Cochlear implant surgery is Safe!!

OK, I see your valid points - I do apologize. Most especially to Ref74.
 
mshel said:
Okay, I personally had enough of reading all of the comments about "surgery is... or surgery isn't..." You don't know because you don't work in surgery, but I do because I am an OR RN AND I AM DEAF. I will tell everyone that ALL surgery has risks and potential complications because, and this is important people, BECAUSE each one of us reacts to surgery, anesthesia, medication, etc.... differently! There have never been two patients of mine who reacted the exact way after the exact surgery. However, for all those who fear surgery...there are mandated rules , regulations, and protocol that are required by law and ethics that the circulators, scrub persons, anesthesia people and surgeons must do to minimize the risks of surgery....that is why many (not all, but many) surgeries ARE SAFE. It is because of the actions of the OR team that many surgeries are considered "simple", although I can speak firsthand having been involved in CI surgery as an RN, none are so "simple" -if that were true, there would be no need to have medications, crash carts, and other emergency items made available in case they were to occur. Okay? So all surgeries have risks but are not simple because everyone is different and reacts differently, but because of the skill, knowledge, and emergency items made available to the OR team( just in case).... this makes many surgeries succesful. Okay? Can we move onto a different subject now please? And one final note: It IS very rude and ignorant for any videos for deaf NOT to have CC!
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:gpost: :gpost: :gpost:

One question. Do you think that babies are too young to have CI and how old can young children wait to get a CI? The thing is that it is important to have hearing tests as time goes on. But most important thing is what I love for the babies and very young children would be to wait until they are like 12 or older to help parents decide if they want CI or not for surgeries. I don't like babies get CI very early. I am just curious of what is your opinion. :ty: :cool2:
 
absolutly agree that video by hearing or deaf should be cc :ty:
My personal belief as a nurse, mom, deaf person is that babies are too young to have CI surgery because of the very nature of the type of procedure. I honestly believe that it should be left up to the child, person, regardless of age who is to be the recipient. IF they want it then fine, but it should not be mandatory or forced upon them against their wishes by docs or parents or the government. And babies dont have a voice in the matter....yet.






rockdrummer said:
All excellet points mshel. I would also add that it is also bad for any videos made by deafs to not have CC.
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Everything in life is "forced" upon babies. We "force" our languages on them. We "force" them to eat what is good for them. We "force" them to gets shots. Many "force" their boys to be circumcised. We "force" them to go to school. We "force" them to follow rules. Many here advocated "forcing" a young deaf child to continue to wear hearing aids.

How can you "force" you child to do some of these things? Because it is for their own good in the future. So is the implant. Parents MUST take responsibilty and make decisions for their children, and that means doing what they believe is best for them in the long run.
 
faire_jour said:
Everything in life is "forced" upon babies. We "force" our languages on them. We "force" them to eat what is good for them. We "force" them to gets shots. Many "force" their boys to be circumcised. We "force" them to go to school. We "force" them to follow rules. Many here advocated "forcing" a young deaf child to continue to wear hearing aids.

How can you "force" you child to do some of these things? Because it is for their own good in the future. So is the implant. Parents MUST take responsibilty and make decisions for their children, and that means doing what they believe is best for them in the long run.
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QFT. Some people get it and some people don't. I would guess that the ones that don't get it don't have children and while there opinions should be considered, I don't place much value on them. I remember before I had children my thought process was completly different then it is now towards kids.
 
faire_jour said:
Everything in life is "forced" upon babies. We "force" our languages on them. We "force" them to eat what is good for them. We "force" them to gets shots. Many "force" their boys to be circumcised. We "force" them to go to school. We "force" them to follow rules. Many here advocated "forcing" a young deaf child to continue to wear hearing aids.

How can you "force" you child to do some of these things? Because it is for their own good in the future. So is the implant. Parents MUST take responsibilty and make decisions for their children, and that means doing what they believe is best for them in the long run.
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False analogy. At least if the person can grow up, they can reject what they grew up with, and start a new life.

Cochlear implants are permanent. If you want to make a proper analogy, please refer to eye surgeries. Many Deaf people would "force" their children to see again, just like hearing parents "force" their kids to hear again.
 
souggy said:
False analogy. At least if the person can grow up, they can reject what they grew up with, and start a new life.

Cochlear implants are permanent. If you want to make a proper analogy, please refer to eye surgeries. Many Deaf people would "force" their children to see again, just like hearing parents "force" their kids to hear again.
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That's your opinion. In my view the analogy is correct and a CI is not permanent. They can be removed. And if deaf people force their children to see (because I am sure they beleive it is in their childs best interest) then why would it be wrong for a parent to want their child to hear for the same reasons? Sounds like a double standard to me. My guess is that you don't have children.
 
it is true. My school forced me wear a bodyworn FM system. I hated it with a passion. My mom forced me to to the funeral with her. I hated that too. I hated going to the doctor, grocery store, shopping, etc. as well.

Some of my friends were forced to go to church. They hated that.

Some people do what they feel they gotta do. Some have to take their kids everywhere with them, and some think it is the best for their kids.
 
rockdrummer said:
That's your opinion. In my view the analogy is correct and a CI is not permanent. They can be removed. And if deaf people force their children to see (because I am sure they beleive it is in their childs best interest) then why would it be wrong for a parent to want their child to hear for the same reasons? Sounds like a double standard to me. My guess is that you don't have children.
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Double QFT!

In my opinion the analogies are very apt and if you are reduced to arguing over analogies then FJ has made her point. There is indeed a double standard regarding the cochlear implant decision. Quite frankly, I do not care whether a parent chooses a ci or not for their child because it has absolutely no impact upon the decision we made.

However, I appreciated the honesty expressed by weebeastie in another thread regarding her decision not to implant her child at this time. I only wish other parents would own up to, acknowledge and take responsibility for their decision not to implant their own child.
Rick
 
rockdrummer said:
That's your opinion. In my view the analogy is correct and a CI is not permanent. They can be removed. And if deaf people force their children to see (because I am sure they beleive it is in their childs best interest) then why would it be wrong for a parent to want their child to hear for the same reasons? Sounds like a double standard to me. My guess is that you don't have children.
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But the removal of a CI requires surgery doesnt it? That's the whole point.
 
rockdrummer said:
That's your opinion. In my view the analogy is correct and a CI is not permanent. They can be removed. And if deaf people force their children to see (because I am sure they beleive it is in their childs best interest) then why would it be wrong for a parent to want their child to hear for the same reasons? Sounds like a double standard to me. My guess is that you don't have children.
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Not double-standard. Just cultural differences.

In the Deaf world, being able to see is important. In the Blind world, being able to hear is important. Blind people get offended when sighted people restore vision to children, just like how Deaf people get offended when hearing people restore hearing to their children.

Ironically, a Blind person wouldn't hesitate to give their children a CI, just like a Deaf person wouldn't hesitate to give their kids eye surgeries. And both sides don't see the point of views of each others'.

So if you want to make an analogy in front of a culturally Deaf person, make a proper comparison. Comparing cochlear implant to so-called "forced" knowledge is not the right way since those can be ousted by the individuals.

I may not have children, but I do know how to make a proper argument.
 
souggy said:
Not double-standard. Just cultural differences....
I may not have children, but I do know how to make a proper argument.
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You can parse the words any way you like and argue semantics till you are blue in the face, but no matter what you call it, its just a plain ole double standard.

Glad you think you know how to make a proper argument except you keep missing the point that as parents we make many decisions for our children, some minor and some life altering and deferring your parental duties and obligations to make decisions on behalf of your child can be just as much a life altering decision.
 
Not semantics. Geez. What you are dealing with here is a conflict between two completely different worlds. When you recognize that deaf people are not the same as hearing people, no matter what technology they get or how well one hear, then maybe you can defend your point of view better.

No. You as a hearing parent, keep expecting the culturally Deaf to see things YOUR way. That does not work since they don't think like a hearing person. To a Deaf person, we don't see why kids should be implanted, but hearing people do.

Want to break it down to a Deaf person and justify your actions? Use an example from their world that others may find a problem with in their own culture. In the Deaf world, that would be the question of blindness.

Hearing people consider deafness as a disability and a hindrance in learning. Deaf people don't, but they consider blindness as a disability and a hindrance.

Want to argue with a Deaf person, think like a Deaf person. We understand where you are coming from, but only in a limited scope. I keep handing you the tool to strengthen your own argument, yet you refuse to accept it.
 
faire_jour said:
Everything in life is "forced" upon babies. We "force" our languages on them. We "force" them to eat what is good for them. We "force" them to gets shots. Many "force" their boys to be circumcised. We "force" them to go to school. We "force" them to follow rules. Many here advocated "forcing" a young deaf child to continue to wear hearing aids.

How can you "force" you child to do some of these things? Because it is for their own good in the future. So is the implant. Parents MUST take responsibilty and make decisions for their children, and that means doing what they believe is best for them in the long run.
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I was forced to get speech therapy but it was risk free and for my own good. Now that I look back, I am thankful for this. I did have a choice in what foods to eat and to this day, there's alot of foods I hate the taste of. Everyone is forced to get shots/vaccines as it's mandatory but the risk of shots is less than the disease anyway. I follow rules and laws as I wish to stay out of trouble. Wearing HAs is risk free but I have the choice not to wear them when I don't feel like it. I don't mind being forced on anything that doesn't involve surgery or losing something, such as residual hearing.

souggy said most hearing people would implant their child with CI, even if the hearing person is blind. Few deaf people would go for CI but would be happy to treat blindness. I guess it boils down to the fact that if you happen to have that disability yourself, you have adapted to it fine and don't think it's a big deal. I think blindness is a big deal but the blind(except those recently blinded) would disagree with me and say they are perfectly capable. The deaf likewise say that they are perfectly capable and don't need a CI or stem cell fix. Hearing people don't give the deaf enough credit for the things they are capable of!
 
souggy said:
False analogy. At least if the person can grow up, they can reject what they grew up with, and start a new life.

Cochlear implants are permanent. If you want to make a proper analogy, please refer to eye surgeries. Many Deaf people would "force" their children to see again, just like hearing parents "force" their kids to hear again.
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Let us agree that we ought not to put the children through either CI or eye surgeries and that the children could opt for surgery when they are older.
 
souggy said:
Not double-standard. Just cultural differences.

In the Deaf world, being able to see is important. In the Blind world, being able to hear is important. Blind people get offended when sighted people restore vision to children, just like how Deaf people get offended when hearing people restore hearing to their children.

Ironically, a Blind person wouldn't hesitate to give their children a CI, just like a Deaf person wouldn't hesitate to give their kids eye surgeries. And both sides don't see the point of views of each others'.

So if you want to make an analogy in front of a culturally Deaf person, make a proper comparison. Comparing cochlear implant to so-called "forced" knowledge is not the right way since those can be ousted by the individuals.

I may not have children, but I do know how to make a proper argument.
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Well said.
 
rick48 said:
You can parse the words any way you like and argue semantics till you are blue in the face, but no matter what you call it, its just a plain ole double standard.

Glad you think you know how to make a proper argument except you keep missing the point that as parents we make many decisions for our children, some minor and some life altering and deferring your parental duties and obligations to make decisions on behalf of your child can be just as much a life altering decision.
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I am with souggy on this (after reading the next post after this one). Suppose a Deaf parent see that his child is not signing and the parent think it is a defect. The Deaf parent decided to implant his child with a device right on the forehead so it could enable the child to understand ASL and signs as well. You would be down on that Deaf parent's throat for doing that, just like some of us who are protesting about CI in the babies and toddlers.

We don't see deaf children as defective. We know that deaf people can make living and raise family just like the hearing counterparts.
 
Buffalo said:
I am with souggy on this (after reading the next post after this one). Suppose a Deaf parent see that his child is not signing and the parent think it is a defect. The Deaf parent decided to implant his child with a device right on the forehead so it could enable the child to understand ASL and signs as well. You would be down on that Deaf parent's throat for doing that, just like some of us who are protesting about CI in the babies and toddlers.

We don't see deaf children as defective. We know that deaf people can make living and raise family just like the hearing counterparts.
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Sorry but this is where your argument and souggy's breaks down. I support the right of parents to make decisions on behalf of their children regardless of whether I agree with their decisions (and let us not go to extreme examples as that is not what I am referring to). It is not for me to determine whether I think it is in the best interests of their child but for them. I have no right to impose my values and judgments upon someone else's child and neither do you! Being deaf does not give you the right to invade mine or anyone else's relationship with their child or their parental right and obligation to act in the best interests of their child as they determine them to be.

Likewise, I do not have to "justify" my parental decisions regarding my child to the Deaf community just as the Deaf parents in your example above do not have to justify their decision regarding their child to the hearing community.

Finally, because some of us chose to raise our deaf children differently then you think we should does not mean that we view our deaf children as "defective". The fact that you have to sink to such a low level argument demonstrates your inability to understand the concept that all children are unique individuals and there is no one way to raise any child, even a deaf one.
Rick
 
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Buffalo said:
Let us agree that we ought not to put the children through either CI or eye surgeries and that the children could opt for surgery when they are older.
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Er...sorry. Rather we need to agree to disagree and move on. This subject has been argued for years and none the wiser all said and done.

Bottomline - Each parent is responsible for the well being of their children. All of us may not agree with what some parents have done. But none of us have the right to dictate to others what they will or will not do. I have enough on my hands just raising my two kids and I don't have the time or energy to raise everybody else's.
 
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