cochlear implants

[Liebling:-)))]

There is no need to get into a fight between hearing and deaf worlds.

Yes, that´s right.

I accept hearing world but why can´t hearing people accept deaf world then?

I living both worlds because my both children are hearing... I work with hearing co-workers... I accept to learn about them... Why can´t they accept to learn about ours then?

I am lucky to have few co-workers who accept what I am.

 

[Cheri]

But then, I am hearing, so my view on Deaf society is through a very blurred window, but as a parent I cannot imagine that you would not want your child to hear. .

Why would I want my child under a knife and get a CI, When all I can do is accept my child for what she/he. Why would I want a better child than what was given to me since birth? That means I don't accept my child the way he/she was since birth. It's all about accepting and all about giving your child the best education out there. Remember an implant does not 'cure' deafness. What's the point of even spending so much money on an implant that does not cure the deafness? I'll just accept my child for who he/she is as a person, even if it means my child is deaf.

 

[rockdrummer]

Yes, that´s right.

I accept hearing world but why can´t hearing people accept deaf world then?

I living both worlds because my both children are hearing... I work with hearing co-workers... I accept to learn about them... Why can´t they accept to learn about ours then?

I am lucky to have few co-workers who accept what I am.

Man... I see way to many generalizations here. Dont say hearing people can't accept the deaf world. I am hearing and I totally accept the deaf world as I understand it. Not only do I accept it, I am focused on learning about it and trying to assimilate myself to it. Instead say "why can't some hearing people accept the deaf world" When you generalize, you come across as someone that has a closed mind. I am sure that is not your intention Leibling and hopefully you understand my point. I see so much of this type of stereotyping in here by some folks in the deaf community. Perhaps it's a just matter of how we choose our words.

What I am learning is there are may facets to the deaf world. It's not as simple as just saying the deaf world. There appears (to me) to be different beliefs between those that are profoundly deaf all the way to those that can hear with some sort of device such as HA or CI and everything in between. And obviously there are differing experiences for the deaf depending on where they fall in this continum and what there beliefs are.

We chose to have our child implanted with a CI because we felt in our heart that this was the best thing for our childs development and that if successful, it would give him the best chances for achievement. The CI didn't work work for him. But you now what, I don't have any regrets.

In CI surgery as with any surgery, there are risks and in many cases there are complications. At the end of the day you have to weigh the risks against the rewards and base your decision accordingly. In my case, there was not enough information (10 years ago) to make a sensible decision so I followed my heart and my gut. I was wrong but again, I have no regrets. And you can't deny that for those that the CI works for, their ability to assimilate is much greater. Just ask anyone that has a CI that works for them.

I only hope that today there is enough information available to aid parents in there decision. I would be totally against a parent deciding to get their child implanted without first educating yourself on the pros and cons and how it may impact your child given their specific case. And don't just base it on what the doctor tells you. Do your homework. It's a complicated issue with many variables and you have to take the time to fully understand all aspects of the subject. It's not easy but you owe it to your child to do this. There is no silver bullet that works for everyone. Each case is different and requires careful consideration only after educating yourself of the the facts.. My heart goes out to those parents who are faced with this decision. I have been through it with unsuccessful results. Fortunatly there has not been any noticible negative impact on my child with his CI.. Don't take the decision lightly.

 

[Cousin Vinny]

I didn't get your example on the outperforming in speech... Care to explain?

I didn't say anything about speech. I only said that most likely, Deaf children of Deaf parents (DOD's) will outperform their peers in terms of language development.

What I really mean to illustrate is how Deaf children express themselves in their 'native' language. Let's stick to English for the time being, as I know you're in a foreign country (Norway?). DOD's will write/read better English generally than their Deaf peers at the same age level. Even those Deaf children who have had the CI implanted early, their language base generally falls short of the levels DOD's occupy in reading/writing English.

Why is that? DOD's acquire native fluency in ASL. Once having a good language base, they apply it in learning other languages such as English, when they do enter formal education, and they do so with ease. Granted, it's not foolproof; there's always a group of DOD's who do poorly with English, just as well as Deaf children doing well with English. There'll always be some CI Deaf children doing well with English and some poorly.

Heck, there were even studies (I can't confirm this, though) that purportedly show regular hearing children, when exposed to some sign language in the household, will do better in mastering the English language later in their infant years. DOD's get this ASL thing in spades from birth!

Now... Back to CI's and their implantation in infants. Yes, the technology has vastly improved and speech processors used today are superior to anything used 5, 10, 15 or 20 years ago. While it's too new, infants implanted with CI's, using state of the art technology, do absorb their native language as used in the household. As a result, CI Deaf children will acquire native fluency in spoken English, just like their DOD peers with ASL. They will have a solid language base, which they can use in their formal education to master reading and writing English, just like their DOD peers currently do.

This is what I'm really getting at; I strongly believe that the CI regimen for Deaf infants in hearing households should be tailored towards language development. A natural consequence of this is that if everything goes well, speech development usually progresses at a normal rate, and any impediments can be corrected in speech therapy later in an educational setting.

Once Deaf children, irregardless of their CI status, having Deaf parents or not, master their native language in its written form, they can do whatever they want and achieve their dreams. I've seen too many Deaf people with impaired English abilities and the costs exacted upon them for their shortcomings, to care otherwise about speech development.

 

[Cloggy]

Guten dag Liebling, Wie gehtz?

........ I beleive from 6 years old is not too late to have CI. I let my child to involve with hearing, HOH, CI and deaf children and it helps my child´s choice. My friend´s son got CI when he was 8 years old. He is 16 years old now and speak good.......

What other thing can (could) your son decide for himself? I believe 6 years is too young. My son, 9years, really wants play-station, a new bike, computer. Still, we decide upon this. So I would definetely decide yes/no for CI, not him.

I beleive CI is suitable for people who WILLING to learn to speak/how to hear... Some of CI users I know has no interesting to learn to speak and hear... It´s waste of money... That´s why I beleive it´s child´s own willing... It´s child´s feeling if he/she REALLY want to learn speak and hear then........QUOTE]I totally agree with you, and that's exactly why the parent should decide. Children can lose their interest in new thing very quickly when they have to work with it in order to make it work.

I accept my deafness at long time ago. I thank my parents to positive me about my deafness.

This argument I find interesting because it is used often by deaf people.... It implies that when you would choose CI you would no longer accept your deafness. Is that the case?

I'm glad to hear that your son is doing so well.

 

[Passivist]

Passivist, things are totally different in the UK then in the US. The US is a LOT more accepting of differing hearing levels (NOT totally accepting.....but then again, you'll always have extremists)
I know b/c one of my friends lives in the UK. My comment may not have been true in the UK, but it is true in the US. I mean in the US we have folks who are Deaf, who have perfect hearing, but who use sign b/c of things like tracheostomies and apraxia.....I even know of a kid with UNILATERAL LOSS who is attending a school for the Deaf!
Things are slowly but surely changing.......check back in ten or twenty years.

I think America is behind the UK in some respects. I'm none to convinced as yet this 'harmony' exists in America, some of the oral-Audist stuff seems very entrenched already. Of course non-cultural deaf and parents have pulled out of deaf signing schools in the USA too, which hardlt serves as a 'sign' (No pun intended), of unity, more a deep division.

I hate the 'tweenies' idea, it just reinforced we are neither A nor B, I think in the UK there are stirrings of this sector wanting a complete line drawn between both so they can pursue their own aspirations, support and need requirements, it has led in some sites at the UK area of direct conflict and heated exchange with both Cultural deaf and Hearing areas getting the brunt of the frustration. 10 20 yrs will see a THIRD sector emerged as a viable contender, with no allegiance to others. Potentially there are 8 MILLION of these in the UK, who are neither 'cultural', nor hearing. I find it exciting personally they are finding a voice. There has been a lot of neglect of these people for too long, and neither mainstream or the Deaf Community has much to shout about in terms of help either. What goes around comes around.... Pessimistically I see further divisions, since 'Sector 3', is in direct opposition with the deaf community on aspects of education, and communications..

 

[Cloggy]

I am one of the people that don't agree with giving cochlear implants on children, without their consent, because they are the ones that are living it. Plus you know wearing cochlear implants you can't be involved in certain sports, and children fall and hit their heads because they are children, What happens when they do fall and hurt their heads? That's something to think about too. :Ohno:

Which sports can't you play....

And the possibility that a child might fall... how about the dangers in traffic when the child is deaf?

 

[Cheri]

Which sports can't you play....

Football, boxing, swimming, etc.

And the possibility that a child might fall... how about the dangers in traffic when the child is deaf?

Traffic? You meant by walking across the street? They have eyes to look both way before acrossing the street, beside I never allowing my child go across the street alone, they held my hands while we walk across the street.

 

[Cloggy]

Yes, many deaf children born to hearing parents to choose to have CI here in Germany... Why? Because they are being influence by public health department for cover 100% cost for CI surgery, batteries, therapies etc, not HA. That´s why the parents grab the chance for CI surgery. QUOTE]
CI and HA's are for different degrees of hearing loss. When you can hear with HA, Norway will not provide CI, like all over the world I'm sure. The criteria might go down in time, but first HA's are tried before CI is considered.

Sad to hear that people are forced to show only one side of the CI discussion. In a way this is not a problem as long as the information is correct. That is my main concern.

 

[Cloggy]

Why would I want my child under a knife and get a CI, When all I can do is accept my child for what she/he. Why would I want a better child than what was given to me since birth? That means I don't accept my child the way he/she was since birth. It's all about accepting and all about giving your child the best education out there. Remember an implant does not 'cure' deafness. What's the point of even spending so much money on an implant that does not cure the deafness? I'll just accept my child for who he/she is as a person, even if it means my child is deaf.

My daughter was born deaf. HA's didn't make a difference. She learned to sign and also got CI.
Now she recognises my voice on the telephone, hears children in other rooms and can identify them. She asks questions with intonation going up. She can whisper to us and understands us whispering to her. Wants to be sang to before going to sleep, asks for the CI when she wakes up, babbles away about her adventures at the kindergarden. (We can't understand her, just like we couldn't undertand my hearing daughter when she was 2 years old)

So, my question now is... is deafness cured ?????

If people aske me about the "things" on her head, I tell them that she was born deaf and that now she can hear....

 

[highlands]

CI and HA's are for different degrees of hearing loss. When you can hear with HA, Norway will not provide CI, like all over the world I'm sure.

Same here

I can hear with a HA so I don't need CI and the insurance doesn't pay for it in my case.
If I cannot use a HA then I would want CI and the insurance would pay for it.

 

[Cloggy]

Football, boxing, swimming, etc.




Traffic? You meant by walking across the street? They have eyes to look both way before acrossing the street, beside I never allowing my child go across the street alone, they held my hands while we walk across the street.

Exactly, you protect your children..... so do I. I doubt if I would let her do karate. But there are plenty of other sports that can be done. Dancing, swimming, horseback riding, skydiving, cycling, bridge,

Come on, having a CI is not a handicap, just like deafness is not a handicap.

 

[Cheri]

If people aske me about the "things" on her head, I tell them that she was born deaf and that now she can hear....

Does people think that you are embarrassed that your daughter was born deaf? It sounds like to me you are. What about your daughter's consent even if she is the one living with it, why do you have to make that choice on getting a CI when it is not about you, it's about her. I'm just trying to understand, no offended.

 

[CutePommie]

I am one of the people that don't agree with giving cochlear implants on children, without their consent, because they are the ones that are living it. Plus you know wearing cochlear implants you can't be involved in certain sports, and children fall and hit their heads because they are children, What happens when they do fall and hurt their heads? That's something to think about too. :Ohno:

Yeah exactly that what i thought the same as you . that is why i am also to be against to giving the C.I for my son. And now he is happy to having this hearing aids he is wearing now . i prefer him to having the hearing aids than having this C.I .

 

[Angel]

how about the dangers in traffic when the child is deaf?

I didn't know we are to hear in order to know the dangerous in traffic?...

But then, I am hearing, so my view on Deaf society is through a very blurred window, but as a parent I cannot imagine that you would not want your child to hear. .

I thought you respect other parents for their OWN choice whether or not they choose to implant their children with CI, ..


Also there are some parents out there who are caution because of an increased threat of bacterial meningitis and rathers to wait to implant their children with CI and for that I can understand since there are serveral cases of children with bacterial meningitis after they're implanted...

 

[Angel]

Yeah exactly that what i thought the same as you . that is why i am also to be against to giving the C.I for my son. And now he is happy to having this hearing aids he is wearing now . i prefer him to having the hearing aids than having this C.I .

That's great hon, no one should tell what choices you should make as a parents, if you feel that CI isn't benefit for your own child, then I respect that....

 

[sr171soars]

Football, boxing, swimming, etc.
...

I can understand football and boxing...I won't let my normal hearing son do either one.

Er...swimming is no deterence with a CI. Just take it off (the external part - similar to a HA) and go swim! The internal part is totally protected. I got my CI March of '05 and I swam pretty much everyday during last summer. No big deal.

Just clarifying that misunderstanding...

 

[deafdyke]

Cloggy, does she have a "deaf voice?" Does she still have significent speech and language delays? Does she still have social issues? (the gross majority of oral kids have pragmatic language issues, which is just a fancy way of saying that they have trouble applying the language they have to social sittuions)

I'm none to convinced as yet this 'harmony' exists in America, some of the oral-Audist stuff seems very entrenched already. Of course non-cultural deaf and parents have pulled out of deaf signing schools in the USA too, which hardlt serves as a 'sign' (No pun intended), of unity, more a deep division.

I hate the 'tweenies' idea, it just reinforced we are neither A nor B,

Yes, there are dumbass extremists, but then again there are signs of unity and acceptance. I know MANY hoh kids over here who are involved in Deaf Culture and who know sign. I know that over in the UK it's "if you have oral skills, you're not Deaf" We have that debate somewhat over here, but Deaf culture is more hoh friendly over here. Hey, there are even folks who don't have hearing losses, who utilize Sign as a primary language.
Yes, we hoh folks aren't hearing or deaf, but on the other hand, that really reinforces the stereotype that you need to be one or the other. Someone once said that he dated someone who when asked if she would rather be hearing or deaf, replied that she'd pick none of those....that she'd rather be hoh so she could have the best of BOTH worlds! We hoh folks are mostly encouraged to assimulate to the hearing world.....but except for a small minority of superstars, most of us don't feel entirely comfortable in the hearing world.......and the Hearing Health/SHHH style is very boring for us young kids. Yes, Hearing Health might be good for late deafened folks (most of whom aren't too interested in Sign and stuff) But trust me...... things are a lot better and more welcoming here in the US then in the UK!

 

[Superfroggy]

Someone asked if anyone out there that became deaf from Meningitis has a CI. I'm one of those people. I contracted Meningitis at age 7 and as a result became profoundly deaf in both ears. I had a little bit of residual hearing (pretty useless) in my right ear and wore a HA from ages 8-15. At the time (early 80's), the CI was a fairly new invention and doctors told my parents that a person who was deaf by meningitis would never qualify for or benefit from a CI, so I never even considered it.
I entered a residential school for the deaf at age 11 and learned ASL, and was pretty much totally immersed in Deaf Culture all the way through my life and even as a student at Gallaudet. In those days I admit I rode along on the anti-CI bandwagon simply because it was the norm in my culture. However in the back of my mind I never forgot what it was like to hear, and secretly wondered if there would ever be a day when I could get some degree of hearing back. God forbid I ever admit it to any of my Deaf friends, but I did begin to consider the CI and in 2002 at age 29 I started researching it. I had heard rumors that some meningitis-deaf like myself were now being considered CI candidates and so I decided to get tested. I had never even heard of ossification and was surprised when the CI audiologist told me that they would only consider me a candidate if the CT scan showed no visible ossification of my cochlea. They said it would probably be a 50-50 chance, but surprisingly my right ear had no visible ossification and I did eventually have the surgery.

I've only heard of one person so far who was implanted with a CI in spite of the fact that he had visible ossification from meningitis. My understanding is that ossification will limit the CI electrode's ability to transmit sound. I was surprised that his surgeon went ahead and did the surgery. This particular person posted his experience on a different website and after having his CI activated, expressed a lot of dissatisfaction and disappointment with his CI. I never saw any more posts from him and so I have no idea what his progress was further down the road. It would be interesting to know of other meningitis people with ossification who got CI's and whether or not they got any benefit from them. There seems to be more and more meningitis deaf out there that are now being considered CI candidates, but I guess it really depends on whether they do have ossification, and also seems like it varies a bit on which CI centers around the nation consider criteria for candidacy.

People ask me, do I consider myself a "success" with the CI? I'm wary of the term "success" because so many people define it differently. I know some people who define their CI's as a "success" if they are able to talk on the telephone or comprehend speech without having to look at a person, neither of which I am able to do yet. There's a possiblity that I never will be able to do these two things, and yet I do consider my CI a success in that it has brought me back to a level of hearing which I never dreamed I would be able to experience. My lipreading has improved tremendously, I can converse face to face easily with most hearing people- it seems my CI hearing helps fill in the blanks for the speech that I am unable to see on the lips. It doesn't sound like a lot but it makes a huge difference. Before, I usually avoided hearing people because lipreading was a huge strain even though I was considered to be a "good lipreader" (if there even is such a thing).

Could I one day be able to understand speech without "looking" or talk on the phone? Perhaps, if I was willing to submit to intensive therapy every day. In the beginning I did go to listening therapy but quit after a few weeks because quite frankly it was boring as hell. Not exactly "boo-bee-bah" type therapy (as you are so fond of saying, deafdyke ) but definitely tedious. And really, I don't place a huge amount of importance on being able to yak on the telephone or display the amazing skill of being able to understand what someone is yelling from the other room. I'm satisfied with just being able to recognize a whole world different sounds, enjoy music again, and being able to once again hear my family's voices in the way that I remembered from so long ago. It was simply a personal choice-- I've lived as a Deaf person for so long that it really wouldn't faze me a bit if my CI went on the blink tomorrow and I had to go back living without hearing again. It is enjoyable though, and I'm happy with my choice. I totally respect people's personal choice, whether they choose to remain naturally Deaf, or choose to get a CI, or wear HA's, or identify themselves as HOH, or whatever. Live and let live.

 

[Angel]

I totally respect people's personal choice, whether they choose to remain naturally Deaf, or choose to get a CI, or wear HA's, or identify themselves as HOH, or whatever. Live and let live.

I like you already LOL!!