California Bill AB 2027

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kokonut said:
I do know ASL/sign language as you put it. But that wasn't the question F_J was asking.
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I was focusing on you since you said you are one of them without ASL. but you did know some ASL. That is only i want to know. I dont care about successful. everyone can be successful either with or without asl. Or hearing people with limited function can be successful or not successful. *shrug*
 
Most languages is for the hearing and speaking people. Sign Language is different. It's a language but a very unique type of language so some people can have a language at all. So it isn't like going from German to English.
 
kokonut said:
Unless you are actually living with your parents as an adult then I'd be inclined to agree.
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That statement makes absolutely no sense as a response to the comment souggy made.
 
jillio said:
But, the point that souggy is making is that it is not necessary in the U.S. to speak German in order to access school curriculum, or society. The same cannot be said for the signing deaf. He is correct. Your comparison is fallicious.
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I can see the need to learn English in a French-majority society like Quebec. Some of the Anglophones there don't know French, yet are still an important part of business in Montreal and neighbouring areas.
 
kokonut said:
When you're in a German community.
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Try to keep up, here, koko. Shall we sign it for you?

That is the whole point. This is not a German country, and it not necessary to speak German in order to access society and school curriculum. :roll::roll:
That is why it is a fallicious comparison.
 
kokonut said:
Unless you are actually living with your parents as an adult then I'd be inclined to agree.
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The constant need to prove to the hearing society and the Deaf World that you're independent acts in opposite of that.

If you really are independent, then you don't need to prove that to anyone.
 
kokonut said:
None of my signing had anything to do with my success today in terms of what I do and have done. I owe my successes to my hearing aid, my aural-oral upbringing, the ability to hear well and communicate among my hearing peers and such that laid the groundwork for my past and future successes.
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anecdotal evidence =/= documented reality and should not either.
In this case correlation does not equal to causation as a standard which obviously should not be imposed for others to follow.

You can suggest opinions, but that does not make it factual based on one experience.

Everyone knows this.
 
souggy said:
I can see the need to learn English in a French-majority society like Quebec. Some of the Anglophones there don't know French, yet are still an important part of business in Montreal and neighbouring areas.
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Sure.
 
naisho said:
anecdotal evidence =/= documented reality and should not either.
In this case correlation does not equal to causation as a standard which obviously should not be imposed for others to follow.

You can suggest opinions, but that does not make it factual based on one experience.

Everyone knows this.
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Well, you would certainly think that someone with a claimed research background would know it, wouldn't you?
 
jillio said:
But, the point that souggy is making is that it is not necessary in the U.S. to speak German in order to access school curriculum, or society. The same cannot be said for the signing deaf. He is correct. Your comparison is fallicious.
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Yes, for the signing deaf, but not all deaf people use ASL. I was demonstrating that while knowing a particular language can be useful, does not define success.
 
naisho said:
anecdotal evidence =/= documented reality and should not either.
In this case correlation does not equal to causation as a standard which obviously should not be imposed for others to follow.

You can suggest opinions, but that does not make it factual based on one experience.

Everyone knows this.
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Naisho, understand the difference of a person asking if it's possible that a deaf child can be successful without ASL. All it takes is to have ONE example, and that was me. And it's a fact. I am walking proof that a deaf child can be successful without ASL. That's undeniable. Of course, people are now quibbling over the definition of the word "successful." Although I already added a caveat, which you seemed to have conveniently ignored, by stating that "it is an area that's quite subjective and several factors are involved in making it work." Secondly, the word "deaf" is broad and can include hard of hearing children who may have mild or moderate/severe hearing loss.
 
faire_jour said:
Yes, for the signing deaf, but not all deaf people use ASL. I was demonstrating that while knowing a particular language can be useful, does not define success.
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It is still a fallicious comparison. And you have yet to define success. If not knowing ASL means that a deaf child cannot access the curriculum, nor society fully, and as a consequence ends up performing at an average level, when they have the potential to perform at a very well above average level, then how is that successful? It is settling for less than one is capable of because they have not been given the tool to live up to their potential.
 
kokonut said:
Naisho, understand the difference of a person asking if it's possible that a deaf child can be successful without ASL. All it takes is to have ONE example, and that was me. And it's a fact. I am walking proof that a deaf child can be successful without ASL. That's undeniable. Of course, people are now quibbling over the definition of the word "successful." Although I already added a caveat, which you seemed to have conveniently ignored, by stating that "it is an area that's quite subjective and several factors are involved in making it work." Secondly, the word "deaf" is broad and can include hard of hearing children who may have mild or moderate/severe hearing loss.
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Anyone with a research background would immediately ask for an operational definition of "success". The question is far too broad to be answered as stated. But one thing you have learned to do well, if not quite successfully, is back pedal.
 
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