CI--Deaf or Hearing?

[Beach girl]

SEE is not a language. Hearing people took a beautiful language (ASL) and f***cked it up to meet their agenda. It would be like Deaf people taking English and f**cking it up to meet their agenda.

Come on..SEE is cumbersome and hard on deaf children's language development.

Well..... you may have noticed that plenty of people writing here DO f***k up the English language to meet their agenda. There is a whole thread on "Grammar" which is basically a tribute to ignorance and why should anyone be concerned about grammar anyway, and so on and so forth.

Do you think grammar and correct usage should be equally as important in ASL as in written English? Or vice versa, perhaps I should say?

What I'm getting at is that just as written English seems to be difficult for some people, perhaps correctly signing ASL is difficult enough for others that they use SEE instead, which apparently is easier. Is that really a problem, or is it just a shortcut that meets a temporary need?

 

[Bottesini]

Well..... you may have noticed that plenty of people writing here DO f***k up the English language to meet their agenda. There is a whole thread on "Grammar" which is basically a tribute to ignorance and why should anyone be concerned about grammar anyway, and so on and so forth.

Do you think grammar and correct usage should be equally as important in ASL as in written English? Or vice versa, perhaps I should say?

What I'm getting at is that just as written English seems to be difficult for some people, perhaps correctly signing ASL is difficult enough for others that they use SEE instead, which apparently is easier. Is that really a problem, or is it just a shortcut that meets a temporary need?

Oh no, oh no, oh no, oh no.. I can't think of what to say.

 

[Beach girl]

Uh-oh - didn't want to knock you speechless, Botts!

 

[Jiro]

Well..... you may have noticed that plenty of people writing here DO f***k up the English language to meet their agenda. There is a whole thread on "Grammar" which is basically a tribute to ignorance and why should anyone be concerned about grammar anyway, and so on and so forth.

Do you think grammar and correct usage should be equally as important in ASL as in written English? Or vice versa, perhaps I should say?

What I'm getting at is that just as written English seems to be difficult for some people, perhaps correctly signing ASL is difficult enough for others that they use SEE instead, which apparently is easier. Is that really a problem, or is it just a shortcut that meets a temporary need?

no it's not the same thing. very poor analogy. here's what you can try to understand....

English - a complete language - is what hearing people use to communicate with each other.
ASL - a complete language - is what deaf people use to communicate with each other.

 

[Beach girl]

OK. Tell Shel it's not that great an analogy, then. She was the one who compared SEE vs. ASL to being the same thing as messing up the English language.

 

[Jiro]

OK. Tell Shel it's not that great an analogy, then. She was the one who compared SEE vs. ASL to being the same thing as messing up the English language.

because shel is trying to get you to understand the implication of teaching incomplete language to deaf children.

does that concern you?

 

[Beach girl]

Sure.

It also concerns me when people think they can screw up written English and then say "oh, who cares if I can't spell, can't write correctly, can't put together a correct sentence, it's only those mean ol' grammar Nazis who care."

If you want people to use correct ASL, I applaud that, as I applaud correct usage in whatever language people are using.

 

[CSign]

because shel is trying to get you to understand the implication of teaching incomplete language to deaf children.

does that concern you?

ASL is a complete language.
English (visually supported with Signing Exact English) is a complete language.
PSE/CASE is not a complete language.

 

[Jiro]

Sure.

It also concerns me when people think they can screw up written English and then say "oh, who cares if I can't spell, can't write correctly, can't put together a correct sentence, it's only those mean ol' grammar Nazis who care."

If you want people to use correct ASL, I applaud that, as I applaud correct usage in whatever language people are using.

we're not concerned with that. we're mainly concerned with teaching a complete language to our children to begin with.

 

[Jiro]

ASL is a complete language.
English (visually supported with Signing Exact English) is a complete language.
PSE/CASE is not a complete language.

I see. so just to be sure I know what your situation is...

1. what sign language are you using with your son?
2. who picked it and why?
3. how long have you been signing it?

 

[CSign]

I see. so just to be sure I know what your situation is...

1. what sign language are you using with your son?
2. who picked it and why?
3. how long have you been signing it?

I'm not going to respond any further to this question besides this. I've already made it clear in the other thread that has been referenced multiple times what I use with my child, and what my plans are with my child.

I can assure you though, my son and I have no problem communicating or understanding eachother whether his HA's are on or off.

 

[Jiro]

I'm not going to respond any further to this question besides this. I've already made it clear in the other thread that has been referenced multiple times what I use with my child, and what my plans are with my child.

I don't read other threads... which is why I asked you cuz I don't really know anything about you at all.

I can assure you though, my son and I have no problem communicating or understanding eachother whether his HA's are on or off.

ah so it's for your own benefit... but aren't you concerned about his ability to communicate with other deaf people?

 

[CSign]

I don't read other threads... which is why I asked you cuz I don't really know anything about you at all.


ah so it's for your own benefit... but aren't you concerned about his ability to communicate with other deaf people?

I could have sworn you just said you were concerned with "teaching the children a complete language to begin with". I am using a complete language with my son.
Yes, his ability to communicate freely with other individuals who are DHH is important to me.
No, nothing I ever do for my child is motivated by my benefit- it is motivated by his needs and his benefit. My child is number one.

 

[posts from hell]

Just a heads up, I saw a couple of people here today using SEE, and grew up with SEE....

Reinforced what I was thinking though.

 

[Jiro]

I could have sworn you just said you were concerned with "teaching the children a complete language to begin with". I am using a complete language with my son.

yes that's what I said. so is it SEE?

Yes, his ability to communicate freely with other individuals who are DHH is important to me.

No, nothing I ever do for my child is motivated by my benefit- it is motivated by his needs and his benefit. My child is number one.

good to know. curious - who picked the sign language to begin with?

 

[deafskeptic]

Well..... you may have noticed that plenty of people writing here DO f***k up the English language to meet their agenda. There is a whole thread on "Grammar" which is basically a tribute to ignorance and why should anyone be concerned about grammar anyway, and so on and so forth.

Do you think grammar and correct usage should be equally as important in ASL as in written English? Or vice versa, perhaps I should say?

What I'm getting at is that just as written English seems to be difficult for some people, perhaps correctly signing ASL is difficult enough for others that they use SEE instead, which apparently is easier. Is that really a problem, or is it just a shortcut that meets a temporary need?

Speaking of ignorance, you're quite ignorant of how deafness can affect the language development of those who became deaf before the age 3. If the deaf child has limited or no access to language, they will suffer language delays. Hearing aids or CIs only offer partial access to spoken language at best.

Those who became deaf after age 3 are not likely to have language delays.

Though I do my best to correct my mistakes in English, I can't entirely hide my own language delays. Overcoming language delays for many d/Deaf is a very frustrating process - hence why it's considered rude to correct other people's grammar on AD.

AS for SEE, it mangles everything that is great about both ASL and English. Everything that makes English a great spoken language is extremely awkward to use in sign - especially gerunds and suffixes. Even when people start using SEE, they tend to end up using PSE because it's less awkward than SEE. And I'm talking bout hearing signers who will have strong bias toward English.

I think SEE has it's uses in English class and even then only as a way to show the differences between ASL and Englsh but for everyday conservation? -
HELL NO. I say this as some who loves the English language.

As for ASL, the syntax is quite different from English. The syntax is usually described as a topic verb object or it can be object, subject verb sentence depending on if you use passive or objective voice.

It's clear to many signers when they meet me for the tirst time that ASL is my second langauge. I don't quite sign it like a native user of ASL.

 

[deafbajagal]

SEE is NOT a language.

It is a visual mode and representation of English...and a poor one, at that.

 

[deafbajagal]

CASE is NOT a language.

It is a visual mode and representation of English...and a good one, at that.

 

[deafskeptic]

SEE is NOT a language.

It is a visual mode and representation of English...and a poor one, at that.

Exactly.

 

[DeafCaroline]

Well..... you may have noticed that plenty of people writing here DO f***k up the English language to meet their agenda. There is a whole thread on "Grammar" which is basically a tribute to ignorance and why should anyone be concerned about grammar anyway, and so on and so forth.

Do you think grammar and correct usage should be equally as important in ASL as in written English? Or vice versa, perhaps I should say?

What I'm getting at is that just as written English seems to be difficult for some people, perhaps correctly signing ASL is difficult enough for others that they use SEE instead, which apparently is easier. Is that really a problem, or is it just a shortcut that meets a temporary need?

Beachgirl, if you learned ASL, you would understand so much better what we're talking about.

You think the "Grammar" thread is a tribute to ignorance? Really? And what you said here; "
Well..... you may have noticed that plenty of people writing here DO f***k up the English language to meet their agenda."

I don't know what to say to that...Like Botts...speechless.