Could budget cuts in the mainstream lead to increased enrollement at deaf schools?

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The fact is, that it is the law. Team members can disagree, but the student isn't able to hear everything that's being said. So if the student needs an interpreter, CART, an FM system or all of the above then they can get it. I'm not saying it's easy, but it can be done.
The law does stand behind students with "special needs" and there is a reason for that. People just need to familiarize themselves with federal education laws, and their states educational laws. With that information they will be better armed, and will feel more confident advocating for their child.
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Yes it's the law, but the law can be interpreted a multitude of ways. The legal protection just seems to be very weak.
They CAN get accomondations, but when you request them, (especially if the kid is smart or doing well already) it is a nightmare!!!!! You're generally treated like you're one of those parents who shopped around for a diganoses or whose kid actually has enviromental stuff going on (ie their mom is a recovering drug addict and things are rather unstable in the house) ...it is HELL!
 
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Btw, parents can't get everything they want. The school board will take it to court if they have to.
 
"They CAN get accomondations, but when you request them, (especially if the kid is smart or doing well already) it is a nightmare!!!!!" DD

The law explicitly states, a child "doesn't need to be retained or failing to qualify for special education and related services."
So even if the student is doing well, by virtue of the hearing loss they are required to provide whatever accomodations necessary to provide that student with equal access to the curriculum.
 
CSign said:
"They CAN get accomondations, but when you request them, (especially if the kid is smart or doing well already) it is a nightmare!!!!!" DD

The law explicitly states, a child "doesn't need to be retained or failing to qualify for special education and related services."
So even if the student is doing well, by virtue of the hearing loss they are required to provide whatever accomodations necessary to provide that student with equal access to the curriculum.
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I should clarify that last statement I made... They need to provide that student with whatever is necessary to give them equal access to the curriculum and social settings (recess, lunch etc.)
 
CSign said:
I should clarify that last statement I made... They need to provide that student with whatever is necessary to give them equal access to the curriculum and social settings (recess, lunch etc.)
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Unfortunately, it doesnt happen for every deaf child.
 
Accomodations and modifications of the I.E.Ps.are to assure appropriate public education.

They do not assure full access to appropriate social development.

That's a key gap we cannot forget.

In general, deaf education is in a serious crisis. It's really time to stop the nonsense of "my way or the highway" philisophy, to stop the "one size fit all" mindset, and to stop the "wtf are YOU coming from" slurs. We need to go back to square one. Individualized education for each and every child with educational programming that is based on data, assessments, and goals developed by an IEP committee, including the child when appropriate.

When will we stop the bullshit and get our act together for the sake of our children?
 
The law explicitly states, a child "doesn't need to be retained or failing to qualify for special education and related services."
So even if the student is doing well, by virtue of the hearing loss they are required to provide whatever accomodations necessary to provide that student with equal access to the curriculum.
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Agreed. That's so that blind/low vision kids, and dhh kids and other low incidence disabilty kids can access services like 'terps, etc. Otherwise, you'd get schools denying honor roll kids FMs and preferential seating and other minimal/hoh style accomondations. Because trust me, if it weren't for the fact that disabled kids bring a lot of money to school districts, they'd be told "Oh just go to the school for the deaf/blind/intellectucally disabled/autistic We can't serve you."
HOWEVER, there's also the fact that there was that case where a HOH DODA (with a moderate loss) was mainstreamed. She was doing OK,(had traditional hoh accomondations) but her parents thought she could do much better with a 'terp. They took the case to the court. In the court's decision, they ruled that sped law did not mean that it could be used to acheive strict equality for disabled kids.
 
The Rowley case....that's it!!!!!!!
Accomodations and modifications of the I.E.Ps.are to assure appropriate public education.

They do not assure full access to appropriate social development.
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Not only that, in the end it's the school who generally decides what appropreate accomondations even are! And generally, public schools aren't interested in educating kids with disabilties. All they care about is the money disabled kids bring, and getting away with providing the least amount of accomondations. Schools can give hoh kids minimal accomondations and STILL be said to be giving them a FAPE.
Faire joure, you have very little experiance with the mainstream experiance. Mainstreaming (both solotaire and dhh program based)is NOT something new or unique to the 2000's.
And the problems with it are STILL sadly going on. Some kids do really well yes, but overall most of those kids are the kids who would have done well even BEFORE 1974, when mainstreaming became the norm!
 
Deaf schools, generally, suck.

They do. I'm sorry to say that. There's no way in hell I would put my child in some deaf schools...which leaves me with public or private school options. I like CSign's idea - magnet school. I almost was able to erect a charter school for deaf/hh/codas but the deaf school of that state was successful in stopping it. And that deaf school is NOT doing a good job in many areas. :(

SOOOOOOO frustrating!!!!
 
deafbajagal said:
Deaf schools, generally, suck.

They do. I'm sorry to say that. There's no way in hell I would put my child in some deaf schools...which leaves me with public or private school options. I like CSign's idea - magnet school. I almost was able to erect a charter school for deaf/hh/codas but the deaf school of that state was successful in stopping it. And that deaf school is NOT doing a good job in many areas. :(

SOOOOOOO frustrating!!!!
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Really? I must have experienced only good deaf schools. *shrug*

Generally suck is kinda making a blanket statement unless you have a different view of them now.

If memory serves me right, didnt you say that deaf schools are where a deaf child would have access to everything? I am confused to where you stand when it comes to Deaf education.
 
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deafbajagal said:
Deaf schools, generally, suck.

They do. I'm sorry to say that. There's no way in hell I would put my child in some deaf schools...which leaves me with public or private school options. I like CSign's idea - magnet school. I almost was able to erect a charter school for deaf/hh/codas but the deaf school of that state was successful in stopping it. And that deaf school is NOT doing a good job in many areas. :(

SOOOOOOO frustrating!!!!
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I'm sorry to hear that, but I disagree.

As a former student of the Deaf school, I saw most students didn't really eager to learn, yet they whined that Deaf's education is too low. But another students did want to learn more but it was not enough to get some help. If I remember correctly, I visited the girl dorm and there were more students lived in the dorm. I sometimes wondered about how their relationships between students and parents went? Remember, students only stayed at their homes each weekend...

I'm sure I saw teachers did their jobs too. No, I don't deny that teachers are not prefect. Unfortunately, some teachers were sometime tired to teach students for various reasons. I did see a few teachers tried to explain something so clear, yet some students had their limit on the knowledge. One thing that I don't like is students seem to expect too much from teachers for everything. For an explain, they expected them to teach students, yet they didn't feel bother to study on their own...

To be honest, I wish I was so much eager to understand each subject when I was a middle schooler and freshman. Too bad, I didn't do it until I was 10th grade and started to learn on my own...

But I am really happy that I was at the Deaf school where you can social with Deaf kids, through I was not very social person. It's better to chat with somebody than being alone in a public school. So what I understand, it would be much better if they only learned at much earlier age like today and then...

Why I said this? Because I'm so sick of people picked on Deaf schools, especially OSD. Too bad, they hated and supported closing Deaf schools. Sighs. Well, sorry if I'm sound defensive a bit... but I would prefer to defend Deaf schools than let them picking on those.
 
I realize that my last statement might be a little harsh, and it doesn't surprise me that folks will get defensive over deaf schools.

When I went to a deaf school as a student, it actually SAVED me. I've written several accounts about that experience. It's an experience I hope every child has...the feeling of being able to connect to people, to understand and be understood, and to experience DIRECT education.

I'm speaking from a point of a view of someone who's looking at deaf schools, on a whole scale.

Every deaf school is different...different criteria, philosophies, approaches...some schools only use Total Communication, some use Bi-Bi, some strongly encourages Sim-Com, etc. Often a state has only one deaf school...you get what you get. It's unfair! Why should I as a parent be stuck with "it is what it is." A deaf school should serve ALL deaf and hh students from ALL walks of life. The hard truth, and it makes me unpopular to say it aloud, is that most of them do not. Also there's this common theory that if a child is making good academic progress, than s/he should be mainstreamed because the deaf school is too easy...and in the meantime, they are accepting more and more students with additional disabilities (which is fine, as they should accept all deaf/hh students if the placement is appropriate)...however, many of the teachers are not trained to handle a class with students who have multiple disabilities, to the point that deafness is not the primary disability.

Instead, they should be enriching the curriculm for students who are making good progress with the general curriculum.

Mainstreaming programs aren't faring well either, but for other reasons.

What I'm trying to say...is that all placement options have "cons." Just because it's a deaf school doesn't mean it will be a good placement.

And sadly, a deaf school doesn't assure social opportunities for deaf kids...as I learned the hard way at my last job, in which hearing teachers were permitted to tape their students hands together so they would stop talking during class, to talk in front of the students and staff without talking, and other things in which audism prevails. Is this an environment I'd recommend to any deaf child. No. Hell no.
 
Deaf schools, generally, suck.

They do. I'm sorry to say that. There's no way in hell I would put my child in some deaf schools...which leaves me with public or private school options. I like CSign's idea - magnet school. I almost was able to erect a charter school for deaf/hh/codas but the deaf school of that state was successful in stopping it. And that deaf school is NOT doing a good job in many areas.
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Then again, some of the mainstream formal programs are pretty good. And yes, I agree with you. There are some pretty damn impressive deaf schools, there are some pretty damn impressive formal dhh programs and so on.
But there are also some really sucky deaf schools and programs too. But then again, you can also say that about hearing schools. I doubt that anyone would rave about the schools in East St. Louis, or Gary Indiana or Camden NJ (highest rate of drive by shootings) or lots of mainstream schools. They ARE improving a lot. And they are WAY better then blind schools. Did you know most students at blind schools have multiple disabilties? (and not just mild multiple issues?)
We do need to reform Deaf Ed......and a lot of the schools ARE getting reformed or they are coming out with new approaches and innovations.
 
deafbajagal said:
I realize that my last statement might be a little harsh, and it doesn't surprise me that folks will get defensive over deaf schools.

When I went to a deaf school as a student, it actually SAVED me. I've written several accounts about that experience. It's an experience I hope every child has...the feeling of being able to connect to people, to understand and be understood, and to experience DIRECT education.

I'm speaking from a point of a view of someone who's looking at deaf schools, on a whole scale.

Every deaf school is different...different criteria, philosophies, approaches...some schools only use Total Communication, some use Bi-Bi, some strongly encourages Sim-Com, etc. Often a state has only one deaf school...you get what you get. It's unfair! Why should I as a parent be stuck with "it is what it is." A deaf school should serve ALL deaf and hh students from ALL walks of life. The hard truth, and it makes me unpopular to say it aloud, is that most of them do not. Also there's this common theory that if a child is making good academic progress, than s/he should be mainstreamed because the deaf school is too easy...and in the meantime, they are accepting more and more students with additional disabilities (which is fine, as they should accept all deaf/hh students if the placement is appropriate)...however, many of the teachers are not trained to handle a class with students who have multiple disabilities, to the point that deafness is not the primary disability.

Instead, they should be enriching the curriculm for students who are making good progress with the general curriculum.

Mainstreaming programs aren't faring well either, but for other reasons.

What I'm trying to say...is that all placement options have "cons." Just because it's a deaf school doesn't mean it will be a good placement.

And sadly, a deaf school doesn't assure social opportunities for deaf kids...as I learned the hard way at my last job, in which hearing teachers were permitted to tape their students hands together so they would stop talking during class, to talk in front of the students and staff without talking, and other things in which audism prevails. Is this an environment I'd recommend to any deaf child. No. Hell no.
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Bold font - Of course, a Deaf school is not always good placement for general reasons. I well aware that. Yes, you're right about almost each state only have one school for the Deaf. It shouldn't happen... It would be nice if there are more schools in any state...

Again, my concern is... would any Deaf kid can survive without Deaf schools in future? There are all schools are probably going to slowly and completely closed within years and years and years and go on... because of technology and abilities are still so valued for the human's health.
 
A majority of the problems with the deaf schools has to do with the fact they are swamped with cleaning up the mess that mainstreamed education has made.

Kids come to the deaf school often have "failed" in public school, which strains the deaf school because they are having to play catch-up. Many mainstreamed education programs do not assess appropriately, which can take up to two or three years to assess a child to determine appropriate class placement. Deaf schools have much more pressure than ever before. For example, it's now more important for the teacher to be certified in the subject area than in deaf ed. thanks to NCLB. This impacts the class such as instruction, obviously.
 
a
nd in the meantime, they are accepting more and more students with additional disabilities (which is fine, as they should accept all deaf/hh students if the placement is appropriate)...however, many of the teachers are not trained to handle a class with students who have multiple disabilities, to the point that deafness is not the primary disability.
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Oh definitly agreed! In that case, I do think that there needs to be an academy within the school specificly for kids who have issues where deafness is not the primary disablity.
Are you talking about the severely disabled kids, or the autistic kids who just happen to be dhh? I like what Austine is doing, creating a curricuum for autistic dhh kids.
Instead, they should be enriching the curriculm for students who are making good progress with the general curriculum.
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Maybe a good idea might be to offer enrichement programs for solotaire mainstreamed kids.....They have what are called short term placements at blind schools to work on skills of blindness.

What I'm trying to say...is that all placement options have "cons." Just because it's a deaf school doesn't mean it will be a good placement.
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That's true. But a lot of times, they're better then they used to be. Back in the 80's, deaf school (except for the oral ones) meant mostly intellectucially disabled kids with a handful of academic kids. They have revamped that a LOT. It's still not awesome, but that's b/c deaf school is seen as the last resort placement :(
 
Ditto bajagirl......that's another HUGE problem....that most of the kids who end up at deaf schools are kids for whom the mainstream wasn't a good fit. A big part of the reason why the private oral programs (Clarke, CID, etc) are shrinking in the graded school part, is b/c they got a lot better at identifying the kids who needed ASL sooner.
We really need to identify kids who would benifit from deaf school placement earlier somehow.
 
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