- Joined
- Mar 23, 2005
- Messages
- 44,482
- Reaction score
- 448
Please trust Shel - she's teacher and she knows about deaf children.
Cochlear program to give deaf children best start to life
- Thread starter Smithtr
- Start date
Please trust Shel - she's teacher and she knows about deaf children.
- Joined
- Mar 23, 2005
- Messages
- 44,482
- Reaction score
- 448
I want play basketball with you.
Not for me.....I acquired spoken language WITHOUT having to even attend a program/school for oral deaf kids. I'd caught up by kindergarten as a matter of fact....But what you don't understand is that HOH (both audilogically and functionally hoh) kids can still have severe difficulty with the actual SPEECH part of spoken language therapy. CI kids STILL deal with all those downsides as well.......
Not all aided kids were the type who only heard 40% with hearing aids, but still developed speech......HOH kids still have severe issues with the actual SPEECH part of speech therapy........and that includes CI kids! Oh, and I wouldn't say that CI kids are doing all that well..........the only difference is that the restrictions on who can/can't get them have been loosened...So kids who got some speech perception with aids, are getting implanted....So ofc they're doing better speech wise......but there's still kids who have significant Clarke transfer style speech delays... I remember seeing a page on facebook, from parents of kids at one of the Clarke speech schools (the oral preschools) They were complaining that their kid's therapists thought they weren't doing enough therapy...There are also a plethora of kids who still struggle orally...Yes, there aren't a lot of severe "Deaf Like Me/Mr Holland's Opus" style severe spoken language delays......but neither are there a lot of kids who have on par verbal IQs (verbal IQ measures mastery of spoken language) or who completely graduate from speech therapy.
TOD to be..........here's something you might want to bring up in your classes.......There's a myth or thinking that HOH kids have a drasticly different experience then do deafer kids. The current thinking is that "oh just implant the deafer kids and get them to good listening levels, and all the issues with being oral deaf will magically disappear.
I AM HOH (moderately severe loss) and respond very well with aiding. As a matter of fact, a few years ago, someone who is a TOD and works with dhh kids, told me I do not talk like a deaf kid. I thought she was talking about language-wise. (as my verbal IQ is high even for a hearing person) She said "no...no no....I work with dhh kids. You don't talk like they do." My experience growing up oral was IDENTICAL as to my friends who grew up oral with audilogically deaf losses.
There are still major major downsides to oral only....and it's still happening....even thou deafer kids might be functioning more along the lines of HOH kids of yesterday.
I AM HOH (moderately severe loss) and respond very well with aiding. As a matter of fact, a few years ago, someone who is a TOD and works with dhh kids, told me I do not talk like a deaf kid. I thought she was talking about language-wise. (as my verbal IQ is high even for a hearing person) She said "no...no no....I work with dhh kids. You don't talk like they do." My experience growing up oral was IDENTICAL as to my friends who grew up oral with audilogically deaf losses.
There are still major major downsides to oral only....and it's still happening....even thou deafer kids might be functioning more along the lines of HOH kids of yesterday.
Grummer
Active Member
- Joined
- Jun 30, 2006
- Messages
- 14,707
- Reaction score
- 18
you are naive
Amen.............Just b/c a kid is doing better speechwise, it doesn't mean that they're doing better universally......I have a very strong feeling that a lot of the successes are dealing with the exact same stuff we did, and will speak out just as vehemently....I was talking to a friend of mine. She has said that the most outspoken critics of oralism are those who were raised oral....and not raised oral with 40% of hearing.........
What is your definition of "many"? It looks like the long term studies are showing that over 85% of deaf kids are catching up and staying caught up.
Again, I have no idea where you are getting your information, and it is totally different from what I am getting in classes and through research, so can you please direct me to this information so I can be more fully informed? Everything I am seeing is showing that long term, kids are caught up and staying caught up.
- Joined
- Jun 5, 2006
- Messages
- 16,217
- Reaction score
- 18
I respect to cochlear implant. it is hard say.... it is difficult tell.
if people have have failure doesn't work successfully cochlear implant or successfully perfect. I hard tell say.
They speech and audiology assessments alots of opinion observe study expertiment perceptive person depend whether cochlear implant. I am really many study on observe person speech unsuccessfully or failure work hear work. can or doesn't work..
Ask if that's CI kids (a small minority) or HA kids....Also ask if its about communication methodologies or globally. Yes, kids are doing better orally...there's not a lot of kids with Deaf Like Me/Mr Holland's Opus style delays......but again most of the "longittudal" studies are short term longitudual..(like they track them to first or second grade, and then asswume that just b/c they didn't transfer to Clakre or another oral school they MUST be doing fablously.....Kids are still struggling with the same old HOH issues that HOH kids have for years....that has not changed. I wish Jill and the other old regulars were here......they could provide you with a lot of good info....Shel, do you have stuff that can and does support my position?
And again TOD to be, the problem is that the kids are still in resource rooms etc instead of Deaf ed. There ARE children who do very well.....but again....if kids are doing so well,then how come the kids I talk with,report identical issues and concerns (these are kids who do decently academicly) as to what I (moderately severe, high verbal IQ AND took two foriegn languages) experianced in school? Speech and language issues are only a small part of life sucess.....not to mention that many kids start struggling around fourth grade....there's a lot of clashing research findings.....just saying to be very skeptical........
Grummer
Active Member
- Joined
- Jun 30, 2006
- Messages
- 14,707
- Reaction score
- 18
you study it ?
why so hard to tell?
do you agree with Deafdyke? Shel90?
CI or not, its not alot of option, just 2. implant or not, very simple.
did it work for you? do you want other deafs to experience same as you?
good or bad experience for you, do you reccommend this? i dont think you will reccomend
CI only good for hearing who lost all hearing in a car smash for babies i don't think so
- Joined
- Sep 7, 2006
- Messages
- 45,078
- Reaction score
- 335
The fact remains that there are still many children who end up with language delays and deficits due to not having ASL from the get go because of the view behind CIs is just cruel. How can people allow that happen to children? Just sick.
Seems ironic that someone who is studying to be a TOD is not actually listening to the group of people you are attempting to work with.
This is similar to many other situations involving disenfranchised groups of people who tell truths and experiences but are ignored because "experts", authorities and "studies" <funded by who, for what purpose?> have a privileged interest in a certain outcome.
People in power want things that reflect them and want things in a certain way.
Anything that deviates from that is "behind", wrong, second-best or an "option" <"option" implies tokenism and limitations, not true freedom - you can do that OR this, BUT...>
Remaining insulated with studies and "experts" = easy way to keep your head buried in the sand.
Deaf people have already told you and told you. Grum and Shel are right.
This is similar to many other situations involving disenfranchised groups of people who tell truths and experiences but are ignored because "experts", authorities and "studies" <funded by who, for what purpose?> have a privileged interest in a certain outcome.
People in power want things that reflect them and want things in a certain way.
Anything that deviates from that is "behind", wrong, second-best or an "option" <"option" implies tokenism and limitations, not true freedom - you can do that OR this, BUT...>
Remaining insulated with studies and "experts" = easy way to keep your head buried in the sand.
Deaf people have already told you and told you. Grum and Shel are right.
- Joined
- Jun 5, 2006
- Messages
- 16,217
- Reaction score
- 18
my opinion. I agree Shel90 I strong personal feeling. CI become hearing.. I understand.
Unfortunately.
prof deaf sign language accept to language development to skill. But missing cause function. it is very risk for CI. it is very missing child.
I experience on previous cochlear implant failure doens't . it impossibles but
it is risk modify the volume find matching to testing to high hear. Doesn't work! Doesn't work. it is failure... It is very failure implant. many people give doesn't' know how learn up struggle on life own tried 10 year future unsuccessfully modify best to life. interesting!
It includes language as well as academics. It is longitudinal and is irrespective of language modality.
Except that I am not working with Deaf adults. I am not working with people who were identified 20+ years ago, raised without the ability to understand spoken language through listening, and forced to lipread through school. That isn't even close to the people I am working with.
In a school setting involving kids, you will be dealing with parents. Do not disillusion yourself any more than you already are. The d/Deaf kids you will be working with will become d/Deaf adults. They may have d/Deaf parents whose culture you would be wise to learn about and respect.
95% of deaf children have hearing parents, so yes, I may eventually be working with a few Deaf parents, but the majority will have hearing parents. Especially if I work in early intervention/preschool (where most of the jobs are).