Cochlear recalls Nucleus CI500

Jiro said:
ah! sounds like my parents! and handful of ADers in here too! I do learn from other deafies who went thru different experience than mine but in the end... we all share same similarities. We were denied of ASL and we were subjected to oralism. Why? Because our parents did what they think were right for us and they thought we were doing just fine and thriving in that environment. We were smart and resilient too.
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Don't blame nowadays parents for mistakes your parents made. Cutting you off from communication is a terrible thing to do...
"we" - as in "parents with deaf children that can hear" have not cut off communication... on the contrairy... That we choose CI instead of ASL is a choice.. You might not agree (why not btw) but you cannot assume your experiences are the same as that of a deaf child that can hear, speak, listen and enjoy the sounds of nature....
You and that child are miles & miles apart..

Jiro said:
So is there anything I can learn from hearing parents? I haven't found any. And I haven't gotten any straightforward answer from hearing parents as to why they're stubborn and combative with us.
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Had to smile at that last sentence.... YOU have nothing to learn. You dont get answers (to questions fabricated from rediculous assupmtions and wishful thinking) and then you say that we are stubborn, we are combative?
:dunno:
 
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Jiro said:
....
So you're telling us that we deaf people have something to learn from hearing people when it comes to raising deaf children in hearing environment?
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What do you know about a raising a deaf child with CI in a hearing environment?
Please... enlighten me..

If you cant.. then you can learn a lot.... if you want to...
 
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Buffalo said:
Sorry, it is the hearing people who are being stubborn to the Deaf people's protests ever since the Milan Conference. You don't really understand us. You have to read the history. Lipreading back then when hearing aids and CIs were not even dreamed of. That caused the substandard education. Those who supported CIs in babies and kids are really paying homage to AGB because it is an extension of what AGB started. Nothiing really had changed at all.
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The Milan Conference was a disgrace...
But.. "nothing changed"?
HAs allowed deaf people to hear, and after a lot of protests from Deaf culture.. many use them.
CI allow deaf people to hear that cannot hear with a HA, and after a lot of protests from Deaf culture..
 
right lots of deaf people use HA or CI like some of us. Speaking of that kids learn how to speak and listen first on their weakness without learning ASL. At a much later time, they learn ASL on their strenghts and find it big disappointing that they wish they could learn ASL as well as speaking/listening at the same time. That's what they have been saying all along.

I suppose some of you know already what they have been saying all along about using both ASL and using voice/listen at the same time.
 
Frisky Feline said:
right lots of deaf people use HA or CI like some of us. Speaking of that kids learn how to speak and listen first on their weakness without learning ASL. At a much later time, they learn ASL on their strenghts and find it big disappointing that they wish they could learn ASL as well as speaking/listening at the same time. That's what they have been saying all along.

I suppose some of you know already what they have been saying all along about using both ASL and using voice/listen at the same time.
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I agree with you that when the child is deaf, learning to speak is very difficult.. as many deaf people here have explained from their own experiences. The first thing that a parent and child need to establish is communication. Sign (-language) is a beautiful language to use. Deaf or hearing..
For those children that are born deaf, sign-language, cued speech or any other visual language is definitely the way to go, but when the child can hear, speaking will follow. For the children implanted as early as they do nowadays, speech is a natural way of communication. If the parents let the child grow up with speech and sign, thats wonderful..

Research has shown that the first couple of years in a child's life are the most important for establishing speech.. When parents have made the decision to let the child hear, this period is when you want the child to be exposed as much as possible to speech... Hence... ASL is often put on the shelf until later...
So, when you hear that a parent does not know ASL. it does not mean he/she is rejecting it, or think it's a crutch etc. It's because the parents has put the focus elsewhere...

How many adults here have learned to speak fluently later in life... and how many have learned to sign fluently later in life?
I think the latter are in the vast majority..

Have to start a thread (poll) to look into this....
 
Jiro said:
hmmm... let's see.... is there anything I could learn from a hearing person? Considering the fact that I've learned to adapt in hearing world for many years, no I'm afraid not.

perhaps you could enlighten me?
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For someone who claims that he can learn nothing from any hearing person -- an audist statement if ever there was one -- you sure ask a lot of questions of hearing people.

I learn valuable things on this board from people every day regardless of their hearing status.
 
Jiro said:
cool that's fine.

so do you have any more question for us deaf people since we have experience and some of us have CI/HA?
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:laugh2: well, one thing I've learned is that there is no one lockstep deaf or Deaf perspective, and I've found how valuable it is to take into consideration the fact that just because one person may be louder -- or average 27 posts a day -- he or she can't and doesn't speak for all d/Deaf, or even all ADers. And often doesn't reflect the true perspectives of the majority of ADers.

That goes both ways: yes, of course the vast majority of d/Deaf are oral, recommend an oral or mainstream education, and are very much pro-HAs/CIs. But we took our daughter's very specific needs and abilities and who she is into consideration and went against the majority deaf perspective, which is one of the reasons why I participate on this minority-view forum, where I find some commonality and some ( though not much, sadly) experiences that align with my family's approach.

Questions? Yes, I do wish there were more families or young people represented here who are at bi-bi schools, who are fully utilizing spoken and signed languages. I'd have questions for them, about their outcomes, because unfortunately, despite our success with the approach, current studies don't bear out our findings, yet I think the future will prove otherwise and I'd like to find a cohort of those who have taken or are taking a similar approach.

I've polled AD, and I've asked for those who have had good experiences at bi-bi schools, but seems that despite 40 plus years of such education available, only one person, and not a regular, has responded to my questions.
 
GrendelQ said:
........
That goes both ways: yes, of course the vast majority of d/Deaf are oral, recommend an oral or mainstream education, and are very much pro-HAs/CIs.
DeafCaroline said:
Really? This is news to me.
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To me as well...:lol: and then I thought... She probably made a little error...

I corrected the sentence and it became...
That goes both ways: yes, of course the vast majority of hearing people are oral, recommend an oral or mainstream education, and are very much pro-HAs/CIs.

What do you think?:lol:
 
Cloggy said:
To me as well...:lol: and then I thought... She probably made a little error...

I corrected the sentence and it became...
That goes both ways: yes, of course the vast majority of hearing people are oral, recommend an oral or mainstream education, and are very much pro-HAs/CIs.

What do you think?:lol:
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I'd rather wait and see if indeed she was in error when she wrote that...maybe it was a Freudian slip.
 
I think this has come up on the boards before, which is what I'm going by, that the majority of those with hearing loss are oral and promote either oral or mainstreaming educational approaches. Several people have refined that a bit to exclude mild or moderate folks, and yet the majority of these still hold those views.

Do you think that seems off, that if we were to poll the majority of deaf ( people who identify as hoh, deaf, Deaf, but excluding those who are not severe or profound ) we'd find that the worldwide view is the same as you find as the majority view of the 40 or so frequent posters on AD?
 
GrendelQ said:
I think this has come up on the boards before, which is what I'm going by, that the majority of those with hearing loss are oral and promote either oral or mainstreaming educational approaches. Several people have refined that a bit to exclude mild or moderate folks, and yet the majority of these still hold those views.

Do you think that seems off, that if we were to poll the majority of deaf ( people who identify as hoh, deaf, Deaf, but excluding those who are not severe or profound ) we'd find that the worldwide view is the same as you find as the majority view of the 40 or so frequent posters on AD?
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I wouldn't know. It's just news to me that deaf people endorse oral or mainstreaming considering most of them hated it. How did you come to this conclusion?

Poll away.
 
Beach girl said:
You've got an example before you of a loving parent who is doing what he thinks is right for his daughter. She seems to be doing just fine and thriving in that environment. She's smart, resilient, and knows how to get what she needs.

And you're determined to find a problem in that somewhere. Because it's not what you would do for your hypothetical children.

Why not learn from those who have gone through different experiences than you have? You still will do what you want, obviously, when and if the time comes, but maybe knowing how other parents have dealt with a situation might ring a bell for you at some point in the future.
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Do you know parents who try to do the opposite of what the think right? :hmm:
 
DeafCaroline said:
I wouldn't know. It's just news to me that deaf people endorse oral or mainstreaming considering most of them hated it. How did you come to this conclusion?

Poll away.
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AlleyCat said:
Me too. Reminds me of an ostrich.
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Me too. It's all new to me.
But, I am kind of surprised that both of you, (corrrrrect me pleaseee) that you both grew up an oral and may have meet other oral people.

for me, i grew up with asl users all my life and met so many people who are ASLers and dont speak fluently. I started meeting oral people when i was 16 and later. However i did meet oral deaf kids when i was 1, 2 ,3 year olds but don't hang out with them.
 
Frisky Feline said:
Me too. It's all new to me.
But, I am kind of surprised that both of you, (corrrrrect me pleaseee) that you both grew up an oral and may have meet other orals.

for me, i grew up with asl users all my life and met so many people who are ASLers and dont speak fluently. I started meeting oral people when i was 16 and later.
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Hi FF, no, I learned ASL, English, and speech skills all at the same time. I am very glad to have learned both ASL and English right off the bat. I didn't know a lot of orals growing up, no.
 
A sincere question for you all:

Do you simply don't want to hear it when a parent talks about the success of their deaf child while they are brought up orally/AVT/Cued/whatever that is not ASL based and they stand by their choice? Would you promote a AD ban of this type of talk? Seems like most people here think those parents are:

1) Delusional and are only damaging their child.
2) Forcing their audist/oral/whatever beliefs on us.
3) Trolling.

Based on responses to those type of posts, seems like they provide no nutritional brain food whatsoever. Ban those type of posts from AD or not?
 
Daredevel7 said:
A sincere question for you all:

Do you simply don't want to hear it when a parent talks about the success of their deaf child while they are brought up orally/AVT/Cued/whatever that is not ASL based and they stand by their choice? Would you promote a AD ban of this type of talk? Seems like most people here think those parents are:

1) Delusional and are only damaging their child.
2) Forcing their audist/oral/whatever beliefs on us.
3) Trolling.

Based on responses to those type of posts, seems like they provide no nutritional brain food whatsoever. Ban those type of posts from AD or not?
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It's not that we don't want to hear the successes of AVT - we get concerned when ASL (or other sign languages) is intentionally left out of a deaf child's upbringing. It's what we've been saying the whole time.
 
Frisky Feline said:
Me too. It's all new to me.
But, I am kind of surprised that both of you, (corrrrrect me pleaseee) that you both grew up an oral and may have meet other oral people.

for me, i grew up with asl users all my life and met so many people who are ASLers and dont speak fluently. I started meeting oral people when i was 16 and later. However i did meet oral deaf kids when i was 1, 2 ,3 year olds but don't hang out with them.
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I am meeting them recently. About 3 weeks ago, was at a deaf get together and half of the people there went to an oral school and they all learned sign after graduation. At the deaf meet, everyone was signing and not talking except in some cases, with waiters. Also, the deaf school/org where I'm taking ASL, enrollment of oral students (from a different school for the deaf, oral only, no signing allowed) in their afterschool literacy program is on the rise. Quite telling, I think.
 
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