Could budget cuts in the mainstream lead to increased enrollement at deaf schools?

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posts from hell said:
Just a friendly reminder - You don't have to reply to Faire Jour at all. Just ignore her and let her ramble away.

Hopefully we can do that and she goes away into the sunset, and the forum is back to its friendly ways.
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why do you want to encourage close-mindedness?

Isn't it good to have a conversation about how to improve deaf schools and deaf education? Deaf school enrollments are way down, and why? Because they are often not meeting the needs of today's deaf child. If we want deaf kids to attend deaf schools and learn ASL, the schools need to provide the things those kids need, right from the start. And that isn't happening. That is why they are often viewed as the "last resort" placement. Maybe if they provided ALL the appropriate things, parents would seek them out!
 
faire_jour said:
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why do you want to encourage close-mindedness?
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I don't care about what you have to say. Your undertone is just horrible all the times. It's not about "close-mindedness."

I am just reminding the general populace that they simply don't have to respond to you.
 
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posts from hell said:
faire_jour said:
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why do you want to encourage close-mindedness?
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I don't care about what you have to say. Your undertone is just horrible all the times. It's not about "close-mindedness."

I am just reminding the general populace that they simply don't have to respond to you.
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it is about being closeminded. You believe there is only one successful way of being deaf and it is your way. You say that everyone else is brainwashed, backward idiots. That is BS.
 
faire_jour said:
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it is about being closeminded. You believe there is only one successful way of being deaf and it is your way. You say that everyone else is brainwashed, backward idiots. That is BS.
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I would like you to produce evidence of that.

One can't see past their eyelids as long as they are in that frame.
 
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posts from hell said:
faire_jour said:
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it is about being closeminded. You believe there is only one successful way of being deaf and it is your way. You say that everyone else is brainwashed, backward idiots. That is BS.
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I would like you to produce evidence of that.

One can't see past their eyelids as long as they are in that frame.
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you have very clearly, repeatedly, said that oral deaf people who choose not to use ASL are socially backward and that their views are from being brainwashed by hearing people.
 
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posts from hell said:
faire_jour said:
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you have very clearly, repeatedly, said that oral deaf people who choose not to use ASL are socially backward and that their views are from being brainwashed by hearing people.
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Produce it.
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the "deaf people who put down asl thread" and every time you respond to HOHtopics
 
faire_jour said:
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the "deaf people who put down asl thread" and every time you respond to HOHtopics
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I'm going to re-read the thread, and Hohtopics - I address him directly because he's putting the deaf in the wrong frame, not addressing oral deaf in general.
 
Deaf school enrollments are way down, and why? Because they are often not meeting the needs of today's deaf child. If we want deaf kids to attend deaf schools and learn ASL, the schools need to provide the things those kids need, right from the start. And that isn't happening. That is why they are often viewed as the "last resort" placement
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WHAT? No. Dwindling Deaf (and other specialized school) placements have been dwindling since 1974 when mainstreaming became the norm. School placement is VERY political. The adminstraotrs of mainstream schools don't give a SHIT about educating kids with disabilties. ALL they care about is the money the kids bring.
They give you minimal accomondations...........NOT something that's all inclusive or what's best for the kids...........did you know that enrollment is not only dwindling with ASL based schools but ALSO oral schools? It's a lot more complicated then just assuming that Deaf Schools don't offer hoh style support. MANY OF THEM DO!!!!! But the thing is, the reason why it's not offered in a large group "standardized" curriculm is b/c you've got a wide range of abilties and disabilties and needs!
 
deafdyke said:
WHAT? No. Dwindling Deaf (and other specialized school) placements have been dwindling since 1974 when mainstreaming became the norm. School placement is VERY political. The adminstraotrs of mainstream schools don't give a SHIT about educating kids with disabilties. ALL they care about is the money the kids bring.
They give you minimal accomondations...........NOT something that's all inclusive or what's best for the kids...........did you know that enrollment is not only dwindling with ASL based schools but ALSO oral schools? It's a lot more complicated then just assuming that Deaf Schools don't offer hoh style support. MANY OF THEM DO!!!!! But the thing is, the reason why it's not offered in a large group "standardized" curriculm is b/c you've got a wide range of abilties and disabilties and needs!
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Yeah, how would you know that $9 para professional will be doing a top quality job?
 
Yeah, how would you know that $9 para professional will be doing a top quality job?
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Agreed. Not to mention that the resources that a dhh program or school has BLOWS a minimal accomondations placement out of the water.
Seriously faire joure, you think it's hard trying to get accomondations from a poorly funded/poorly resourced school for the deaf? The BIGGEST reason why Deaf Schools still exist, even after almost 40 years of mainstreaming being the norm, is b/c most mainstream schools are designed for the average kid..........You have NO fucking CLUE!
 
if I'm not mistaken, if she had to choose between:

- a deaf school with no oral
or
- a school with oral

she would choose oral? even though she supports both ASL and oral? and that's the contention? i mean, if she had an option like Grendel does, wouldn't she choose that?

why so...harsh?

(and doesn't her daughter speak ASL?)
 
a deaf school with no oral
or
- a school with oral

she would choose oral? even though she supports both ASL and oral? and that's the contention? i mean, if she had an option like Grendel does, wouldn't she choose that?

why so...harsh?

(and doesn't her daughter speak ASL?)
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She is completely and totally missing that many State Deaf Schools, as well as many good regional programs offer very decent spoken language intervention. Heck there are HOH kids....HOH kids enrolled in a lot of them! And there's been no complaints about the quality of services and stuff.
 
TheOracle said:
if I'm not mistaken, if she had to choose between:

- a deaf school with no oral
or
- a school with oral

she would choose oral? even though she supports both ASL and oral? and that's the contention? i mean, if she had an option like Grendel does, wouldn't she choose that?

why so...harsh?

(and doesn't her daughter speak ASL?)
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Nobody speaks ASL. They sign it.
 
okay, but when people say 'bilingual', sign and speak become synonymous. :p

technically i can be bilingual if i speak English and can read hebrew, but that's sketch. the average person means "the ability to speak in more than one language" if they say "bilingual".

but if you start saying, "She speaks one and signs the other" it sounds like "sign" requires less skill than "speak". And that's not true.

if i were referring to a student, i wouldn't say, "she signs ASL and she's learning English" because it has an unintended inference that signing not a language.

but if i were talking directly to you, i may ask, "do you sign"?

it's semantics.
 
TheOracle said:
okay, but when people say 'bilingual', sign and speak become synonymous. :p
technically i can be bilingual if i speak English and can read hebrew, but that's sketch. the average person means the ability to speak in more than one language.

but if you start saying, "She speaks one and signs the other" it sounds like "sign" requires less skill than "speak". And that's not true.

if i were referring to a student, i wouldn't say, "she signs ASL and she's learning English" because it has an unintended inference that signing not a language.

but if i were talking directly to you, i may ask, "do you sign"?

it's semantics.
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No. This is something we've discussed in this forum over a long time. ASL is absolutely not a spoken language. It is signed. There is a completely different syntax and grammar to it than any other language.

You would write and speak English the same. You would write and speak Hebrew the same. However, you cannot write and speak ASL the same. You do not "speak" ASL.

And just because we reference to it as being signed doesn't mean it requires less skill than speaking. If you're worried about semantics in terms of "speaking" and "signing" languages, you can simply refer to that person as being bilingual (or trilingual or however many languages that person is proficient in.)

Your last sentence "she signs ASL and she's learning English" could easily be re-phrased as "she's learning two languages, ASL and English".
 
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