Can you bear the truth?

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Crazymanw00t said:
That's great that you confessed your sin to God.
I understood your situation. I am not blaming to you. You had done something best for yourself. "That is something Jesus would never say to me." Jesus will want you to know the truth. Therefore he will tell you the truth answer as I do
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(Ezekiel 18:4 NIV) For every living soul belongs to me, the father as well as the son--both alike belong to me. The soul who sins is the one who will die.

Notice last part of that statement? The soul who sins is the one who will die. Now a baby cannot sin, because they do not know right from wrong, therefore the baby is not a sinner. Read very careful.

And you brought up about Adam and Eve, You need to get your facts correct, What was Adam and Eve's sin? It was disobedience, but how? They ate from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, Now they had to pay the price for not obeying God.

I also have a few movies of Old testment of party who was around Jesus at that time, You have heard of Mary Magdalene? I don't like to call her "whore" But that is what people call her in the past, who bathes Jesus's feet with her tears, dries them with her hair, kisses them, Did Jesus even judged her because the way she was? No, He forgave her and He would never tell her that she is a sinner not something like you would say to me. I don't care what your "bible" says to you Crazymanw00t, If you are a christen like you say you are, Then you wouldn't be judging me, like you did. :nono:
We are going off topic now and I was brave enough to admit my abortion situation, that most people are afraid to say, I don't need you to judge me or tell me what God will do to my baby, Because nobody knows what God plans are for each one of us. Even You do not know it either. That is all I wanted to say.
 
:gpost: , dearest Cheri!

I know these stories since I read bible history alot. I still read sometimes.
 
Very interesting, Reba.

You know - I'm one of those countless, faceless women who have had an abortion...and it was for a medical reason.

I'm not leaving Cheri out there alone...I empathize with her...and I know how she felt about being attacked for having an abortion.

I had to have an abortion in 1994- I was about five months pregnant, and I started getting really sick and having serious back aches...on the next visit to the doctor, we found out that the baby had died...and was decomposing in my womb.

I had the abortion about a week later - it took me almost a year to fully recover from the experience. While I was sad that the baby died, I have never regretted getting the abortion. NEVER. I knew it was for the best, since the baby had died, and it was making me ill.

However...guess what? There are self-serving, righteous hypocrites that thinks abortion in ANY case is WRONG. You cannot imagine being in my position coming out of the clinic during that time...it was a really bad time to have one. I was attacked, hit by signs and rocks, and yelled at... no one even cared why I had to have it, all they could see was a "murderess," and even worse.

Ive known people that had to have abortions in extreme cases - one was a 13 year old girl that had been raped by her father; one was a 12 year old girl who had been raped by her brother; a 15 year old girl that had been gang-raped in high school. I sympathized with them and understood their choices of getting an abortion - maybe it wasnt their choice, but in their cases, they were TOO YOUNG to go full term and deal with the pain of childbirth.

I feel and still strongly believe that abortion is a woman's choice - not the court's choice, not those pro-lifers, not those who would force the woman to get an illegal abortion...but her PERSONAL choice. We may not always agree, but we should support them and their choice. It may be the most difficult choice they ever face in their life.

I know. I been there. I ... I'm trying not to cry...but if I could have, it would be to bear a LIVE child.

So, when you start posting these kind of things, it's distressing, because I know the other side, and I know what many of those women were going thru, and you're ready to THUMP the Bible, call it a sin, open a thread and berate those who have had an abortion, and in general, be self-serving and righteous, with NO respect or care for those others.

I have been to the other side, and I'm staying pro-choice.
 
:gpost:

Thanks DreamDeaf, That was the sweetest thing that anyone ever done, Wishes there were more people like you here on earth. It made me end up in tears :tears: Thank you again DreamDeaf, It meant so much to me. :hug:
 
Crazymanw00t said:
^Angel^

I am with school work right now, after my classes and I will write down with verses. Look, I do not judge the baby, but the verses already told us the truth answer. Therefore I am bringing to here to show the truth answer. If the mother confessed their sin and they need Jesus, therefore the mother is saved. If they follow the "Who has the Savlation?" at On-Debate Thread. Yes, the baby had sin. The baby haven't confessed that they are sinner, yet. Therefore you know the answer.
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How can a small innocent baby confessed his/her sin, when a baby hasn't done no sin in the eye of God, yet you are twisting this around, the mother who is the one who sin cause she has an abortion, yet she seek God for forgiveness, read your bible once again and come back with the truth, if you don't have the truth, be careful about sending the wrong information about God to people ...because that is not the truth, the bible say NOTHING about a baby going to hell once the mother abort her child...
 
Cheri, Oceanbreeze and Dreamdeaf: Very, very good posts... :thumb: :thumb:

Like what Oceanbreeze said, this topic is very one-sided... I will post the other side of truth later. I had this ex who had a abortion... Honestly, I am not pro-choice or pro-life.. I am ALL FOR WOMEN WHO MAKE THEIR DECISIONS FOR THIER OWN BODIES AND THEIR LIVES. Not government. Not Religious Right. Not Bible Humpers. Not God. Not Jesus. Not men. It is WOMEN. No one else. Women have the rights to make their own decisions for their bodies and their future.

Reba or Religious Right, if you don't like the conception of abortion then don't 'abort'. That's all you need to do really...

People, keep that in your mind... these 'facts' that Reba posted is based off faith-based doctors or scientists' biased researches. Not logic-based people so these 'facts' are quite dangerous to be 'reliable' to make a decision. Numbers and numbers of logic-based scientists/doctors in Germany, England, Sweden, Switzerland, and other countries already debunked these faith-based scientists/doctors' biased researches & 'facts' in America. But again, don't let their facts (both logic-based and faith-based) to make a decision for you... You are the one who makes the final decision for your baby. Not government. Not non-freethinking Religious Right. Not Freethinking Liberals.

btw, women.. Europe included Sweden is working on open the 'clinics' for American-women to have the abortion if morons in Supreme Court remove your rights for making a decision about abortion. All women need to do is buy the airplane ticket and go there. They will not write down or input anything in any kind of record if any of you plan to have a abortion in Europe so that they will protect you from these Religious Right berserkers. They know that what Religious Right plan to do is morally wrong and against Jesus's teaching about imposing the beliefs on you. That's small 'good news' for you. Cheers.

One last thing, it sickens me when people start to use the bible against you women... so-called 'sinner'. God and Jesus forbids that kind of ridiculous thing (imposing their beliefs on you or judge you).. I will start with the abortion debate by post the topic, 'Abortion is NOT a sin' to use the bible against them. Check my topic in 30 mins or so. Also please be sure to check The_Heretic's wonderful topic: How to think like a Christian to provide the insight in Christians and their brains about the bible thingy.

Once again... Cheri, Oceanbreeze and Dreamdeaf, very good posts :thumb: No one on this earth have the rights to judge or impose their beliefs on you. You, who make the decision for your baby and your life. Not them. Be strong... don't let them (included me) change your mind with their 'facts'.
 
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I deeply admire the women in here for their courage in sharing their stories, and my message to those ladies is---Do NOT let ignorant others force you into guilt trips. In making their anti-choice stances, they are using craven emotionalism and no logic whatsoever. These people have no clue that there is a difference between morality and ethics. Morality is something that belongs to an individual making personal, private decisions. Ethics is lumped with society as a whole, the public and social decisions it makes. America is supposedly a pluralistic society, a melting pot of varied religions, and because certain religions are more violently opposed to differing views, there are conflicts.
This is unfortunate, because when you take "morality" into context, a woman who is free and informed makes a choice that she alone is responsible for. At the other spectrum, that same woman must have her choices made by Monkeyboy Bush or a Supreme Court Justice. I am SO glad women today have choices, because I am an American patriot.
Now, is abortion murder? Nawww. How in the WORLD could we debate this, since "murder" is not a neutral term? This "debate" will forever be going in circles, because the conclusion is already the starting point, which is despiceable. Because we begin with the presumed "definition" of abortion, all "debates" here will deteriorate into hurt feelings and shouting matches, and this makes me feel very angry.
In my opinion, abortion must be defined neutrally as the intentional termination of an unwanted pregnancy, nothing more and nothing less.
Murder? *scoff*
In a fetus, no brain is present during the first few weeks of pregnancy, so I am totally disgusted that Reba has them writing diaries. It takes many weeks for individual cells to become transformed into neurons, for the neurons to grow and reach out and connect to other neurons, and for the central nervous system to develop, for the fetus to achieve self-awareness and consciousness.
From that fact alone, the only ethical conclusion I can draw is that an early-stage abortion does NOT constitute "murder."
I hope that helps you, Cheri, and the rest of the courageous women in here.
Everyone else who hypocritically condemn you can just go straight to sweet hell.
 
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It´s sad and touchy to read your story, DD and Cheri.



Reba,
Interesting thread.

I´m neutral and would not judge anyone´s decision for that because it´s their bodies.

I am for an abortion:

Risk mother´s life
Malforation baby
dead baby


I am not for an abortion:

healthy baby


I would give baby up for an adoption because the baby deserve to be alive and happy.

If I doesnt feel ready to be mother
If I am unfit mother
If I cant give the baby my love and attention
 
Cheri, you had misunderstood me.

I am not judging you. It came straight from bible and I bring it to you. It is not totally from my opinion.

Ok here's the verses how the baby receives the sin.

Simple go to Genesis and read chapter 2 and 3. The sin were created from Adam and Eve. They rebelled aganist holy of God. Therefore they were kicked out of Garden because of their sin.

All verses are NLT(New Living Translation)

Now Go to Psalm 51:5, Pslam 58:3-4

51:5 For I was born a sinner--
yes, from the moment my mother conceived me.

58:3 These wicked people are born sinners;
even from birth they have lied and gone their own way.
4 They spit poison like deadly snakes;
they are like cobras that refuse to listen,

Now go to Romans 3:9-20

9 Well then, are we Jews better than others? No, not at all, for we have already shown that all people, whether Jews or Gentiles, are under the power of sin. 10 As the Scriptures say,

"No one is good--
not even one.

11 No one has real understanding;
no one is seeking God.

12 All have turned away from God;
all have gone wrong. No one does good,
not even one."

13 "Their talk is foul, like the stench from an open grave.
Their speech is filled with lies." "The poison of a deadly snake drips from their lips."

14 "Their mouths are full of cursing and bitterness."

15 "They are quick to commit murder.


16 Wherever they go, destruction and misery follow them.

17 They do not know what true peace is."


18 "They have no fear of God to restrain them."

19 Obviously, the law applies to those to whom it was given, for its purpose is to keep people from having excuses and to bring the entire world into judgment before God. 20For no one can ever be made right in God's sight by doing what his law commands. For the more we know God's law, the clearer it becomes that we aren't obeying it.

Most imporant part Romans 5:12

Adam and Christ Contrasted
12 When Adam sinned, sin entered the entire human race. Adam's sin brought death, so death spread to everyone, for everyone sinned.

Also Romans 5:16-17
16 And the result of God's gracious gift is very different from the result of that one man's sin. For Adam's sin led to condemnation, but we have the free gift of being accepted by God, even though we are guilty of many sins. 17 The sin of this one man, Adam, caused death to rule over us, but all who receive God's wonderful, gracious gift of righteousness will live in triumph over sin and death through this one man, Jesus Christ.

So we all are sinners even unborn still have sinners.
If you don't believe what the bible said, then I can't express the truth answer.
 
Crazymanw00t said:
Now Go to Psalm 51:5, Pslam 58:3-4

51:5 For I was born a sinner--
yes, from the moment my mother conceived me.
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Crazywoot -

Does that mean that my baby, which died in my womb, is a sinner because I had to abort it to save my life?

Think about that.
 
DreamDeaf said:
Crazywoot -

Does that mean that my baby, which died in my womb, is a sinner because I had to abort it to save my life?

Think about that.
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Sighing..I had promised NOT to respond in this thread beacuse it is too close for comfort. But I didnt want to see DD and Cheri going through this alone. I had one due to medical reasons. The pregnancy was killing me each moment - had to suffer through the agony of it for 5 months before finally terminating it due to doctors orders. :tears:

I was raised in very very strict Roman Catholic background, so you can imagine the agony and pain I had to endure ...not just physically but also spirituality and mentally and emotionally. Unfortunately my exhusband was not able to handle it and still will not forgive me to this day. But it was my body, not his.

I will always have a huge scar in my heart to this day but I had to save my life in order to remain a present mother to my two daughters who were born before this incident.

DD, you have my sympathy.
 
Does that mean that my baby..... is a sinner

No. It means that HE can find passages in the Bible which say we are all born with the propensity to sin. An unborn child has neither the means, opportunity, or motive to commit a sin either of commision, or of omission.

(edit) not knowing the gender of posters
 
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Tell that to Crazywoot, Codger.

He's the one that said that.

No, I'm not upset by what he said, but someone needs to straighten him out quickly before he alienates a lot of women here at AD.

Meg, thanks for sharing your story.
 
........but I had to save my life........

Exactly. Whether the child was already dead, or would have caused the death of the mother, or the mother was a child herself who could not have carried a baby to term, or was raped, these are instances that were not the focus of Roe V Wade. These circumstances do not comprise the majority of abortions. My heart goes out to you ladies who had to go through this. I do not think you have just cause to feel guilty because you chose to survive. And I commend you for telling your stories here where it might do some good for someone else faced with a difficult decision. Thankyou.
 
We all born sinner because of Adam and Eve then we have another kind of sins which we commit daily. Those unborn babies did not committed those sins because they never made it outside. They went home to heaven.
 
Codger said:
Exactly. Whether the child was already dead, or would have caused the death of the mother, or the mother was a child herself who could not have carried a baby to term, or was raped, these are instances that were not the focus of Roe V Wade. These circumstances do not comprise the majority of abortions. My heart goes out to you ladies who had to go through this. I do not think you have just cause to feel guilty because you chose to survive. And I commend you for telling your stories here where it might do some good for someone else faced with a difficult decision. Thankyou.
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Codger, I do have to say thank you for your support and understanding what we had to go through at that difficult time.

You do understand that if Roe vs Wade is repealed, we will not have that option anymore?
 
DreamDeaf said:
Codger, I do have to say thank you for your support and understanding what we had to go through at that difficult time.

You do understand that if Roe vs Wade is repealed, we will not have that option anymore?
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I do not like the idea of put any mother to jail because they broke the law and men get away with for having sex with women. BS. Men should go to jail for put the women thru hell.
 
Crazymanw00t,

I did not misunderstood you, It was never your place to tell me what the bible states, and You think You know everything that states in the bible not even one Christen person agree with what you stated about babies are also a sinned, if the mother aborted it. I checked the website you have provide on another thread and Here is the answer ....to your post. http://www.alldeaf.com/showpost.php?p=265395&postcount=19
 
jazzy said:
I do not like the idea of put any mother to jail because they broke the law and men get away with for having sex with women. BS. Men should go to jail for put the women thru hell.
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Total utter nonsense.
Ethically, I should put HIM in jail for saying that.
Any votes?
Morally I know it is wrong, but this guy is a scumbag so I will feel no guilt.
Moral is individual, ethic is consensus.
What do you say? Let's lock this guy up forever.
 
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