CI's for under 1 ???

deafskeptic said:
I agree. If I were to travel on my own in a foreign country, I'd bring pen and paper and go on self guided tours. I wouldn't speak in the language unless I have an idea how to say the words correctly.


I've been to UK, Scotland and Ireland with my family. I remember Yorkshire well because I couldn't understand the locals nor could locals understand us especially my little sister. I got by by pointing to things that I wanted in a restruant. I found out that Brits call English muffins crumpets over there.

I met a French deaf family in Scotland and we had a wonderful conversation. My father learned that ASL is similar to FSL (I forget the French words for french sign language. Sorry!). I told him had I been talking to a deaf Brit who uses BSL, I'd not understand him very well as ASL is totally different from BSL.
Click to expand...

Heh heh - even fellow Britons fiind it hard to understand people in Yorkshire. Scottish accents are even harder. My husband, who is hearing, used to put on the captions every time he watched a particular Scottish comedy show on TV.

Interesting that FSL and ASL are similar - I wonder what the history of that is? Auslan is supposed to be similar to BSL, due to the fact that British deaf convicts took it with them in the 19th century.

I had an ASL friend come to visit me from America and he was going to attend some talks over here. We did what we could - we arranged a friend who was fluent in Auslan to interpret for him at the talks but it was no good. He couldn't understand him because he said it was so different to BSL. So we had to use notetaking via laptop instead. I remember this friend (who visited me when I lived in the UK too) carried around a pen and paper too. He also had some oral skills as well, although some people found it hard to understand him. I understood him fine though.

He is a very confident, self believing person - he wouldn't let the practical difficulties of travelling get in his way.
 
R2D2 said:
Heh heh - even fellow Britons fiind it hard to understand people in Yorkshire. Scottish accents are even harder. My husband, who is hearing, used to put on the captions every time he watched a particular Scottish comedy show on TV.

Interesting that FSL and ASL are similar - I wonder what the history of that is? Auslan is supposed to be similar to BSL, due to the fact that British deaf convicts took it with them in the 19th century.

I had an ASL friend come to visit me from America and he was going to attend some talks over here. We did what we could - we arranged a friend who was fluent in Auslan to interpret for him at the talks but it was no good. He couldn't understand him because he said it was so different to BSL. So we had to use notetaking via laptop instead. I remember this friend (who visited me when I lived in the UK too) carried around a pen and paper too. He also had some oral skills as well, although some people found it hard to understand him. I understood him fine though.

He is a very confident, self believing person - he wouldn't let the practical difficulties of travelling get in his way.
Click to expand...

Ha ha, I hadn't known that about Yorkshire and other Brits. I had an easier time understanding the Scots than the Yorkshirers though they took some getting used to.

As for the origins of ASL, A deaf French man named Laurent Clerc learned sign in France and he moved to America to teach deaf children there.
 
Raykat said:
Correct me if I am wrong, but would a deaf signer with a professional degree be limited in any way in their interaction with work colleagues? Would everyone they come in contact with be signers or would they need the assistance of a terp?
Click to expand...

Matter of face, IBM made accodomations for their deaf computer engineers who dont have adequate oral skills. My two guy friends are really happy and doing so well at their jobs. I applaud IBM for meeting their needs. That's all it takes..just ask the deaf person what will make things easier for them on the job and do it.

I know of a guy with CIs who got accepted in flight school and wants to be a pilot but many of his hearing classmates are making a big fuss about it while the professors at the pilot school are making recommendations for accodomations to meet his needs while he is flying. A little change can come a long way for a lot of deaf people with the right attitudes and most important of all...faith in them.
 
Raykat said:
My most humble apologies on voicing what is obviously a touchy subject. Far be it from me to insult anyone, either intentionally or unintentionally. I shall take myself away before I cause more grief.
Click to expand...

Ok I accept your apology but pls give many deaf people the benefit of the doubt. So many people I know have overcomed so many hardships due to that kind of view and accomplished a lot. People need to stop looking at their lack of oral skills but rather look at their knowledge, intelligence, ability to cope, and so many more.

I know so many deaf people from 3rd world countries barely knowing how to read and write in their native language to come to the US to learn English and they accomplished that plus more. They didnt need oral skills..just desire, knowledge, and the motivation to learn.
 
jillio said:
But the auditory centers only transmit stimuli into sound. It is the langauge centers inthe brain that turnthat sound into something meaningful.. .this can be accomplished either auditorily or visually...it doesn't matter. The brain is able to recieve the sound stimuli at any time. It is the language centers that need stimulation within an optimal period. Auditory centers receive information only, they do not process it into meaningful input.
Click to expand...

Not so! I have a link here that points this out...A Critical Period for the Development of the Human Central Auditory Pathways

Here is another excerpt...

Critical periods also appear to exist in the auditory system. Language development, dependent on the auditory system, is known to have a critical period [for a review see (Skuse, 1993Go)]. Transient expression of acetylcholinesterase, seen in the rat visual and somatosensory cortices during their critical period, is also found in the auditory cortex with a similar time-course (Robertson, 1987Go; Robertson et al., 1991Go). The cholinergic system is known to be involved in learning effects in the auditory cortex (Juliano, 1998Go; Kilgard and Merzenich, 1998Go; Weinberger, 1998Go) and might play a role in the formation of thalamocortical connections. Lesion studies, in the cochlea as well as in the central nervous system, support the idea of a critical period in auditory development (Harrison et al., 1991Go) [for a review of central lesions see e.g. (Wakita and Watanabe, 1997Go)], as do the data from congenitally deaf individuals equipped with cochlear implants (Eddington et al., 1978Go; Busby et al., 1992Go; Fryauf-Bertschy et al., 1997Go). If congenitally deaf patients are implanted during childhood they can gain complete language competence. However, congenitally deaf patients implanted as adults have significantly poorer auditory performance and do not gain comparable language competence. The deficits in the auditory system responsible for their poor performance remain to be explored.

The link for the above is here...Congenital Auditory Deprivation Reduces Synaptic Activity within the Auditory Cortex in a Layer-specific Manner -- Kral et al. 10 (7): 714 -- Cerebral Cortex

As I have mentioned before there are two developmental issues going on here. One has to have the cognitive development aspect and the auditory development aspect. Without a properly developed auditory system, you can forget ever being able to hear or speak as well as the hearing do.
 
deafskeptic said:
As for the origins of ASL, A deaf French man named Laurent Clerc learned sign in France and he moved to America to teach deaf children there.
Click to expand...

Ohhhh! <lightbulb moment> I've seen that name around on AD but didn't understand what he had done. Isn't that funny? The main spoken language of America is English due to the British influence but with sign it's closer to FSL because of a French man's influence. So can ASL users and FSL users understand each other?

Also, I'm wonderig if ASL differ from BSL & Auslan in structure in a similar way that English differs from French and other languages in grammatical structure? I mean do they put the subject, verb and object in different places?
 
R2D2 said:
Ohhhh! <lightbulb moment> I've seen that name around on AD but didn't understand what he had done. Isn't that funny? The main spoken language of America is English due to the British influence but with sign it's closer to FSL because of a French man's influence. So can ASL users and FSL users understand each other?

Also, I'm wonderig if ASL differ from BSL & Auslan in structure in a similar way that English differs from French and other languages in grammatical structure? I mean do they put the subject, verb and object in different places?
Click to expand...


OH yes, ASLers and FSLers can understand each other much more easily than they would BSLers. However it's like being an American interacting with a Brit because they don't always use the same phrase or in this case sign. I remember it took me a while to understand that they weren't talking about angels but that they were asking me if I flew from the USA.

Yes, they do put object and subject and verbs in different places. For example, adjectives are often placed after nouns. ex: Water blue. Objects are usually placed first in ASL.

There is no agreement between past and present verbs so modifiers have to use used. The ASL signs late and wrong have a very different meaning than they do in English. If i say essay me write late finish. (ok I'm not that fluent in ASL. Correct me if Im wrong.) it means that i haven't finished writing an essay yet. If I say Wrong rain, it means it started pouring very suddenly. Took me a while to figure that one out.
 
R2D2 said:
Ohhhh! <lightbulb moment> I've seen that name around on AD but didn't understand what he had done. Isn't that funny? The main spoken language of America is English due to the British influence but with sign it's closer to FSL because of a French man's influence. So can ASL users and FSL users understand each other?
Click to expand...

When my ASL was weaker than it is now, I had the chance to see a French documentary about Deafness, and understood the FSL almost as well as I understood ASL at the time (which is to say, I got the gist of what was going on, and that was it). It's a fairly well known documentary - In the Land of the Deaf, and is subtitled in English.

Actually, what I find particularly ironic about the British and French influences on American history is that for all we think of the US as an ex-colony, the French had quite a large role in our war for independence (partly due to historical French-British animosities, granted, but we had a fairly tight relationship for a while - several of our Founding Fathers spent time in Paris as diplomats). So they played a huge role in the non-Deaf part of our history as well.
 
jillio said:
My son is doing just fine. And since you know nothing about him, nor anything obviously about me either, I suggest you get your facts straight. And, by the way, stick to the issues being discussed. To break into a discussion and start hurling personal insults around is a sign of true ignorance. If you can't engage in an intelligent discussion, it would perhaps be best to say nothing, because you are begigning to show your true character.
As for ignorance, as you obviously don't have any knowledge on which to base your comments, and the definition of ignorance is without knowledge, then you have chosed a word that more aptly describes yourself.
Click to expand...


I must be having a slow day.......after puzzling for several hours over your last comment about ignorance I finally realised you had misread my previous post, the word I chose was Arrogance, not ignorance. Very different meaning methinks.
 
shel90 said:
Matter of face, IBM made accodomations for their deaf computer engineers who dont have adequate oral skills. My two guy friends are really happy and doing so well at their jobs. I applaud IBM for meeting their needs. That's all it takes..just ask the deaf person what will make things easier for them on the job and do it.

I know of a guy with CIs who got accepted in flight school and wants to be a pilot but many of his hearing classmates are making a big fuss about it while the professors at the pilot school are making recommendations for accodomations to meet his needs while he is flying. A little change can come a long way for a lot of deaf people with the right attitudes and most important of all...faith in them.
Click to expand...

Whilst I also applaud the decency of IBM in making accomodations for their deaf workers, your post does not really answer the question of how a signing professional person gets on when out of their personal work environment. There must be many times they are faced with meeting non signers, or even those who are difficult to lipread (if they are lipreading abled) In this case do they need to take along a terp, hence limiting their independence? My meaning of independence the ability to function totally alone.
 
Well, you'd only need a terp for job training; understanding what is expected of you is essential on the job. There are various methods you can use to communicate with others. You'd also ask others to take over duties you can't do yourself like phone calls.

My ex-bf had no oral skills at all but he'd use body language and p&p. He even set up a tty line for those who were having computer problems. To the best of my knowledge, he has never worked in a company with a lot of deaf people.

For meetings, some can get by on a one to one basis but others do well in groups. Even if you're an oralist, you do need to have accodomations depending on your degree of loss. For some, an ampifier is all they need; others will require a bit more.
 
deafskeptic said:
Well, you'd only need a terp for job training; understanding what is expected of you is essential on the job. There are various methods you can use to communicate with others. You'd also ask others to take over duties you can't do yourself like phone calls.
Click to expand...

From my experiences back in my hearing aid days, I never found that hearing people were that happy to take phone calls on my behalf when they'd rather be working at their own jobs. I worked for a deaf organization for a few years in my 20s and the hearing people there were the most impatient, even though they had all had deaf awareness training. I think that because I spoke pretty clearly they thought I was faking not being able to use the telephone.

I found that large banks and companies are the best places for deaf people to work as they can afford to be more flexible and touchy feely. Plus in recent years e-mail has transformed communication. By working at big places it allowed me to develop a network, that I could tap into when one contract ended and I needed more work. People who had also moved on remembered me, knew what I was like and helped me get work at their new places.
 
Raykat said:
Whilst I also applaud the decency of IBM in making accomodations for their deaf workers, your post does not really answer the question of how a signing professional person gets on when out of their personal work environment. There must be many times they are faced with meeting non signers, or even those who are difficult to lipread (if they are lipreading abled) In this case do they need to take along a terp, hence limiting their independence? My meaning of independence the ability to function totally alone.
Click to expand...


Never heard of any of my non oral deaf friends, coworkers, or acquaintances needing a terp for their daily living needs. Many of them do just fine..many of them are homeowners, have families of their own, and are capable of doing their errands/appts alone. I also know so many deaf people without oral skills who have traveled all around the world alone or with groups of other deaf people who dont have oral skills either and they all have expressed how much fun they had. Not one of them complained about communication barriers...probably cuz they dont think twice about it since they have learned how to find ways to communicate with non signers. I dont know where u got that idea from. I remember u mentioned that u are not interested in getting to know deaf people who are signers and it makes me wonder why cuz maybe there could be some people who are signers that u may find friendships with. Pls dont categorize all of us in one group and one person. We all have different interests, hobbies, dreams and problems. We are just like anyone else except we use signing as our primary source of communication. Doesnt make us strange or aliens.

Anyone here hires a terp to tag along with u to help u communicate with people out of the work place?
 
Raykat said:
Whilst I also applaud the decency of IBM in making accomodations for their deaf workers, your post does not really answer the question of how a signing professional person gets on when out of their personal work environment. There must be many times they are faced with meeting non signers, or even those who are difficult to lipread (if they are lipreading abled) In this case do they need to take along a terp, hence limiting their independence? My meaning of independence the ability to function totally alone.
Click to expand...
seems to me that all one needs is a pencil, some paper and the ability to read and write.
 
rockdrummer said:
seems to me that all one needs is a pencil, some paper and the ability to read and write.
Click to expand...

Also I want to add that hiring a terp for day to day living can get pretty expensive! LOL! :giggle:

Honestly, nobody in the deaf community ever really expressed the need of having a terp with them outside of the workplace. In fact, many of them would probably say the opposite.
 
Boult said:
It's opposite... from looking at your old posts including the one you blew your top off.. *shrug* :D It's sad..
Click to expand...

I wasn't addressing you, boult. Decide to jump on the band wagon because you think you have a few posters now that will support you?
 
shel90 said:
Boult and Jillo..who cares who is bitter or not...this view needs that having oral skills means a better life needs to stop and people need to start having more respect for ASL and people who use it. .

The point is the oral-only education still limits deaf children even with CIs as shown in Jackie's posts about her daughter not understanding what everyone is saying during a classroom discussion ..yes we can get all the accodomations for them but in reality, their hearing counterparts will get full access to education and information while deaf children dont unless we change it but it seems like people are ok with deaf children not getting equal access to education so this problem will continue unless deafness is 100% cured.

What's the purpose of free and APPROPRIATE education? An educational setting in which a child gets partial information is not meeting APPROPRIATE education according to the law. However, too many people out there seem to accept deaf children not getting equal educational access as their hearing counterparts which is pretty sad!
Click to expand...

And you are absolutely right, shel.
 
R2D2 said:
Do you have any studlies please to back up your claims in a CI context? I'd like to see evidence of adults' brain plasticity being able to adapt to "sound stimuli at any time" after having very little or no sound input until adulthood.

I have personally observed very poor results with adapation to sound stimuli in teenagers and adults in such a situation.
Click to expand...


CI context or non-CI context.... We were discussing physiology of the brain, and the way it processes information. But....since you asked, Mark Marshark, et.al has done numerous studies on the cognitive psychological aspects of deafness, language processing, etc. in the deaf.
 
Back
Top