Can't we all get along?

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I think what it all boils down to is that people are afraid of retaliation. Whether that be violent retaliation from the disturbed person, or even a lawsuit.

I am not sure if I am able to convey this the way I want to in English (I can in ASL).

Maybe it is just societal conditioning to "stay out of it, its not MY business". Maybe it is just "easier" to take the path of least resistance?
 
Your asking about Loughner. Ok, neutral intervention would have been an instructor asking to talk to him outside of class. A recommendation to visit MHC on campus. Put him in contact with a counselor.

Stuff like that. Why wasn't it done?

Easier said than done. A recommendation to visit MHC on campus? You just opened yourself to a lawsuit. could be defamation. humiliation. punitive damage. College is not the same as high school.

Loughner's Mental Illness: Six Disturbing Warning Signs - TIME
In most states, including Arizona, it's predictably difficult to detain someone involuntarily due to mental illness. If he is not deemed an imminent danger to himself or others, as determined by a judge, in almost all cases, treatment will not come without the person in question admitting that they are ill and need help. Even then, there is no guarantee that help will come readily or swiftly.

Regardless of resources available, however, the problem with someone like Jared Loughner is that, without a court order, he would not have received treatment without a self-referral. It appears that his community college, which kicked him out, rightly protected its own population — at least one student and one teacher told the New York Times they feared Loughner would bring a gun to class — but left the rest of the community vulnerable. It would have been up to Loughner to seek treatment, a move many psychiatrically ill people would never make. "Most young people who develop a psychiatric illness — particularly a psychotic illness in which they've lost the ability to discern fantasy from reality — don't have a lot of insight into the fact that they are ill," says Duckworth. He points to a recent online NAMI survey that found that schizophrenics suffered an average of nine years between their onset of symptoms, which often first appear in the late teens and early 20s, and diagnosis.

Often, authorities can intervene only once the illness has taken a dramatic, if not criminal, turn.

Other than a public breakdown and a threat to order, however, institutions with some sense of guardianship over individuals, like schools, colleges and, perhaps, corporations, may be the only potential intervenors — though even then, their options are limited by law and by the efficiency of bureaucracies. "At an institution like a university, this [has become] an expected problem," Duckworth says of mental illness. He reports that mental-health professionals working in college settings are overwhelmed by the intensity of the illnesses they see and by the sheer numbers of students in need of treatment.

Hindsight is perfect, of course, but all institutions need to monitor students and employees who are consistently acting strangely. There was arguably enough evidence for Pima authorities to go to a judge and have Loughner involuntarily committed to a mental hospital, as Virginia Tech did with Cho. At the very least, the college could have required Loughner to check in with a counselor on a daily or weekly basis.
 
I think what it all boils down to is that people are afraid of retaliation. Whether that be violent retaliation from the disturned person, or even a lawsuit.

I am not sure if I am able to convey this the way I want to in English (I can in ASL).

Maybe it is just societal conditioning to "stay out of it, its not MY business". Maybe it is just "easier" to take the path of least resistance?

it's because "crazy" is subjective. Like I said - you're treading very closely on a very thin line of the Amendment 1.
 
it's because "crazy" is subjective. Like I said - you're treading very closely on a very thin line of the Amendment 1.

No, my idea of intervention is not infringing on anyone's rights. Simply "talking" is not against the law.
 
No, my idea of intervention is not infringing on anyone's rights. Simply "talking" is not against the law.

that's what Loughner did. He was simple "talking" crazy :)
 
that's what Loughner did. He was simple "talking" crazy :)

so why didn't anyone "talk" some sense into him? Why didn't anyone use their 1st amendment rights to say "hey, um, duuude, you need to see a shrink in a bad way"

As in, lay down on that couch and don't get up.
 
allright...I think Loughner's case should've went somewhere outside the school once it hit a certain threshold/pattern. I mean if a Psych can recognize his behavioral temperament deteriorating they should give the case to a higher-ranking pysch.

Most healthcare systems have different levels of care, so a minor case might get a clinical social worker, medium case gets a psychologist and then a high risk case might go a psychiatrist.

I'm hoping more pysch careerists recognize more serious cases quicker and maybe hoping that society isn't as cautious about reporting cases and keeping it confidential. At least where we work, it's easily taken care of.

Thought Police, anyone? :Ohno:
 

;)

I understand what you are saying Jiro. There IS a definite thin line between intervention and infringement. There are also cultural and sub cultural differences that can lead one group to think the other is looney (evolution vs. intelligent design for an example).

With all the different sub cultural cliches, Loughner may have just appeared to be perfectly normal to his peers.

However, actions have nothing to do with "thought police". Loughner was physically acting crazy and no one intervened.
 
;)

I understand what you are saying Jiro. There IS a definite thin line between intervention and infringement. There are also cultural and sub cultural differences that can lead one group to think the other is looney (evolution vs. intelligent design for an example).

With all the different sub cultural cliches, Loughner may have just appeared to be perfectly normal to his peers.

However, actions have nothing to do with "thought police". Loughner was physically acting crazy and no one intervened.

still doesn't warrant institutionalizing people who was physically acting crazy. There are many people with strong opinion who like to gesture a lot when talking.
 
? I'm confused by "Thought Police"...you think that's being over-paranoid about someone?

that's what your previous post implies. It reeks of Thought Police.
 
that's what your previous post implies. It reeks of Thought Police.

so you think of it as reckless (i.e. no confidentiality) force with all the same credentials and opinions?

A Police Force is usually strictly uniform in rules and procedures. Hierarchy and militaristic. Contrast that with a mental health care system at a community college, local hospital and prisoners. You're probably going to find a mix of several of these types at a community college.

What I'm suggesting is that Loughner probably hit a level before an adequate credentialed worker could help him. And that person probably would've been have to have been contacted outside the community college. You're not going to keep a very senior psychiatrist stationed at a community college when there isn't one a hospital or prison would you?
 
still doesn't warrant institutionalizing people who was physically acting crazy. There are many people with strong opinion who like to gesture a lot when talking.

I never said anything about detainment, I was talking about intervention.
 
I never said anything about detainment, I was talking about intervention.

Both Seung-Hui Cho and Stephen Kazmierczak were intervened by a psychiatrist. Both have been to college's mental health center. Both had received psychiatric care.

so... a neutral intervention? a "what seems to be bothering you" talk? How would that help prevent a mentally-ill person from committing a massacre?
 
so you think of it as reckless (i.e. no confidentiality) force with all the same credentials and opinions?

A Police Force is usually strictly uniform in rules and procedures. Hierarchy and militaristic. Contrast that with a mental health care system at a community college, local hospital and prisoners. You're probably going to find a mix of several of these types at a community college.

What I'm suggesting is that Loughner probably hit a level before an adequate credentialed worker could help him. And that person probably would've been have to have been contacted outside the community college. You're not going to keep a very senior psychiatrist stationed at a community college when there isn't one a hospital or prison would you?

I take it that you've never read George Orwell book - 1984?
 
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