CI's for under 1 ???

Boult said:
*smh* This is not competition! get over it!
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No, its not a competetion. But that is a relevant question, because you are posting quotes that you are not qualified to interpret. You see acouple of buzz words, and think it supports your position. If you had any expertise int he field, you would see that you are defeating your own arguments.
 
Boult said:
It's opposite... from looking at your old posts including the one you blew your top off.. *shrug* :D It's sad..
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Boult and Jillo..who cares who is bitter or not...this view needs that having oral skills means a better life needs to stop and people need to start having more respect for ASL and people who use it. .

The point is the oral-only education still limits deaf children even with CIs as shown in Jackie's posts about her daughter not understanding what everyone is saying during a classroom discussion ..yes we can get all the accodomations for them but in reality, their hearing counterparts will get full access to education and information while deaf children dont unless we change it but it seems like people are ok with deaf children not getting equal access to education so this problem will continue unless deafness is 100% cured.

What's the purpose of free and APPROPRIATE education? An educational setting in which a child gets partial information is not meeting APPROPRIATE education according to the law. However, too many people out there seem to accept deaf children not getting equal educational access as their hearing counterparts which is pretty sad!
 
jillio said:
But the auditory centers only transmit stimuli into sound. It is the langauge centers inthe brain that turnthat sound into something meaningful.. .this can be accomplished either auditorily or visually...it doesn't matter. The brain is able to recieve the sound stimuli at any time. It is the language centers that need stimulation within an optimal period. Auditory centers receive information only, they do not process it into meaningful input.
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Do you have any studlies please to back up your claims in a CI context? I'd like to see evidence of adults' brain plasticity being able to adapt to "sound stimuli at any time" after having very little or no sound input until adulthood.

I have personally observed very poor results with adapation to sound stimuli in teenagers and adults in such a situation.
 
dreama said:
:gpost:

I think it's wrong to implant deaf babies or anyone else who is not capable of communicating wether they want the device or not. Child should be old enough to make their own minds up. Some people do well with Implants. Some people hate them. You should at least be given a choice as wether you get this device or not.
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This is the whole point of the discussion we are having. For many children who are eligible for a CI (i.e. not able to benefit from a hearing aid) waiting until they are old enough to make up their mind is too late. It's not really a choice because when they are older, they get very limited benefit from their CI due to the fact that the window for developing auditory stimuli in the brain slows down rapidly after the age of 5.

By not implanting a child, you are making a choice for that child in terms of what choices they will have as adults. It's not necessarily the end of the world or positive or negative - but let's call a spade a spade - it's a choice!

A recent study sponsored by the NDCS in the UK where deaf teenagers were interviewed regarding their parents' decisions to implant them as young children found that the majority were positive and understanding about the decisions that were made on their behalf when they were too young to do so.
There aren't many studies that address those issues and hopefully, more will come but it's a positive start.
 
shel90 said:
My brother who is deaf and has no oral skills spent 2 weeks alone in Hawaii and he is still alive. BTW, he didnt need a terp at all. He is smart enough to know how to overcome the communication barriers so can many other deaf people who dont have oral skills.

That kind of view is what is hurting many deaf people out there. Have some faith! :roll:
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Hawaii isn't exactly around the world since it's a state in the union.
 
R2D2 said:
This is the whole point of the discussion we are having. For many children who are eligible for a CI (i.e. not able to benefit from a hearing aid) waiting until they are old enough to make up their mind is too late. It's not really a choice because when they are older, they get very limited benefit from their CI due to the fact that the window for developing auditory stimuli in the brain slows down rapidly after the age of 5.

By not implanting a child, you are making a choice for that child in terms of what choices they will have as adults. It's not necessarily the end of the world or positive or negative - but let's call a spade a spade - it's a choice!

A recent study sponsored by the NDCS in the UK where deaf teenagers were interviewed regarding their parents' decisions to implant them as young children found that the majority were positive and understanding about the decisions that were made on their behalf when they were too young to do so.
There aren't many studies that address those issues and hopefully, more will come but it's a positive start.
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U got a good point..

Maybe this new generation of implanters is kinda like the generation of children who first got braces? Like when braces first came out, children who got them were picked on and ridiculed just like children who first got CIs by the deaf community. Now, I am seeing deaf children who dont have CIs are being exposed to and interacting with CI users so it is not a big deal to them. As a result, the CI users will grow up feeling more positive about their CIs?

Some deaf adults have expressed feeling about being pissed at their parents for implanting them while others are grateful. Depends on the individual and how they were raised to view their own CIs.
 
Boult said:
*smh* This is not competition! get over it!
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I explained to Jillio at one time recently how I really dont have that high of an opinion of all those 'educated' experts whom I've encounted. The phycologists I've encounted remind me of the one on the cave man commercials. LOL She was sorry I had had some bad encounters. Since I think I've seen her state that she has some type of degree in pyhcholgy I can see why her talking is reminding me so much about the personal encounters I 've had. :)

Many people that i've encounted in the schools seem to think that their college degrees can trump common sense. Well for some maybe, but I've become to cynical (sp?) after all my encounters with the college educated masses, starting when my duaghter was actually young and I really really thought they knew and cared.
 
shel90 said:
and your point is?
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In Hawaii he wasn't dealing with people who spoke a different language. He was dealing with people who if he wrote down his request would probably be able to understand what he was asking. In countries where english is not the first language the communcation could become much more difficult, just because they can understand and speak some english does not mean that they would be able to read english.
 
jag said:
I explained to Jillio at one time recently how I really dont have that high of an opinion of all those 'educated' experts whom I've encounted. The phycologists I've encounted remind me of the one on the cave man commercials. LOL She was sorry I had had some bad encounters. Since I think I've seen her state that she has some type of degree in pyhcholgy I can see why her talking is reminding me so much about the personal encounters I 've had. :)

Many people that i've encounted in the schools seem to think that their college degrees can trump common sense. Well for some maybe, but I've become to cynical (sp?) after all my encounters with the college educated masses, starting when my duaghter was actually young and I really really thought they knew and cared.
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I am sorry that u feel that way about us. If we didnt care, we wouldnt become teachers...who wants a job that pays low and gets so much criticism from people? Only the ones that care..at least the teachers that I work with do. None of the teachers I know are there for the money otherwise they would be working in the corporate field as CEOs.

If I didnt care anymore, I would give up on the deaf education system and let it be instead of fighting to improve it. If u and others dont like it then oh well.
 
jag said:
In Hawaii he wasn't dealing with people who spoke a different language. He was dealing with people who if he wrote down his request would probably be able to understand what he was asking. In countries where english is not the first language the communcation could become much more difficult, just because they can understand and speak some english does not mean that they would be able to read english.
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The solution is quite simple. Make it a point to learn a few phrases in the language they're speaking in and learn which gestures are offensive. I'd make sure that I learn the word deaf in their language so they'll know I don't hear normally.

You can also use home made signs to get your point across.
 
jag said:
In Hawaii he wasn't dealing with people who spoke a different language. He was dealing with people who if he wrote down his request would probably be able to understand what he was asking. In countries where english is not the first language the communcation could become much more difficult, just because they can understand and speak some english does not mean that they would be able to read english.
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Ok and what about my deaf friends who dont have oral skills who traveled (backpacked) across Europe just fine? Raykat is implying that deaf people must have oral skills to travel all over the world and I was saying that is BS and using my friends and my brother as examples of how they can travel just fine without needing terps. What she said really pissed me off big time cuz she is so wrong! Oh man...now it matters where they traveled? The point is deaf people whether they have oral skills or not can do ANYTHING they want if taught with a good attitude and faith from people around them.
 
jillio said:
My son is doing just fine. And since you know nothing about him, nor anything obviously about me either, I suggest you get your facts straight. And, by the way, stick to the issues being discussed. To break into a discussion and start hurling personal insults around is a sign of true ignorance. If you can't engage in an intelligent discussion, it would perhaps be best to say nothing, because you are begigning to show your true character.
As for ignorance, as you obviously don't have any knowledge on which to base your comments, and the definition of ignorance is without knowledge, then you have chosed a word that more aptly describes yourself.
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1) hurling insults........cant think of much worse than offering to bash someone who is being held down by someone else.
2) Breaking into a discussion......seems to me thats what this forum is all about, each having their say.
3) your whole above post is a perfect example of the way you lash out at thos who have a different view point.
 
Raykat said:
1) hurling insults........cant think of much worse than offering to bash someone who is being held down by someone else.
2) Breaking into a discussion......seems to me thats what this forum is all about, each having their say.
3) your whole above post is a perfect example of the way you lash out at thos who have a different view point.
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Your view as stated in your post about needing oral skills to travel or being indendepent was a personal insult to me because u are insulting my brother and my friends who dont have any oral skills whom I care so much about. So, dont try to come off as innocent!
 
shel90 said:
I am curious Raykat..have u ever interacted with deaf signers who have professional degrees?

I dont know where u got this view that oral deaf people live independent lives and non-oral deaf people dont.

I have met thousands and thousands of different deaf people since I got involved with the Deaf community 10 years ago..it doesnt matter who is oral or who is not to live a successful and independent life. It matters who they are inside and what their desires are...some are lazy and work low paying jobs (yes oral deaf included!) and some have professional degrees and working in careers (yes deaf signers included!). To make that kind of statement is ignorant and an insult to non-oral deaf signers!!! I do not appreciate it at all! :pissed:
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Correct me if I am wrong, but would a deaf signer with a professional degree be limited in any way in their interaction with work colleagues? Would everyone they come in contact with be signers or would they need the assistance of a terp?
 
deafskeptic said:
The solution is quite simple. Make it a point to learn a few phrases in the language they're speaking in and learn which gestures are offensive. I'd make sure that I learn the word deaf in their language so they'll know I don't hear normally.

You can also use home made signs to get your point across.
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Actually, I'm quite sure that most deaf signers are perfectly capable of going around the world and getting by with universally understood gestures and or a piece of paper and pen. I have a friend who doesn't speak and when he went to the Philippines with hearing friends the locals were lovely to him.

I think though that confidence might be the biggest barrier and this doesn't necessarily only affect signers. I don't think my friend would have gone on his own. It won't be a problem to those who are naturally confident and highly motivated (you find these in every group!) but for those people like my nephew who constantly worry about how they will communicate every time they interface with the hearing world travelling overseas on their own must seem more of a challenge. It would be a shame if he wasn't being taught more skills on how to deal with hearing people. I think practice with role play is an excellent way of building peoples' confidence.

BTW I travelled around the world by myself at the age of 18 and it was an awesome experience. I met so many people including my future husband! :) I highly recommend it. (although it's not very environmentally sound anymore!)
 
[QUOTE=shel90;809912]Excuse me...I know so many deaf people who are signers and dont have oral skills that have traveled around the world just fine. Deaf people, oral or not, are capable of doing anything. To think that deaf signers cant do this or that is typical of the public's view on deaf signers. That needs to be changed!
My brother who is deaf and has no oral skills spent 2 weeks alone in Hawaii and he is still alive. BTW, he didnt need a terp at all. He is smart enough to know how to overcome the communication barriers so can many other deaf people who dont have oral skills.

That kind of view is what is hurting many deaf people out there. Have some faith! :roll:[/QUOTE]


I am not saying that they cant do anything, simply that with sign only it would limit the number of people they could easily communicate with. In a foreign country where english is not the norm I would guess that writing things down would not be much help.
 
shel90 said:
Your view as stated in your post about needing oral skills to travel or being indendepent was a personal insult to me because u are insulting my brother and my friends who dont have any oral skills whom I care so much about. So, dont try to come off as innocent!
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My most humble apologies on voicing what is obviously a touchy subject. Far be it from me to insult anyone, either intentionally or unintentionally. I shall take myself away before I cause more grief.
 
I agree. If I were to travel on my own in a foreign country, I'd bring pen and paper and go on self guided tours. I wouldn't speak in the language unless I have an idea how to say the words correctly.


I've been to UK, Scotland and Ireland with my family. I remember Yorkshire well because I couldn't understand the locals nor could locals understand us especially my little sister. I got by by pointing to things that I wanted in a restruant. I found out that Brits call English muffins crumpets over there.

I met a French deaf family in Scotland and we had a wonderful conversation. My father learned that ASL is similar to FSL (I forget the French words for french sign language. Sorry!). I told him had I been talking to a deaf Brit who uses BSL, I'd not understand him very well as ASL is totally different from BSL.
 
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