Cochlear Implant is death sentence to your health!

Chase said:
I'm not referring to people with CIs, especially those successful implantees such as yourself. I'm talking about manufacturing companies, surgeons who implant, and audiologists paid to refer. I have been there, was done to. Yes, it is the same old crap.
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Exactly. When is the same old crap going to end?
 
jenni-m said:
Ok.

I got my friend to summarize the video for me.
All I can say is, I have had a number of surgeries. All surgeries have risk. All could have complications, or potentially kill you, even 'minor' ones.

I have a fair amount of titanium and screws in me. I don't see CI as much different, especially since even anesthesia is risky for me (I have to be closely monitored while under). Probably the only reason I even got CI is because of blindness.

So yes, it could probably kill a person, on some chance. If they feel the risk is not worth it, then they don't do it.
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:gpost:
 
TheIronQueen said:
I didn't even think about the possibility I could die when I had the surgery. I had a complication during my surgery that was due to scar tissue of my inner ear reconstruction surgery 15 and 12 years ago. My CAT scan and everything else was normal and we went through a long thought process with it. When my doctor got inside, there was a lot of scar tissue covering my cochlea. He cut away at it and in the process cut my ear canal.
The recovery with my skin graft for my ear canal took about a month... But the bottom line is I have an amazing doctor that if I ever decided to go bilateral, I'd go to. I say no to bilateral for now because I'm not ready... Not at ALL because of my doctor or because I'm afraid I'll die during the surgery or have any horrible complications.

A note to all anti CI-ers and skeptics: Stop it already with the posts about death/complications/unneccesary warnings.
You keep saying that Deaf people aren't stupid... So give those with CI's the benefit of doubt of actually understanding the risks of ANY surgery.
And this title? Absolutely ridiculous and fear inducing.
Get a new hobby instead of CI bashing.
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:gpost: :gpost: :gpost:

Any surgery has risk. It's up to the invidual to understand those risks and decide if it's worth it or not.
 
jillio said:
But cloggy, CI is the same as HA in that it is an assisitve devise; a prosthesis if you will. That is not to say that it functions the same, but that the intention of the devise is the same.

A depression is made in the skull, and a hole is drilled into the cochlea. Anytime bone is removed, drilling has taken place, unless it is accopmplished with a chisel and surgical hammer. To create a depression, bone must be removed.

It is an invasive surgery. Risks are inherent in any invasive procedure. General anesthesia is necessary. There are risks inherent in being anesthetized.

Many parents are in denial regarding their child's deafness. It is a sad fact of life.

No one has claimed that parents don't love their child. I think the turn of phrase you may be thinking of is a lack of acceptance of their child as a deaf individual different from themselves.

ENTs do push CI, as well as some audis. And, more often than not, they present CI as the only option without providing information regarding alternatives. We have another recent thread of exactly something of this nature occurring to a member. Her audi has pushed her to go for an evaluation, despite the individual's statement that she was not interested in CI. One only has to visit the websites of many CI centers to see the evidence of failure to provide complete information, and to protray the CI as the only option for living a full and complete life. The pathological perspective is very apparent in all the claims made.

If money is not an issue, why all the talk from the medical establishment regarding "cost effectiveness"? Surgeons are paid to do surgeries. The more surgeries they do, the more money they make. That is a fact that cannot be denied.

CI does not kill you. Complications from CI surgery have the potential to take a life.
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:gpost: But, I don't know that it's the money, Jillio. Reason I say this is because the money get dispersed to other places. The docter gets a cut, but so does the hospital, the insurance co, and so on. So, I might have to slightly disagree. However, I do believe wholeheartedly that people are pressured into getting CI as a means to "fix" them. On that, I wholeheartedly agree with you, and it makes me crazy!
 
AM WONDERING.......do you all know who successfully invented the ci??

its the australian doctor clarke, at the melbourne ear and eye insititue....hes the one that successfully implanted the ci on this boy ....now i dont know if hes still alive....but just thought you all like to know
 
Oceanbreeze said:
:gpost: But, I don't know that it's the money, Jillio. Reason I say this is because the money get dispersed to other places. The docter gets a cut, but so does the hospital, the insurance co, and so on. So, I might have to slightly disagree. However, I do believe wholeheartedly that people are pressured into getting CI as a means to "fix" them. On that, I wholeheartedly agree with you, and it makes me crazy!
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Oh, absolutely, the total cost is dispersed between OR fees, surgeon fees, anethesiology fees, etc. But I don't understand what you mean by "the insurance company" getting a cut. Do you mean through the premiums paid for health care insurance? They don't actually get a portion of the total fee charged for the surgery, but the fees are inflated to provide for the amount that the insurance company refuses to cover.

And I do agree that money is not the total incentive. Perhaps for the manufactureres, yes. But for the surgeons, no. However, it is a consideration. The biggest issue is the medicalized perspective of deafness that leads them to believe that pressuring patients into sugical intervention in order to repair or fix that which they consider to be pathological.
 
Cloggy said:
I'm sure there are bad experiences with doctors... and friends and other people....
But I'm thinking in "information" like "It's the same as a HA", "Drilling into the skull/brain", "Major surgery", "High risks", "Parents in denial", "Parents not loving their child", "Doctors are always pushing for CI", "They just want to get the money", "CI will kill you" etc...
You know..., the general anti-CI nonsense generated by people that that don't have CI and really do not have a clue, or people that they would just try CI and thought they would be able to hear, without doing any work themselves....
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Parents in denial? Maybe not u but definitely many and many others are definitely in denial. Just because u havent experienced it doesnt mean it is something the Deaf community made up. Heck, many of us have parents who are still in denial about our deafness. Like Liebling said, pls respect our Deaf culture and our own personal experiences. u have yours, we have ours..thank u.
 
shel90 said:
Parents in denial? Maybe not u but definitely many and many others are definitely in denial. Just because u havent experienced it doesnt mean it is something the Deaf community made up. Heck, many of us have parents who are still in denial about our deafness. Like Liebling said, pls respect our Deaf culture and our own personal experiences. u have yours, we have ours..thank u.
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One of the features of being in denial is denying that you are in denial!:giggle:
 
jillio said:
Oh, absolutely, the total cost is dispersed between OR fees, surgeon fees, anethesiology fees, etc. But I don't understand what you mean by "the insurance company" getting a cut. Do you mean through the premiums paid for health care insurance? They don't actually get a portion of the total fee charged for the surgery, but the fees are inflated to provide for the amount that the insurance company refuses to cover.

And I do agree that money is not the total incentive. Perhaps for the manufactureres, yes. But for the surgeons, no. However, it is a consideration. The biggest issue is the medicalized perspective of deafness that leads them to believe that pressuring patients into sugical intervention in order to repair or fix that which they consider to be pathological.
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I was thinking of Medicaid. Almost nobody likes to deal with them, because Medicaid doesn't pay enough, so I can't really see money being the incentive to implant; except for the manufacturers as you said. I didn't think of that aspect of it.

On your second point, though, I agree completely. I've also experienced the same thing, albeit differently. There seems to always be a need for the "experts" to "fix" the person they see as "disadvantaged". My parents were pushed to brace me as a kid, because it was "better" for me. I had surgeries pushed on me as well (not medically needed surgeries) that would make life "better, easier". We fought it and I haven't had any surgery that I haven't actually needed. I am now an adult and can make these decisions on my own. Looking back, I thank my parents for refusing the surgeries that they did.

It infuriates me that parents are put in that position.
 
Oceanbreeze said:
I was thinking of Medicaid. Almost nobody likes to deal with them, because Medicaid doesn't pay enough, so I can't really see money being the incentive to implant; except for the manufacturers as you said. I didn't think of that aspect of it.

On your second point, though, I agree completely. I've also experienced the same thing, albeit differently. There seems to always be a need for the "experts" to "fix" the person they see as "disadvantaged". My parents were pushed to brace me as a kid, because it was "better" for me. I had surgeries pushed on me as well (not medically needed surgeries) that would make life "better, easier". We fought it and I haven't had any surgery that I haven't actually needed. I am now an adult and can make these decisions on my own. Looking back, I thank my parents for refusing the surgeries that they did.

It infuriates me that parents are put in that position.[/QUOTE]

Yep, me too. It's almost predatory in nature.
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Oceanbreeze said:
I was thinking of Medicaid. Almost nobody likes to deal with them, because Medicaid doesn't pay enough, so I can't really see money being the incentive to implant; except for the manufacturers as you said. I didn't think of that aspect of it.

On your second point, though, I agree completely. I've also experienced the same thing, albeit differently. There seems to always be a need for the "experts" to "fix" the person they see as "disadvantaged". My parents were pushed to brace me as a kid, because it was "better" for me. I had surgeries pushed on me as well (not medically needed surgeries) that would make life "better, easier". We fought it and I haven't had any surgery that I haven't actually needed. I am now an adult and can make these decisions on my own. Looking back, I thank my parents for refusing the surgeries that they did.

It infuriates me that parents are put in that position.
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I know of a couple of a deaf 8 year old who is being put in a position like that. Their daughter always wore hearing aids but she was always losing or breaking them. The parents are tired of paying money for replacements or repairs cuz their insurance wont cover the costs. However, the insurance or medicaid informed them that CIs are covered 100% but the parents dont want their daughter to get CIs but right now, the parents gave up and going with it cuz they cant afford to continue to pay for all the HA costs. The only reason they are going ahead with the CI surgery is not because their daughter doesnt benefit from HAs..it is cuz there is no cost to them out of pockets for the CI devices. Geez!
 
shel90 said:
I know of a couple of a deaf 8 year old who is being put in a position like that. Their daughter always wore hearing aids but she was always losing or breaking them. The parents are tired of paying money for replacements or repairs cuz their insurance wont cover the costs. However, the insurance or medicaid informed them that CIs are covered 100% but the parents dont want their daughter to get CIs but right now, the parents gave up and going with it cuz they cant afford to continue to pay for all the HA costs. The only reason they are going ahead with the CI surgery is not because their daughter doesnt benefit from HAs..it is cuz there is no cost to them out of pockets for the CI devices. Geez!
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OK. THERE's your money incentive! :gpost:

I know that in alot of states Medicaid doesn't pay for HA's ( I was actually shocked to learn that some DO!), but the CI surgery IS covered acrossed the board; especially in children.

I believe that HAs should be considered durable medical equipment and covered under insurance plans and Medicaid/Medicare. My wheelchairs are covered and have been since I've been in one. (Part time from about age 6, full time since age 11). Why the hell HAs aren't covered is beyond me?! They SHOULD be covered acrossed the board for both adults AND children!
 
Oceanbreeze said:
OK. THERE's your money incentive! :gpost:

I know that in alot of states Medicaid doesn't pay for HA's ( I was actually shocked to learn that some DO!), but the CI surgery IS covered acrossed the board; especially in children.

I believe that HAs should be considered durable medical equipment and covered under insurance plans and Medicaid/Medicare. My wheelchairs are covered and have been since I've been in one. (Part time from about age 6, full time since age 11). Why the hell HAs aren't covered is beyond me?! They SHOULD be covered acrossed the board for both adults AND children!
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t just leads right back to that "cost effectiveness" argument. And I agree...it is absolutely absurd that HAs are not covered.
 
If you guys don't think hospitals and especially surgeons don't make a whole lot of money, then your license to deny is revoked for being in over-the-top denial. You are disavowed, repudiated, disclaimed, contradicted, and disputed. Forsworn! Yeah, that one, too.
 
Chase said:
If you guys don't think hospitals and especially surgeons don't make a whole lot of money, then your license to deny is revoked for being in over-the-top denial. You are disavowed, repudiated, disclaimed, contradicted, and disputed. Forsworn! Yeah, that one, too.
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That's quite a list!:giggle:
 
Chase said:
If you guys don't think hospitals and especially surgeons don't make a whole lot of money, then your license to deny is revoked for being in over-the-top denial. You are disavowed, repudiated, disclaimed, contradicted, and disputed. Forsworn! Yeah, that one, too.
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That won't deny deniers. They might look at you funny...
and then deny you. Since to them you probably are already all of the above that you listed.

Hehe.
 
jenni-m said:
That won't deny deniers. They might look at you funny...
and then deny you. Since to them you probably are already all of the above that you listed.

Hehe.
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And they will deny that they have looked at you funny.
 
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