Childs behavior

BecLak said:
:D I am so glad that you are finally understanding me. I have had difficulties in communicating this in our current discussion it seems. :aw:
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Well, I think we've both been rephrasing A LOT to get at the finer points of what we're trying to communicate :) Just seemed to me that this time you conveyed a differentiation between those dreaded orals skills and that abominable spoken language that you very well may have been saying, but I wasn't picking up on before.
 
faire_jour said:
I would just say a fluent spoken language user. I don't care about articulation at all.
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ok, let's take this one step further - Since many here want to keep the term
'oral skills'.....we use it then as most people understand it as:

ORAL SKILLS = ARTICULATION

Can we then coin a new term for 'fluent spoken language user'? Something short and sweet? :hmm: ....Thinking...
 
GrendelQ said:
Well, I think we've both been rephrasing A LOT to get at the finer points of what we're trying to communicate :) Just seemed to me that this time you conveyed a differentiation between those dreaded orals skills and that abominable spoken language that you very well may have been saying, but I wasn't picking up on before.
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A problem we face so often as D/deaf is because we cannot articulate well (it doesn't come naturally to us as you well know), we are often wrongly labelled as unintelligent, dumb, stupid. Some of us, after a lot of hard work have been able to articulate and even then not perfectly. But others who are unable to articulate for whatever reason get hit with that misconception the most. I just want to find a way that we can educate the public to give proper recognition where it is due. Coining a new term may help immensely to do away with that misconception.
 
BecLak said:
A problem we face so often as D/deaf is because we cannot articulate well (it doesn't come naturally to us as you well know), we are often wrongly labelled as unintelligent, dumb, stupid. Some of us, after a lot of hard work have been able to articulate and even then not perfectly. But others who are unable to articulate for whatever reason get hit with that misconception the most. I just want to find a way that we can educate the public to give proper recognition where it is due. Coining a new term may help immensely to do away with that misconception.
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I think just say that Deaf people are fluent in English despite not being able to speak it?
 
BecLak said:
ok, let's take this one step further - Since many here want to keep the term
'oral skills'.....we use it then as most people understand it as:

ORAL SKILLS = ARTICULATION

Can we then coin a new term for 'fluent spoken language user'? Something short and sweet? :hmm: ....Thinking...
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May I clarify - term for a fluent spoken language user who does not necessarily have articulation.
 
Learning from history, In order to diffuse negative connotations, it is necessary to have a term that has a positive connotation to replace it, thus re-educating people in the right way. I am not talking about 'labels' here.
 
BecLak said:
Learning from history, In order to diffuse negative connotations, it is necessary to have a term that has a positive connotation to replace it, thus re-educating people in the right way. I am not talking about 'labels' here.
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It works for me...
 
shel90 said:
I think just say that Deaf people are fluent in English despite not being able to speak it?
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Good description, Shel. :ty:

I am just thinking that this is something that comes up frequently in educating the public about Deaf issues. I believe that if we can come up with a common phrase or term that depicts this description then it will diffuse a lot of the arguments that we have experienced even on this thread.
 
They are able to use rote phrases, to communicate with hearing people (phrases like "I am Deaf") but are not fluent spoken language users. They sign, they read and write but they can not understand or use spoken language.
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how about they have survival speech skills? It would be like I can undy French or Latin and can "catch" some spoken French (especially if it's slow) but I can't speak it too well.. I just have a very basic spoken French abilty.
 
GrendelQ said:
Wow. Hearing people can have issues around developing or maintaining oral skills. The majority of SLP activity involves hearing people.

He had oral skills. He no longer does. And yet he still has a fluent grasp of English (the spoken mode).
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You are missing the whole point. His loss of oral language was the result of disease process. Prior to pathology, he developed language in the same way that any other hearing person does. Therefore, he can be said to still have those capabilities. Pathology has limited only is use, not his knowledge of. He is a very poor example to compare to the deaf child. The deaf child has cognitive and processing differences that Stephen Hawking never encountered.
 
shel90 said:
Yea..I am still going to stand by what I learned in grad school from my lingusitics professors...oral skills equate to having spoken English skills.
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And any one with any knowledge at all of linguistics would agree and understand exactly what you were saying when you used the term.
 
GrendelQ said:
Anyone involved in neurolinguistics is going to differentiate the skills involved in learning to speak words and learning to write letters from language development.

Of course writing letters is connected to learning written language, but knowing how to write is not the same as knowing English (in fact, some people type, some dictate, some write other languages). Writing is a skill that can be employed in expressing the language, but it is not involved in receptive activity, reading written language.

Similarly, oral skills are connected to learning spoken language, but knowing how to speak is not the same as knowing English. Oral skills can be employed in expressing the language, but are not involved in receptive activity, hearing spoken language.
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The first two are motor skills. They have relatively little to do with language development.

Neurolinguists is not concerned with motor skills. They are concerned with the way language is processed in the brain and the effect it has on the processing and interpretation of stimuli. It is also concerned with specific areas of the brain involved in linguistic processing, and how those areas interact with other areas.
 
faire_jour said:
My daughter, pre-CI. As I said, she was being taught a few words to use withhearing people. She was being taught to memorize the sounds, and they were connecting it back to the signs she knew, but she was not learning English. She didn't understand the language. She was being taught how to express a few things orally, (what I would call "oral skills") but she did not understand or use the language.
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If she was connecting that sound, or even that mouth movement back then, she was actually learning more than you give her credit for. She was learning the symbolic nature and function of language and grasping that any symbol can be used to represent any concept. That is the foundation of acquisition of language.
 
GrendelQ said:
My daughter, for a time, called all small dogs and cats "Gryphons" and large dogs, horses, and seals (! I think seals somehow looked like black lab heads to her) "Grendels" because these were the names of our cat and one of our dogs. All women were "mama" and all men "daddy." She said these words beautifully, but they made little sense, linguistically she hadn't grasped the difference between personal names and species of animals or how family relationships are expressed.
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That was developmentally appropriate from a cognitive perspective. All kids do the same, deaf or hearing. Their scope and categorization are broad...for obvious reasons.
 
jillio said:
You are missing the whole point. His loss of oral language was the result of disease process. Prior to pathology, he developed language in the same way that any other hearing person does. Therefore, he can be said to still have those capabilities. Pathology has limited only is use, not his knowledge of. He is a very poor example to compare to the deaf child. The deaf child has cognitive and processing differences that Stephen Hawking never encountered.
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The difference between use and knowledge, between motor skills and language is exactly the distinction I've been trying to make, both with examples specific to deafness and -- because people were taking it as an indictment of their oral upbringings, using a relevant example without involving deafness.

Too many people have suffered through a single-minded focus on the development of oral skills -- a perfecting of delivery method -- without appropriately tying those skills to the use of language and sometimes in lieu of language, assuming they were one and the same. They aren't.
 
jillio said:
And any one with any knowledge at all of linguistics would agree and understand exactly what you were saying when you used the term.
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That's true, because so many people make the mistake of assuming that simply by developing oral skills, you are also developing language, so they'd be very familiar with commonplace misuse of the terms.
 
Don't worry..it's a phase..I hope it will pass

Im a parent with 3 years old son too who have BI-CI too..I am going through the same thing as you. Its just a testing stage and he has been driving me crazy too. But the best thing is to..when he/she acts like that. Calmly walk her to the timeout spot and tell her that you're giving her a TO until she stop screaming or crying or acting out. I did that with my son..its getting better every time..so he knows that Im not gonna "fight" with him..nor put up with his "behaviours" every time. That is the key. If she run away..take her again and sit her down. Don't talk to her or make eye contact. keep doing it until she calm down and then after 3 minutes (one minute per age) then you tell her that you gave her TO cuz of what she did wrong.."screaming or fighting.." and now that she is calm ..you can reason what you want her to do or tell her what you want to say. Remember keep to her level..eye contact level too. stay calm..I know it;s easy to get rev up but this best example to "role model" so you can expect the best behaviour from her.
if you want you can email me privately..let me know. Im an Early Childhood Educator with Sp. Needs for almost 20 years and work with children who have hearing loss. PLUS my son is deaf as well..we used BOTH speech and ASL. (and I also have profound hearing loss too..)
 
KJackgirl said:
Im a parent with 3 years old son too who have BI-CI too..I am going through the same thing as you. Its just a testing stage and he has been driving me crazy too. But the best thing is to..when he/she acts like that. Calmly walk her to the timeout spot and tell her that you're giving her a TO until she stop screaming or crying or acting out. I did that with my son..its getting better every time..so he knows that Im not gonna "fight" with him..nor put up with his "behaviours" every time. That is the key. If she run away..take her again and sit her down. Don't talk to her or make eye contact. keep doing it until she calm down and then after 3 minutes (one minute per age) then you tell her that you gave her TO cuz of what she did wrong.."screaming or fighting.." and now that she is calm ..you can reason what you want her to do or tell her what you want to say. Remember keep to her level..eye contact level too. stay calm..I know it;s easy to get rev up but this best example to "role model" so you can expect the best behaviour from her.
if you want you can email me privately..let me know. Im an Early Childhood Educator with Sp. Needs for almost 20 years and work with children who have hearing loss. PLUS my son is deaf as well..we used BOTH speech and ASL. (and I also have profound hearing loss too..)
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Hi KJackgirl -- welcome!! I LOVE that you bring not only your experience as an educator, and are a professional with expertise in special needs no less, but also that you yourself have direct knowledge of what it is to be deaf AND to parent a deaf child! Very excited that you've taken this particular route, combining ASL and CIs/spoken language, as we have with our 4YO. I really look forward to reading your posts.
 
Very excited that you've taken this particular route, combining ASL and CIs/spoken language, as we have with our 4YO. I
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I do think this may be a lot more common...having bilingal dhh kids. I do think that with my generation of kids becoming parents, that they may be more open to a bilingal route. It does seem that a lot of parents who chose the oral only route in the past, were doing so in part b/c a) They thought of ASL as something that had a HUGE stigma of "disablity" They saw oral only as something more "normal" That attitude is still around, but has lessened and b) Most parents of past years really didn't have a lot of exposure to kids with disabilites while growing up. That in turn freaked them out b/c they didn't know what a real live dhh person's life was like growing up.
 
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