Cochlear Implants for Healthy Deaf Babies and the Hippocratic Oath

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jillio said:
jackiesolorzano said:
No, it is not okay because you are not deaf and have not lived the deaf experience. Therefore, you cannot tell a deaf adult what is best for them. They are autonomous human beings capable of determining that for themselves. Deaf people have said that their oral educational experience was, to them, a waste of time. It is unbelieveably arrogant of you to take their personal experience and try to turn it into something about you. It has nothing to do with you. It is their experience and it is valid.
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Yes, I am very surprised at how quickly some hearing people discounted Deaf people's experiences and decided that the oral method is the best thing for their deaf child.
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jackiesolorzano said:
You have talked about respecting the deaf experience and that we oral parents do not show respect for what deaf people have gone through. If you want respect you must show respect first. I treat you as you treat me.
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Some of you people discounted the Deaf people's experiences and frustrations -- That is being disrespectful of the Deaf people in general. Going oral only for a deaf child is disrespectful (I am talking about people in general here). Dumbing down the deaf education -- That is very disrepectful of the Deaf people, too.
 
Buffalo said:
Some of you people discounted the Deaf people's experiences and frustrations -- That is being disrespectful of the Deaf people in general. Going oral only for a deaf child is disrespectful (I am talking about people in general here). Dumbing down the deaf education -- That is very disrepectful of the Deaf people, too.
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Perhaps because (allmost all) deaf Deaf people have lot's of experience with being deaf, they have no clue about hearing....
Just like I have no idea about being deaf Deaf.
 
Cloggy said:
Perhaps because (allmost all) deaf Deaf people have lot's of experience with being deaf, they have no clue about hearing....
Just like I have no idea about being deaf Deaf.
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Exactly. That is why I believe that there should be ASL in a deaf child from the time he/she was diagnosed with deafness. So why there are hearing people who discounted us and go for oral only for their child???
 
Buffalo said:
Exactly. That is why I believe that there should be ASL in a deaf child from the time he/she was diagnosed with deafness. So why there are hearing people who discounted us and go for oral only for their child???
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The experience of a deaf child growing up with sound, hearing, speech is totally different from the experience of deaf Deaf people.
 
Cloggy said:
The experience of a deaf child growing up with sound, hearing, speech is totally different from the experience of deaf Deaf people.
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Not so different as you might think. There are very common and consistent threads that runt hrough the experiences of the deaf, whether they are mild to moderate, or severe to profoud. This is especialy true when you look at their experiences with oral only environments. The deaf child who grows up with sound is still a deaf child.
 
Cloggy said:
The experience of a deaf child growing up with sound, hearing, speech is totally different from the experience of deaf Deaf people.
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Numerous research says the opposite. Why do you keep on making up stuff?
 
flip said:
Originally Posted by Cloggy
The experience of a deaf child growing up with sound, hearing, speech, is totally different from the experience of deaf Deaf people.
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Numerous research says the opposite. Why do you keep on making up stuff?
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NUmerous research says deaf children cannot hear? Strange..... I have read so many about deaf children can hear... and listen, etc....
But you disagree... ... so - a child with CI cannot hear.....

Please explain...
 
Buffalo said:
Going oral only for a deaf child is disrespectful (I am talking about people in general here).
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No, let's not be "general", let's be specific.

Specifically, tell me, who raised a profoundly deaf child who is oral and a graduate of mainstream schools, exactly how I am being "disrespectful" and exactly to whom I am being "disrespectful".

Since you are a noted authority who can speak on behalf of ALL deaf individuals or according to Flip, millions of deaf individuals, it should be so simple for you to provide specific examples of the "disrespect".

I await your learned and fact filled response.
 
I have posted a number of times about my positive oral environment and education.
 
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vallee said:
I have posted a number of times about my positive oral environment and education.
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And that has been duly noted. And, if you will also note, it is not your experience that is being discounted by the hearing posters that are promoting an oral only environment. However, there are far more deaf posters whohave described negative experiences, and it is those experiences that are invalidated through sarcasm and insult. The deaf posters who have cited negative experiences are in the majority, both on this board and in the general poulation, as well. Even those who see some positives in their experience still will cite numerous negatives, as well. Its great that your experience was so positive as a postligually deafened child with a progressive loss. However, it is not so for the prelingually deafened child.
 
jillio said:
And that has been duly noted. And, if you will also note, it is not your experience that is being discounted by the hearing posters that are promoting an oral only environment. However, there are far more deaf posters whohave described negative experiences, and it is those experiences that are invalidated through sarcasm and insult. The deaf posters who have cited negative experiences are in the majority, both on this board and in the general poulation, as well. Even those who see some positives in their experience still will cite numerous negatives, as well. Its great that your experience was so positive as a postligually deafened child with a progressive loss. However, it is not so for the prelingually deafened child.
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I don't fit your example, so yes you are disregarding my experience. thank you for invalidated my experiences and life. I don't care how you word it.
 
vallee said:
I don't fit your example, so yes you are disregarding my experience. thank you for invalidated my experiences and life. I don't care how you word it.
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I haven't invalidated your experience at all. I have simply said that it is not in the majority. It is valid for you, and it is valid for those who are postlingually deafened. When it comes to the prelingually deafened child, however, the issues are different.
Perhaps you should take note of where I said that it is great that your experience was so positive. As well, the OP was regarding healthy deaf babies.
 
I think we are all so into proving our points, that we fail to recognise that not every deaf person/child has the same experience. While the majority may have a different experience, that does not leave us to discount anyone who has a positive experience.I think it is time all of us learned a healthy dose of acceptance and patience and definitely tolerance. Some of us may be oral only, others may be bi bi, others may be ASL only. That to me is what makes us all unique. No one approach fits everyone 100%. Please take care to remember this.
 
jillio said:
I haven't invalidated your experience at all. I have simply said that it is not in the majority. It is valid for you, and it is valid for those who are postlingually deafened. When it comes to the prelingually deafened child, however, the issues are different.
Perhaps you should take note of where I said that it is great that your experience was so positive. As well, the OP was regarding healthy deaf babies.
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I agree...why take that risk for possible language delays by not providing all deaf children with all the tools from the get go? Too many of us were put in situations where we were put at a great risk for language delays, academic failures, or socio-emotional problems. It is not right for the sake of having good speech skills. Sorry, that's my opinion.
 
shel90 said:
I agree...why take that risk for possible language delays by not providing all deaf children with all the tools from the get go? Too many of us were put in situations where we were put at a great risk for language delays, academic failures, or socio-emotional problems. It is not right for the sake of having good speech skills. Sorry, that's my opinion.
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shel90 - You say "all the tools from the get go"; I agree with you. I also believe that the family should choose the tools that fit their unique family. Tools that will allow the family to provide an fluent accurate consistent model of their family language. They should also be provided the opportuntiy to engage with Native ASL language users who can provide their child and family with a fluent, concise, accurate etc. model.

The ASL Deaf community are the best models for the language of ASL and the childs' family can provide the best model for the familial language (learning and acquisition) via Cued Speech. Are you aware of any movement within the Deaf ASL communities to reach out to families with the opportunity to learn ASL, if they so choose, providing such an opportunity as I have described via rehabilitiation centers, health units, early intervention contacts etc?

Please refrain from placing CS in with strict oral language learning, as it does not fit in this model. Nor does,it even have to be oral, as in spoken, for the deaf or hoh child, or for the family member.
 
loml said:
shel90 - You say "all the tools from the get go"; I agree with you. I also believe that the family should choose the tools that fit their unique family. Tools that will allow the family to provide an fluent accurate consistent model of their family language. They should also be provided the opportuntiy to engage with Native ASL language users who can provide their child and family with a fluent, concise, accurate etc. model.

The ASL Deaf community are the best models for the language of ASL and the childs' family can provide the best model for the familial language (learning and acquisition) via Cued Speech. Are you aware of any movement within the Deaf ASL communities to reach out to families with the opportunity to learn ASL, if they so choose, providing such an opportunity as I have described via rehabilitiation centers, health units, early intervention contacts etc?

Please refrain from placing CS in with strict oral language learning, as it does not fit in this model. Nor does,it even have to be oral, as in spoken, for the deaf or hoh child, or for the family member.
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You still fail to receognize that CS still results in a monolingual approach.
 
loml said:
shel90 - You say "all the tools from the get go"; I agree with you. I also believe that the family should choose the tools that fit their unique family. Tools that will allow the family to provide an fluent accurate consistent model of their family language. They should also be provided the opportuntiy to engage with Native ASL language users who can provide their child and family with a fluent, concise, accurate etc. model.

The ASL Deaf community are the best models for the language of ASL and the childs' family can provide the best model for the familial language (learning and acquisition) via Cued Speech. Are you aware of any movement within the Deaf ASL communities to reach out to families with the opportunity to learn ASL, if they so choose, providing such an opportunity as I have described via rehabilitiation centers, health units, early intervention contacts etc?

Please refrain from placing CS in with strict oral language learning, as it does not fit in this model. Nor does,it even have to be oral, as in spoken, for the deaf or hoh child, or for the family member.
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Just talked with another teacher the other day about CS. She said that it works well with the use of ASL as a teaching tool. That I would use CS for, as a teaching tool.

Yes, we have an early intervention program with deaf and hearing staff who reach out to families of deaf children all over state. Just unfortunate that the doctors and audis are telling the parents that if they want to implant their children, they must go the oral-only route.
 
shel90 said:
Just talked with another teacher the other day about CS. She said that it works well with the use of ASL as a teaching tool. That I would use CS for, as a teaching tool.

Yes, we have an early intervention program with deaf and hearing staff who reach out to families of deaf children all over state. Just unfortunate that the doctors and audis are telling the parents that if they want to implant their children, they must go the oral-only route.
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shel90 - CS as a teaching tool....are you saying that families should not know be provided a full list of communications options right away?
 
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