

Let me clarify again. I misspoke.

Aural-oral emphasizes the use of speech, residual hearing and some lip reading.

Auditory-oral is about training to hear and develop expressive speech. And be able to function well in a regular or mainstreamed school.

Saying oral does not make it clear on which methods used.

 

[Cloggy]

My son does not have a CI. And yes, he can carry on conversations onthe telephone when he needs to. But he prefers no use TDD or text. However, even as a teenager, he was able to take accurate messages for me over a telephone. And he has been severe to profound since birth.

Very, very impressive!!!

 

[jag]

My son does not have a CI. And yes, he can carry on conversations onthe telephone when he needs to. But he prefers no use TDD or text. However, even as a teenager, he was able to take accurate messages for me over a telephone. And he has been severe to profound since birth.

Impressive. Like I said I couldn't do that for the past ?? how many years. Or perhaps I should say I chose not to do so since it was to aggravating trying to understand the person on the other end. Was much easier to just let the machine do the work, even after the state gave me the most powerful amplyfied phone they had.

 

[jag]

Even if they continue to miss information? Why is it all right to deny a child full access?

But if I recall some of you are arguring that Jackie should not go for full access using CART for her daughter who doesn't use sign, even though her daughter does miss information based on the fact that she is doing well, so which is it.

I do know that the status quo in education seems to be if you're doing ok then you don't need access but if we are talking access to information being missed because of hearing loss then one should persue a change in that policy. ACtually things in sped aren't always what the schools tell you they are, there are about 10 reasons for children to recieve ESY and schools only use the regression one, probably because with most kids the recoupment time is under the ??? days so they can deny it.

The family in this instance made an informed decision to use cued speech to give the child access. It will be intersting to see how she does as time goes by. I hope her mother continues to share her progress.

 

[kokonut]

But if I recall some of you are arguring that Jackie should not go for full access using CART for her daughter who doesn't use sign, even though her daughter does miss information based on the fact that she is doing well, so which is it.

I do know that the status quo in education seems to be if you're doing ok then you don't need access but if we are talking access to information being missed because of hearing loss then one should persue a change in that policy. ACtually things in sped aren't always what the schools tell you they are, there are about 10 reasons for children to recieve ESY and schools only use the regression one, probably because with most kids the recoupment time is under the ??? days so they can deny it.

The family in this instance made an informed decision to use cued speech to give the child access. It will be intersting to see how she does as time goes by. I hope her mother continues to share her progress.

Jillio:

I can't see providing the extras such as CART for a high achieving student if it means that a child who truly doesn't have equal access will be denied.

http://www.alldeaf.com/deaf-education/23159-best-deaf-school-5.html#post815724

 

[kokonut]

Very, very impressive!!!

Everyday normal conversations is what I'm looking for. Not shouting into the phone hoping one would understand some of the spoken words.

 

[R2D2]

My son does not have a CI. And yes, he can carry on conversations onthe telephone when he needs to. But he prefers no use TDD or text. However, even as a teenager, he was able to take accurate messages for me over a telephone. And he has been severe to profound since birth.

Very impressive! I could never do that with hearing aids and with a similar hearing loss to your son, although I can now with my CI. I think even hearing people now almost prefer to text each other.

 

[R2D2]

Many practice the oral method but cannot do whit about the aural part. So, it's better not to assume that oral includes the aural aspect. If I want to make clear on the distinction of both I say "oral/aural". The two are not the same.

I was raised under the aural method. I never actually received formal speech therapy and any kind of obvious correction of mispronouciations was discouraged, in case it put me off from wanting to communicate freely. I was taught to learn language naturally in the same way as hearing people, albeit with powerful hearing aids. Is this similar to what you are talking about?

 

[jag]

Jillio:

http://www.alldeaf.com/deaf-education/23159-best-deaf-school-5.html#post815724

And? JUst asking since you've made no comment? Jillio is saying that those deaf students with CI who are using speech with no sign, who are doing ok while missing something shouldn't persue full access. (because it 'may' impact services to someone else) One wonders exactly which group of peers a deaf child with a CI should be compared to, their deaf + asl peers or the non deaf ones.

If one argues the student with a CI is still deaf then the comparision should be with the deaf/asl peers rather then the non deaf peers. So if a deaf student using spoken language as their educational language is doing worse then the deaf student using asl and interpetor there is the agrument that the student with the CI is not getting the full access like her peers getting the ASL interpetors.

Hope that makes sense.

I do wonder if they hire cued speech interpetors for these kids using cued speech like they do for kids using asl? Anyone know?

 

[kokonut]

I do wonder if they hire cued speech interpetors for these kids using cued speech like they do for kids using asl? Anyone know?

They do. Just that they're harder to come by and get a hold of compared to having ASL interpreters.

 

[shel90]

There's cued speech. There's hearing aid. There's CART. I don't see a child with mild hearing loss losing out the full access (with hearing aid) compared to a child with much more severe hearing loss.

Are you profoundly deaf?

I wore hearing aides all my life and I still missed out a lot of info. How fun is it to sit in a class trying to catch everything rather than really learning? All my life, it was all about trying to keep up. That is wrong and so unfair cuz hearing kids dont have to go thru that unless they have other additional needs in which they get those needs met.

 

[shel90]

Very, very impressive!!!

Yesterday, I ordered my food at a drive thru at McDonald's cuz the lines inside were incredibly long and I was in a hurry. I ordered an Egg McMuffin sandwich and a large Diet Coke. As usual, most hearing people understand my speech but when the cashier repeated my order, I had to concenrate really hard and mentally block everything out...sure enough I heard her say "Is that a large Diet Coke and an Egg McMuffin sandwich, ma'am?" So I said yes..that is with a db level of 120 with one HA. The point is I have to concentrate so hard to listen and I cant do that all the time. HOH people have told me that they have to concenrate hard to catch everything that is being said and they get worn out which is why many are happy to learn signing later on.

I noticed in your video of Lotte, her brother and u sitting on the table. As a deaf person, I notice these things so I dont know if u noticed it..but did u see Lotte looking at u the whole time while her brother still can turn away but still stay in the conversations. I could be wrong but it looked like Lotte was concentrating on hearing what u were saying to her. I cant base my judgement solely on one video itself but that was what I saw so..that's typical of many people with hearing loss...they have to concentrate hard to "hear". My dad is losing his hearing and I notice that he is showing signs on having to work at hearing what others are saying.

Can u imagine a child having to do that all day at school? That can wear a person out.

 

[kokonut]

Can u imagine a child having to do that all day at school? That can wear a person out.

I don't even remember even trying to concentrate. I just listen. Also, I strategically place myself in the front, left corner section of the classroom seats. Since my hearing aid is on my right ear, I can hear people ask questions and so forth behind me. In fact, I hear and understand better when people sit to the right of me and up to several seats behind me whenever they talk.

 

[jag]

Yesterday, I ordered my food at a drive thru at McDonald's cuz the lines inside were incredibly long and I was in a hurry. I ordered an Egg McMuffin sandwich and a large Diet Coke. As usual, most hearing people understand my speech but when the cashier repeated my order, I had to concenrate really hard and mentally block everything out...sure enough I heard her say "Is that a large Diet Coke and an Egg McMuffin sandwich, ma'am?" So I said yes..that is with a db level of 120 with one HA. The point is I have to concentrate so hard to listen and I cant do that all the time. HOH people have told me that they have to concenrate hard to catch everything that is being said and they get worn out which is why many are happy to learn signing later on.

I noticed in your video of Lotte, her brother and u sitting on the table. As a deaf person, I notice these things so I dont know if u noticed it..but did u see Lotte looking at u the whole time while her brother still can turn away but still stay in the conversations. I could be wrong but it looked like Lotte was concentrating on hearing what u were saying to her. I cant base my judgement solely on one video itself but that was what I saw so..that's typical of many people with hearing loss...they have to concentrate hard to "hear". My dad is losing his hearing and I notice that he is showing signs on having to work at hearing what others are saying.

Can u imagine a child having to do that all day at school? That can wear a person out.

When I went through the drive up per CI I to had to concentrate really hard, alot of times I'd have my kids order and listen. Now I have fewer problems and actually use the drive up more. We're all different Shel, I like to communicate using my voice and you like to use ASL. That's fine. But there are those of us who do (or did) have to concentrate really hard to get stuff in school and going through the drive up. I do know how exhausting watching people talk can be. I also know how embarrrassing it is when you 'misread' the person speaking. Usually when they repeated to me my order I'd just agree with them.

Personally I don't think I've ever said that a child who is deaf should not have sign as part of their communication options.

 

[jillio]

There's cued speech. There's hearing aid. There's CART. I don't see a child with mild hearing loss losing out the full access (with hearing aid) compared to a child with much more severe hearing loss.

Are you profoundly deaf?

No, I'm not. Are you?