Crack the myth: Reverse Audism does NOT exist.

[VacationGuy234]

And what are the chances that a non-speaking adult would make millions in NFL? If you are going to list such examples, then you are proving that it's practically a one in a million chance a child would survive and succeed enormously despite being left out in classrooms and social settings. Due to stats - yeah, the deaf demographic is not doing that great economically. As you say, they're "surviving" - if they're still alive and breathing, then they're "surviving". that's not a good indicator that their parents were well-equipped or made the right choices.

To me, like jillio illustrated - there's surviving (whatever that means - surviving failing school? surviving non-existent social lives? Subsisting on welfare or minimum wage jobs?) then there's thriving because their parents made the right choices and selected the appropriate services due to being well-equipped and well-informed that gives the child a better chance to succeed as adults.

I disagree that audism is the reason that deaf children don't do well in school. It may be mismanagement of special education funds, but I don't believe it is audism. I don't believe the school system is systematically keeping children down because they are deaf.

I'm not arguing that they wouldn't do better if they had better services. I grew up in a mainstream school and to my knowledge nobody was turned away because of their hearing.

 

[posts from hell]

I disagree that audism is the reason that deaf children don't do well in school. It may be mismanagement of special education funds, but I don't believe it is audism. I don't believe the school system is systematically keeping children down because they are deaf.

I'm not arguing that they wouldn't do better if they had better services. I grew up in a mainstream school and to my knowledge nobody was turned away because of their hearing.

I'd think youre naive.

 

[jillio]

I disagree that audism is the reason that deaf children don't do well in school. It may be mismanagement of special education funds, but I don't believe it is audism. I don't believe the school system is systematically keeping children down because they are deaf.

I'm not arguing that they wouldn't do better if they had better services. I grew up in a mainstream school and to my knowledge nobody was turned away because of their hearing.

Question: Why aren't they getting better services?

Answer: because the services are being decided on and provided by people with a hearing perspective. That, by definition, is audsim.

 

[DeafCaroline]

I disagree that audism is the reason that deaf children don't do well in school. It may be mismanagement of special education funds, but I don't believe it is audism. I don't believe the school system is systematically keeping children down because they are deaf.

I'm not arguing that they wouldn't do better if they had better services. I grew up in a mainstream school and to my knowledge nobody was turned away because of their hearing.

Parents that opt to put their deaf children in a hearing school are consciously or unconsciously committing an audist act. Schools that fail to accomodate the deaf student's needs because they are not equipped for them - that would be because of parents' decision to enrol their deaf child in them.

Deaf children don't enrol themselves into mainstream.

 

[CSign]

Parents that opt to put their deaf children in a hearing school are consciously or unconsciously committing an audist act. Schools that fail to accomodate the deaf student's needs because they are not equipped for them - that would be because of parents' decision to enrol their deaf child in them.

Deaf children don't enrol themselves into mainstream.

In many places children don't have a wide variety of placement options to choose from. Beyond that, some placements may or may not be appropriate for any number of reasons. In other words, sometimes there really aren't any other program options available to them.

 

[jillio]

In many places children don't have a wide variety of placement options to choose from. Beyond that, some placements may or may not be appropriate for any number of reasons. In other words, sometimes there really aren't any other program options available to them.

Children don't make the choice regarding placement. Parents do. We see on here often enough that if the child had been allowed to make the choice, they would have made a choice quite different than the one that was made for them.

If the area one is in cannot provide the best services for one's child, then one has a decision to make regarding the importance of the quality of services that child is going to receive.

 

[rolling7]

I've never seen jillio say anything close to "it's not possible for any minority group to be racist or prejudiced."

Along come jillio (post #122) to make you look like a fool.

 

[jillio]

Along come jillio (post #122) to make you look like a fool.

Dude, could you address the topic? If you want to play out your silly little grudges, take it to PM. You are beginning to get annoying. And while you're at it, try to figure out the difference between someone having prejudice based on race, and actually being in the position to commit racism.

 

[DeafCaroline]

rolling7 - there's racism then there's acts of discrimination based on racism. Like for example - there is a white person who believes white people are naturally more intelligent than black people. That's racism.

Acts of discrimination based on racism would be examples like laws - laws forbidding black people to sit in the front of the bus. Then there are more subtle acts of discrimination like putting change on the counter instead of into the customer's hand or not hiring a black person or renting a dwelling to a black person.

You need to slow down and read what she actually wrote. And for the record, I have never resorted to calling you names or belittling you with terms like "make you look like a fool".

I would appreciate it if you exercise the same courtesy to me.

 

[deafskeptic]

Along come jillio (post #122) to make you look like a fool.

Read it again. I'm afraid you look like a fool. She has said blacks can be prejudiced or stereotyping whites but since they are the minority group, they can not be racist against whites nor do they have the power to reverse the effects of racism. It is whites who are in a position of power - not the blacks.

 

[deafskeptic]

rolling7 - there's racism then there's acts of discrimination based on racism. Like for example - there is a white person who believes white people are naturally more intelligent than black people. That's racism.

Acts of discrimination based on racism would be examples like laws - laws forbidding black people to sit in the front of the bus. Then there are more subtle acts of discrimination like putting change on the counter instead of into the customer's hand or not hiring a black person or renting a dwelling to a black person.

You need to slow down and read what she actually wrote. And for the record, I have never resorted to calling you names or belittling you with terms like "make you look like a fool".

I would appreciate it if you exercise the same courtesy to me.

You're a better person than I am. :P

 

[FireTiger]

Some deaf children are failing because they have to pretend to not be deaf- this is the issue.

Again, it's the only condition where 'normal' is to pretend to be without the condition... *Smh*

No one would expect a blind person to read a ink-printed book... why are deaf -expected- to carry on conversations in verbal language?

And if the deaf choose not to use spoken language, or can't use spoken language they are left out of the dominant (hearing) society...

 

[DeafCaroline]

Some deaf children are failing because they have to pretend to not be deaf- this is the issue.

Again, it's the only condition where 'normal' is to pretend to be without the condition... *Smh*

No one would expect a blind person to read a ink-printed book... why are deaf -expected- to carry on conversations in verbal language?

And if the deaf choose not to use spoken language, or can't use spoken language they are left out of the dominant (hearing) society...

This depends...if a deaf person cannot speak but can lipread - they can lipread and use pen and paper to communicate. If a deaf person cannot speak and cannot lipread well, pen and paper again. If a deaf person cannot speak nor lipread and chooses not to employ other methods of communication (pen and paper, cell phones, relay services, interpreter services, etc etc etc), then yes, they are left out of the hearing society.

I am thinking of deaf people who work, own homes, have hearing friends and family members, who interact with the hearing world in stores, restaurants, service counters, etc etc. Some of them don't speak and some of them don't speak nor lipread well but they were flexible and adaptable enough to find other ways to communicate.

 

[deafskeptic]

This depends...if a deaf person cannot speak but can lipread - they can lipread and use pen and paper to communicate. If a deaf person cannot speak and cannot lipread well, pen and paper again. If a deaf person cannot speak nor lipread and chooses not to employ other methods of communication (pen and paper, cell phones, relay services, interpreter services, etc etc etc), then yes, they are left out of the hearing society.

I am thinking of deaf people who work, own homes, have hearing friends and family members, who interact with the hearing world in stores, restaurants, service counters, etc etc. Some of them don't speak and some of them don't speak nor lipread well but they were flexible and adaptable enough to find other ways to communicate.

While I agree with much of what FireTiger said, I also think you've raised an excellent point regarding deaf who are not able to speak or lipread.

 

[jillio]

This depends...if a deaf person cannot speak but can lipread - they can lipread and use pen and paper to communicate. If a deaf person cannot speak and cannot lipread well, pen and paper again. If a deaf person cannot speak nor lipread and chooses not to employ other methods of communication (pen and paper, cell phones, relay services, interpreter services, etc etc etc), then yes, they are left out of the hearing society.

I am thinking of deaf people who work, own homes, have hearing friends and family members, who interact with the hearing world in stores, restaurants, service counters, etc etc. Some of them don't speak and some of them don't speak nor lipread well but they were flexible and adaptable enough to find other ways to communicate.

And why did they have to be the ones to adapt? They were not a member of dominant society. That is what oppression is all about. That is the very foundation of audism. The hearing are not forced to make these adaptations. If it were not a case of the dominant holding power based in their own perspective, adaptation would go both ways.

 

[rolling7]

That is not reverse audism.

Entitlement? Laziness? Perhaps. But it is not reverse audism. You're not even near the ballpark on this one, dude.

Answer this

a) If the hearing stick it to the deaf, what is that? (the OP calls it audism)

b) If the deaf stick it to the hearing, what is that?

b is the reverse of a

 

[deafskeptic]

Answer this

a) If the hearing stick it to the deaf, what is that? (the OP calls it audism)

b) If the deaf stick out to the hearing, what is that?

b is the reverse of a

Deaf are still in the minority. So that's not gonna work.

 

[jillio]

Answer this

a) If the hearing stick it to the deaf, what is that? (the OP calls it audism)

b) If the deaf stick out to the hearing, what is that?

b is the reverse of a

We are not talking about sex. We are talking about complicated sociolgical phenomena. Try to elevate your replies to the level the topic deserves.

 

[dogmom]

YES, this is all about who holds power.
sometimes people like to be blind to that
but they have that power.....privilege...

"reverse-anything" is some phrase that seems to be thrown about when the dominant group refuses to acknowledge their own privilege

 

[deafskeptic]

YES, this is all about who holds power.
sometimes people like to be blind to that
but they have that power.....privilege...

"reverse-anything" is some phrase that seems to be thrown about when the dominant group refuses to acknowledge their own privilege

These words are at the crux of the matter.