Cure for Down Syndrome...ban it!

Reba said:
DS = Down Syndrome

Down Syndrome is a birth defect caused by an extra chromosome in the baby. It is permanent.

Here's more explanation:

Down Syndrome Basics - What is Down Syndrome?

Down Syndrome causes mental retardation and physical health problems.

There is no cure for Down Syndrome.
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Oh i see. It is serious.
It is interesting. I see on reading!
 
I still don't get a response from someone. So, I just managed to find what I looked for.

Examination of fetuses after induced abortion for fetal abnormality—a follow-up study - Medeira - 2005 - Prenatal Diagnosis - Wiley Online Library

"In the North-Western Region we offer a service to examine fetuses aborted after the diagnosis of fetal abnormalities. Many obstetricians use this service. We examined 343 mid-trimester fetuses over the last 5 years: 215 following an abnormal scan and 128 abnormal amniotic fluid or villus findings. When necessary, investigations were performed. A post-mortem examination was always required. As a result of fetal investigation, the scan diagnosis was modified or refined in 91 cases (42·3 per cent). In three of these cases, no fetal abnormality was found. For the fetuses diagnosed as abnormal by amniocentesis or chorionic villus biopsy, in one (0·8 per cent) the pre-termination diagnosis was not confirmed. The results were similar to those of our previous 5-year study except (a) diagnosis of neural tube defects was rarely based on amniocentesis in the present study (2/62, 3·2 per cent) compared with the previous one (32/103, 31 per cent), and (b) renal abnormalities were more often diagnosed in the pre-termination scan in the present study. We conclude that the examination of aborted mid-trimester fetuses by dysmorphologists continues to improve diagnosis, allowing more accurate genetic counselling for the families."
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Of special note is that of 215 babies identified as having some fetal abnormality by ultrasound ("scan"), three had no fetal abnormality (not sure if it's statistically significant, but 3/215=1.4% chance of aborting a healthy baby following u/s diagnosis of a problem, or a 1.4% false-positive rate); and of the 128 babies identified as abnormal either by amniocentesis or chorionic villi sampling (CVS) -- cells from the baby are captured from either the amniotic fluid or the placenta itself, at a risk of miscarriage, and sent for genetic testing -- one of the babies killed for being abnormal was actually normal. -- And this is supposed to be the most accurate testing possible, but that statistically works out to a 0.8% false positive rate!

Also troubling is that in nearly half (42.3%) of the cases identified by ultrasound/scan, the autopsy did not confirm the original diagnosis -- it was "modified or refined". If memory serves me correctly, there were a few cases in which the autopsy found that the fetal abnormalities were *worse* than the scan suggested (thus there may have been a baby identified by u/s as likely having Downs Syndrome, but at autopsy was confirmed to have a lethal genetic defect, so likely would have been stillborn or died soon after birth, had he not been killed), or they were accurately but incompletely identified by scan (e.g., the baby was identified as likely having Downs Syndrome, which was correct, but the u/s missed that he also had a cleft palate). However, in most cases, the "modifications or refinements" were more minor than the u/s suggested -- thus a baby identified as likely having Downs Syndrome did not actually have Downs, but merely had club foot -- still an abnormality, but not nearly as major a defect as the u/s appeared to show.

What is so sad about these cases is that the majority of the time, the parents likely would not have aborted, had they known the truth. [Not that any abortion for fetal defect is acceptable, but it's like knowing someone committed suicide because he thought he lost all his money in a stock market crash, only for his survivors to find out afterward that his investment advisor had pulled most of it out of the stock market and put it into a safe place. The death that was tragic in any event is also shown to be completely pointless.]
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Sorry if that's not much help, but at least, I tried...
 
KarissaMann05 said:
I still don't get a response from someone. So, I just managed to find what I looked for.

Sorry if that's not much help, but at least, I tried...
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Interesting. Thank you for posting.
 
Three was found not to have fetal abnormality (normal) and the guy was questioning whether theis number out those found with abnormalities was statistically significa.nt or not. What the...?. Excuse me
 
kokonut said:
There was found not to have fetal abnormality (normal) and the guy was questioning whether the is number out those found with abnormalities was statistically significant or not. What the...? Excuse me.
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Fixed. Sorry for bother. :P

EDIT: And I actually copied one comment on the same link. Hence I fixed my post to correct two different quotes instead all in one.
 
There is good information - truth and myth.
Myths & Truths - National Down Syndrome Society

Based on my post #32 - it is not come from my idea because I learned from someone, especially some mothers concern about cost of medical condition and uncertain future with their child - that why they aborted their baby. On government side, they save tax money to not fund them for rest of their life - that's not my idea as well. I'm not sure if biased opinion from doctor could be contributed to patient that choose abortion because their baby has medical condition.

If mother has baby with DS and prefer to raise them - that's great idea and it is their choice.

It will nice if they find a cure for DS or narrower the symptoms.

The case for people with DS varies - some of them are smart and ability to work, some of them receive less serious symptoms. I found website from NDSS is true.
 
KarissaMann05 said:
Fixed. Sorry for bother. :P

EDIT: And I actually copied one comment on the same link. Hence I fixed my post to correct two different quotes instead all in one.
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"Three" is correct and not "there." I was talking about three fetuses that did not have any genetic abnormalities and were killed...and the guy was trying to figure out if the number was statistically significant. :/
 
KarissaMann05 said:
80% - 90% is still much higher, anyway. :) Yes, I'm aware of that. Don't treat me like idiot just because I'm "evil" pro-life witch to you. =/

Like what I said, I think it's awesome that they helped Down's...
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I'm pro-life.............for ME. I am giving YOU the choice over whether or not to have a baby.Why should I make a decision that should be YOUR decision? I don't know your circumstances.............pro-life for me,pro choice for you....the diffy between pro life and pro choice is that pro choice acknowledges that abortion is a sometimes necessary evil and a lot of times is the result of very difficult choices
I AM pro life....which is why I support birth control and healthy relationships and up to date informed choice regarding prenatal conditions. I'm with Bill Clinton....abortion should be safe,legal and RARE.Don't like abortion? Good....Examine the circumstances which make women feel like they have to make a very difficult choice, and work to change THOSE circumstances....Abortion is a symptom NOT the problem.The problem is the sociological circumstances!
 
Reba said:
I find some attitudes about DS people to be disturbing.

Prenatal positive test results for a DS baby? Just get rid of it. Abort it. Have a "perfect" baby later.

How about expanding that to prenatal testing for deafness? Positive results? Abort the deaf baby. After all, they require more time, effort and expense to raise. You can always have a "perfect" baby later.

Chilling and disappointing.
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On the other hand it isn't as black and white as all that......Down's can often result in extreme profound (read incompatible with life) birth defects,like heart problems etc......People think all Down's kids are like the mild mentally disabled kids.....not quite...there's a huge range of effect ranging from nereologically affected but still high functioning (like Corky in Life Goes On) to severe/profound mental disabilty with extreme medical fragility.......
 
dogmom said:
Some thoughts -

I personally support the mother's right to choose from a generic standpoint - that is, in terms of the whole

BUT

I disagree with aborting purely because of the kid having Down. Or because of deaf. I disagree with aborting because of some alleged desire for individual "perfection" and/or some philosophical ideology.

In case medical testing determines that the child is actually sickly, suffering, poor quality of life, then that is something else.
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Agreed....There is a HUGE difference between aborting b/c of dhh,or other relatively mild birth disabilties and aborting b/c of anacephaly or holoproscencephy or hydranencephaly....(three very much incompatible with life cephalies)
The thing is with profound birth defects an abortion is like turning off a life support machine on a terminally ill patient.........abortion for mild disabilties is like shooting someone b/c they have a cold.
 
deafdyke said:
On the other hand it isn't as black and white as all that......Down's can often result in extreme profound (read incompatible with life) birth defects,like heart problems etc......People think all Down's kids are like the mild mentally disabled kids.....not quite...there's a huge range of effect ranging from nereologically affected but still high functioning (like Corky in Life Goes On) to severe/profound mental disabilty with extreme medical fragility.......
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Yes, I know. Someone close to me is going thru that experience now. Their baby (a surviving twin) was born with Down Syndrome last year and has already had major surgeries on the digestive system and heart. They've struggled thru emergency health crises, Life Flights, Ronald McDonald house, long leaves of absence from work, letting the grandparents take care of the other kids, out of state hospital stays, etc. It's been a rough year. It's been physically, emotionally, and financially draining for their entire family. But their baby is a fighter, and loved by all. Their baby will never be a high functioning Corky on TV but that doesn't matter to them.

And yes, they knew the baby was going to be born with Down's.
 
just to clear things up

deafdyke said:
The retarded community?!?!?! It's intellectucal disabilty now FYI....
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Pc gone mad in my option. If you meet the medical definition FFS use the correct terminology please

Example: I HATE people getting pissy about use of the word spastic I am spastic and DX as such so I use the word to describe my symptoms and my jaw hits the floor when Im asked not to

deafdyke said:
But,yeah I see a lot of the warm and fuzzy thinking when it comes to Downs and other mentally disabled folks.....this is a population that IS indeed truely limited and impaired........They're cute when they're little....but it's so sad knowing that they will always mentally and emotioally be a child.....
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Agreed and thats why my heart breaks for their poor parents in all but the "I love being a special mum/dad" cases

A lot of these parents were lied to by professionals who said I can make your child independent using my programme(JRC springs to mind) and come the time where the child has to move out of home the only safe placement is a still group home.

KarissaMann05 said:
Banned from the society? That's a bit of cruel. It's no different from deaf people are being excluded from the society. If you really don't believe "gross" and such "burden" people do not have a reason to live, then you should agree deaf and hoh people do not deserve their existence, too.
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Did I say/type any of things? Just so you know I do part-take in mixed training events with the special Olympic community AND the organisers are aware of views

KarissaMann05 said:
I find it's interesting that you have no problem with calling them a "retarded" people...
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The rationale behind calling them a retard people is it is the correct term for that pupalation.

KarissaMann05 said:
Five percents is still too much to me.

9 out of 10 Down's are aborted. I think it's really shame. I'm glad that they are working on something to solve it for Down's.
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Agreed and thats why I'm anti the current testing and would chose to have a DS baby adopted out instead of having the testing done and aborting
 
deafdyke said:
I'm pro-life.............for ME. I am giving YOU the choice over whether or not to have a baby.Why should I make a decision that should be YOUR decision? I don't know your circumstances.............pro-life for me,pro choice for you....the diffy between pro life and pro choice is that pro choice acknowledges that abortion is a sometimes necessary evil and a lot of times is the result of very difficult choices
I AM pro life....which is why I support birth control and healthy relationships and up to date informed choice regarding prenatal conditions. I'm with Bill Clinton....abortion should be safe,legal and RARE.Don't like abortion? Good....Examine the circumstances which make women feel like they have to make a very difficult choice, and work to change THOSE circumstances....Abortion is a symptom NOT the problem.The problem is the sociological circumstances!
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(Sighs) ... So, my previous posts in here are really "imposed" on others' personal decisions? Eh, okay...

Well, look, it's fine if you believe in the right to "choose." But, I am not here to fight anybody, anyway. It's not worthy to own you an explanation about why I am pro-life, and I disagree with abortion "is" a symptom or "Don't Like, Don't Have One" argument. Because it will get us nowhere, anyway. I don't know why you still treat me like shit. :|

At the least, you and I think it's great to see Down's get better treatment, don't we agree? If you're really attention to my previous posts, it's pretty clear that I support the idea. Why not? It could save more Down's people than kill more of them... 8-9 out of 10 is still too much to me.

Yeah. I am not against birth controls at all. I support BCs, healthy relationships, BCs and sex education. Why the hell not? I believe those studies already showed they're very effective. Europe is good example. Plus, I'm not a Christian, so I don't read Bible very much anymore. I can't understand what's crime about useful birth controls or sex education?? I used both of them and did effect me a big time! It's good healthy for my body, tho. :)
 
I do agree with Karissa there that it's insulting. That term is currently meant in a derogatory manner to equate with "stupid". Most people - no matter what conditions or circumstances they have - do not like to be called stupid.
 
Grummer said:
wtf?:lol:
that's really dumb of you
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Tauranga very red neck grum.....i have difficulty with this as the mother of D/s all i can say if she been my first child i would not have had a second...i also think to abort using Downs as the reason not good it better to say aborting baby on health issues.
this opens doors on very iffy issues saying a cure
 
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