Cochlear implant mends lives

[jillio]

So you are saying that these parents have the right to use whatever language they want but how many times have you bash me and others because we use oral language with our children.
What I am saying is that yes parents can use whatever language they want but if they want their child to develop oral language with a CI there are some things that need to be in place if a child is going to develop oral language with a CI.

Not because you use it at home, because you insist on it in an educational environment under the false assumptionthat it creates more opportunity, higher literacy rates, and higher achievement scores.

 

[jillio]

They're BORN hearing Jillo - big difference, when comparing to somebody learning how to hear with a CI. CODA's can hear the television, hear the radio, listen to music - understand what other people are saying when they go to the store, etc.

The support at home is a necessity, especially for small children who aren't in school yet - how much socialization with english speaking people do you think a child if their parents only spoke another language at home? Chances are the parent's friends would all speak that language too.

And how much socialization does a CODA have that is being raised by deaf parents. It's the same situation neecy.

 

[jillio]

I thought the CIs enabled deaf children to hear just as well?

So u are saying that children learning to hear with a CI needs language taught to them directly?

Evidently! So much for natural acquisition with CI.

 

[neecy]

I thought the CIs enabled deaf children to hear just as well?

So u are saying that children learning to hear with a CI needs language taught to them directly?

When I finished making my post, I said to msyelf "I wonder how long till somebody starts commenting that CI's are supposed to make children hear just like normal people" - I see I can judge the posters here all too well.

Language acquisition doesn't happen on its own. Think of your own children - if you never spoke to them, never interacted with them, never taught them new words etc they wouldn't just automatically start speaking on their own would they? I have a niece and nephew (ages 1 1/2 and 3) and I am always talking to them and teaching them new words. You don't just implant a child and expect it to be a magic wand that automatically solves everything - haven't you read the posts of other parents of implanted children here and how they have detailed the WORK they have put into helping their implanted children? *sigh*

What I AM saying, is that if you implant a child and expect them to LEARN English - they better be in an environment where English is supported. An implanted child born into a spanish-speaking family will learn to speak spanish - the parents/siblings/friends will interact with the child and teach them new words, and they'll pick up the language that way. Then when the child is old enough for school, they'll be treating English like a second language. In order for them to learn English fluently they need to be in an environment where it is used regularly, every day. Now if the family uses BOTH languages equally I can see no problem with that. For example, I believe Cloggy's family speaks 4 languages, and Lotte is learning two at the same time - but that's with family interaction and involement, teaching her new words and showing her how proper sentence structure is etc. If Cloggy and his family only spoke Norweigan, its very doubtful that Lotte would just automatically pick up English because some people she happened to hear while out shopping or whatever spoke that language. See what I'm saying?

 

[neecy]

Evidently! So much for natural acquisition with CI.

Even hearing children don't just automatically acquire language without interaction with other people, Jillio. I mean come ON, you're arguing just for the sake of trying to continue this debate, not because you're making any concrete points. Do you HONESTLY think that a child, hearing or hearing-assisted with a CI would just absorb a language like a sponge and learn all its nuances without being able to interact with other people who speak that language as well? There are many cases of hearing children who were completely neglected and never spoken to by their parents or caretakers not learning a language.

A CI implanted child would learn the language of the environment they are placed in, provided the people in that invironment interact with them and teach them new words. If they live in a country where English is the dominant language of the populace, and schooling/commerce is conducted in English - then it stands to reason that they should do everything possible to ensure that English is the primary language of the child (except in a dual-language household as I mentioned in the post above.)

 

[jackiesolorzano]

And how much socialization does a CODA have that is being raised by deaf parents. It's the same situation neecy.

No JIllo it is not same and by you saying it is shows us how close minded you really are.

 

[shel90]

Even hearing children don't just automatically acquire language without interaction with other people, Jillio. I mean come ON, you're arguing just for the sake of trying to continue this debate, not because you're making any concrete points. Do you HONESTLY think that a child, hearing or hearing-assisted with a CI would just absorb a language like a sponge and learn all its nuances without being able to interact with other people who speak that language as well? There are many cases of hearing children who were completely neglected and never spoken to by their parents or caretakers not learning a language.

A CI implanted child would learn the language of the environment they are placed in, provided the people in that invironment interact with them and teach them new words. If they live in a country where English is the dominant language of the populace, and schooling/commerce is conducted in English - then it stands to reason that they should do everything possible to ensure that English is the primary language of the child (except in a dual-language household as I mentioned in the post above.)

That was what Jillo was saying..that by being around the spoken English thru peers, thru the community and at school, they will acquire it if the CIs enable them to hear just as well..

natural acquisition of a language is the acquiring of a language through other people and that was what Jillo was saying.

Tell me..how were CODAs or Spanish children were able to acquire the English language if only ASL or Spanish was used at home? Through the community, peers and school. If the CI children from parents or families that speak Spanish only at the home, they can learn English from their peers, community and school too? Unless CIs dont really work as well as many of u claim? I got the impression from many of u that CIs can enable children to hear like hearing people so there should be no problem picking up English through other means besides the home, right?

Which is it?

 

[shel90]

When I finished making my post, I said to msyelf "I wonder how long till somebody starts commenting that CI's are supposed to make children hear just like normal people" - I see I can judge the posters here all too well.

Language acquisition doesn't happen on its own. Think of your own children - if you never spoke to them, never interacted with them, never taught them new words etc they wouldn't just automatically start speaking on their own would they? I have a niece and nephew (ages 1 1/2 and 3) and I am always talking to them and teaching them new words. You don't just implant a child and expect it to be a magic wand that automatically solves everything - haven't you read the posts of other parents of implanted children here and how they have detailed the WORK they have put into helping their implanted children? *sigh*

What I AM saying, is that if you implant a child and expect them to LEARN English - they better be in an environment where English is supported. An implanted child born into a spanish-speaking family will learn to speak spanish - the parents/siblings/friends will interact with the child and teach them new words, and they'll pick up the language that way. Then when the child is old enough for school, they'll be treating English like a second language. In order for them to learn English fluently they need to be in an environment where it is used regularly, every day. Now if the family uses BOTH languages equally I can see no problem with that. For example, I believe Cloggy's family speaks 4 languages, and Lotte is learning two at the same time - but that's with family interaction and involement, teaching her new words and showing her how proper sentence structure is etc. If Cloggy and his family only spoke Norweigan, its very doubtful that Lotte would just automatically pick up English because some people she happened to hear while out shopping or whatever spoke that language. See what I'm saying?

What's wrong with treating English as a 2nd language as long as they master it? English was my ex husband and his family's 2nd language and they are doing fine with it. Tell me what is wrong with that? My brother mastered English as a 2nd language due to his inability to develop oral skills and he is going to grad school using English. So, what's the big issue?

 

[shel90]

No JIllo it is not same and by you saying it is shows us how close minded you really are.

How is it different? If deaf children are mainstreamed with hearing peers, they are socializing with their hearing peers just like CODAs do...

 

[rockdrummer]

GOD help us all

 

[jillio]

Even hearing children don't just automatically acquire language without interaction with other people, Jillio. I mean come ON, you're arguing just for the sake of trying to continue this debate, not because you're making any concrete points. Do you HONESTLY think that a child, hearing or hearing-assisted with a CI would just absorb a language like a sponge and learn all its nuances without being able to interact with other people who speak that language as well? There are many cases of hearing children who were completely neglected and never spoken to by their parents or caretakers not learning a language.

A CI implanted child would learn the language of the environment they are placed in, provided the people in that invironment interact with them and teach them new words. If they live in a country where English is the dominant language of the populace, and schooling/commerce is conducted in English - then it stands to reason that they should do everything possible to ensure that English is the primary language of the child (except in a dual-language household as I mentioned in the post above.)

Yes, neecy, I do think that and so does a whole profession of cognitive and developmental psychologists. It has been proven eons ago that language acquisition happens naturallly and peripherally from exposure. The difference between a hearing child and a CI implanted child, is that the latter requires extensive AVT to learn language. Learning is quite a different process than acquisition.

And if a CI implanted child "learns" the language of the environment, then if they are in an English speaking educational environment, they will "learn" that language, and they will "acquire" the native language spoken at home, thus becoming bilingual.

 

[jillio]

No JIllo it is not same and by you saying it is shows us how close minded you really are.

Yes, jackie, it is. I am not closed minded, I am relying on education within the field to attempt to explain a concept to you you are obviously unable to grasp.

 

[jillio]

That was what Jillo was saying..that by being around the spoken English thru peers, thru the community and at school, they will acquire it if the CIs enable them to hear just as well..

natural acquisition of a language is the acquiring of a language through other people and that was what Jillo was saying.

Tell me..how were CODAs or Spanish children were able to acquire the English language if only ASL or Spanish was used at home? Through the community, peers and school. If the CI children from parents or families that speak Spanish only at the home, they can learn English from their peers, community and school too? Unless CIs dont really work as well as many of u claim? I got the impression from many of u that CIs can enable children to hear like hearing people so there should be no problem picking up English through other means besides the home, right?

Which is it?

BINGO!!

 

[shel90]

Yes, neecy, I do think that and so does a whole profession of cognitive and developmental psychologists. It has been proven eons ago that language acquisition happens naturallly and peripherally from exposure. The difference between a hearing child and a CI implanted child, is that the latter requires extensive AVT to learn language. Learning is quite a different process than acquisition.

And if a CI implanted child "learns" the language of the environment, then if they are in an English speaking educational environment, they will "learn" that language, and they will "acquire" the native language spoken at home, thus becoming bilingual.

I agree..it is the same thing for deaf children who were unable to master English in the spoken form so they acquired their first language through ASL and then learn English in its written form as a 2nd language.

I need for u CI supporters to tell me how is that different for an implanted children who come from homes where English is not spoken..either from deaf families or Spanish speaking families in that case. The point of my argument is that many of u made such a big fuss telling me and other off about that it is the parents' right to implant their children and that nobody else has a say in their decisions. Ok, I see and support that but then many of u turn around and say that it is ok to deny those rights to families who dont use English at home. I was like , "HUH?" Of course, I am confused..

 

[neecy]

Yes, neecy, I do think that and so does a whole profession of cognitive and developmental psychologists. It has been proven eons ago that language acquisition happens naturallly and peripherally from exposure. The difference between a hearing child and a CI implanted child, is that the latter requires extensive AVT to learn language. Learning is quite a different process than acquisition.

And if a CI implanted child "learns" the language of the environment, then if they are in an English speaking educational environment, they will "learn" that language, and they will "acquire" the native language spoken at home, thus becoming bilingual.

EXACTLY - you are stressing an english speaking EDUCATIONAL environment. Correct me if I'm wrong, but children who are a year old or even 2 years old aren't going to school yet. So how are they getting the educational feedback they need to acquire English if its not spoken at home? They won't be exposed to that EDUCATIONAL environment until they start school, which in some cases might not be until the first grade. That's one heckuva gap with no English exposure happening.

 

[jillio]

EXACTLY - you are stressing an english speaking EDUCATIONAL environment. Correct me if I'm wrong, but children who are a year old or even 2 years old aren't going to school yet. So how are they getting the educational feedback they need to acquire English if its not spoken at home? They won't be exposed to that EDUCATIONAL environment until they start school, which in some cases might not be until the first grade. That's one heckuva gap with no English exposure happening.

But they will be exposed to the home language. And exposure to whatever language is used in the home facillitates learning of English as a second language. As well, they will be exposed to English in a social environment. You can't provide educational feedback untilthe educational situaltion has occurred: hence the term feed BACK. Many many successful students inthe U.S. are from immigrant families and achieve English fluency in just this way. As well as CODAs and deaf of deaf. If yu will recall, the highest acieving group academically is the deaf of deaf group who have been exposed to sign as their first language, with only social and educational exposure to English.

 

[rick48]

I thought the CIs enabled deaf children to hear just as well?

So u are saying that children learning to hear with a CI needs language taught to them directly?

If you are working with ci children and have to ask that question, then that is frightening!

 

[rick48]

Even hearing children don't just automatically acquire language without interaction with other people, Jillio. I mean come ON, you're arguing just for the sake of trying to continue this debate, not because you're making any concrete points. Do you HONESTLY think that a child, hearing or hearing-assisted with a CI would just absorb a language like a sponge and learn all its nuances without being able to interact with other people who speak that language as well? There are many cases of hearing children who were completely neglected and never spoken to by their parents or caretakers not learning a language.

A CI implanted child would learn the language of the environment they are placed in, provided the people in that invironment interact with them and teach them new words. If they live in a country where English is the dominant language of the populace, and schooling/commerce is conducted in English - then it stands to reason that they should do everything possible to ensure that English is the primary language of the child (except in a dual-language household as I mentioned in the post above.)

Agree with you Neecy.

The interaction between parent and child, deaf or hearing, is a vital and important componnent for any child's language development.
Rick

 

[rick48]

Yes, neecy, I do think that and so does a whole profession of cognitive and developmental psychologists. It has been proven eons ago that language acquisition happens naturallly and peripherally from exposure. The difference between a hearing child and a CI implanted child, is that the latter requires extensive AVT to learn language. Learning is quite a different process than acquisition.

And if a CI implanted child "learns" the language of the environment, then if they are in an English speaking educational environment, they will "learn" that language, and they will "acquire" the native language spoken at home, thus becoming bilingual.

Exactly what is the difference between acquiring a language and learning a language?

 

[gnulinuxman]

Apparently Cloggy is STILL the CI salesperson.