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Still see it continue to happen.
Bye, Bye Clarke?!?!
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Still see it continue to happen.
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Yaa, I know that many of us who have no implants or use ASL with no speech skills are doomed to a crappy life because of attitude that I see here. I am looking forward to a long and crappy life! Lol
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This thread is actually about why Clarke is closing.
No one cares whether deaf kids have a good or bad life.
It's just that the true reason it is closing is that CI has sent a lot of them to the mainstream.
CSign
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I think most of us care :P
The same thing has happened with the St. Joseph School for the Deaf in St. Louis. Right now all the dormitories are closed, the nurse's office as well, and they stopped serving food because there are only 7 students now, I think. Mainstreaming is fine for a few, but they are going overboard on it.
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Yes they are. But it is happening inexorably. Just as KarrissaMann points out, nothing we can do about it.
There are things we can do about it. The media has not given attention to the attempts.
webexplorer
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I have been thinking how rude some deaf people saying that ASL is better than oral. I wish that it should never brought up. It's our own preference that we want to be oral or ASL or both. In fact, both ASL and oral users can be excelled in their English depending how good their teachers are/were.
I'm hurt that heavy ASL users banish oral deaf people out of the group for not being friends just because some oral people don't understand why. We are the same because they forgot that we are deaf, too.
How dare that ASL people stand up awhile some oral people (a sort of interpreters) help them if hearing people don't understand them. It is really nice for us to help each other in order to support our deaf community for a better communication in both worlds. I am confused and so unbelievable. I think that there is something wrong with our deaf community nowadays.
I'm hurt that heavy ASL users banish oral deaf people out of the group for not being friends just because some oral people don't understand why. We are the same because they forgot that we are deaf, too.
How dare that ASL people stand up awhile some oral people (a sort of interpreters) help them if hearing people don't understand them. It is really nice for us to help each other in order to support our deaf community for a better communication in both worlds. I am confused and so unbelievable. I think that there is something wrong with our deaf community nowadays.
Um Faire joure, WRONG!!!!!! I never said that the kids being served through the private oral schools transfer to signing schools. We've had this conversation before. The private schools ARE better about letting parents know that their kid needs ASL sooner then later yes....I remember back when CID/Clarke/St. Joseph's still had actual SCHOOL programs, there was a forum founded by the mother of an oral school student, and there were parents there who said that the oral schools strongly reccomended that their kids be enrolled in signing programs. Also, it's simply b/c the public oral programs can handle the kids easier then sending them off to Clarke/CID/St. Joseph's. ...the kids still have delays and issues. The private oral programs only handle a very small percentage of all dhh kids....and many of the caseload is ALSO HOH. They don't just serve deaf kids.....I doubt that there are enough deaf kids for three oral early intervention programs to be in business. Third of all, justb/c they're doing better in speech (meaning they just have HOH issues) it doesn't mean they're totally on par or will not fall behind. You do not understand that even in the old days when Clarke/CID/St. Joseph's still had kindergarteners in the dorms, there were still a lot of transfers in from the public schools. There's still the problem of kids falling behind, but now things have improved at the deaf schools (meaning a lot of them offer good speech therapies and lots of Clarke style intervention), so if an oral kid is struggling in the mainstream, they are sent to a state/signing deaf school instead, b/c the upper grades at Clarke/CID/St. Joseph's are now pretty much dead!
Beowulf, ONLY seven students?!?!? WOW!!!!!!!! But I thought that St. Joseph's had P-8?!?! And yes I agree 100% I have to say that I think that AG Bell and Auditory Verbal do not understand the downsides of mainstreaming/inclusion. Then again, I do know that the St. Louis public school deaf ed is pretty good. Nowadays Moog/CID/St. Joseph's, only get transfers (if they get transfers) from the public school system. Before they got transfers from all across the US.
Exactly shel, I remember you saying that you were seeing a plethora of oral kids transfer to your school, right? I wonder actually if this isn't that oralism is working, but rather a combonation of the fact that kids do not have as severe spoken language issues as they did in the past, (ie arriving at the dorms at 5 years old with only a handful of words) and b/c it might be very hard for families to get hooked up with the private oral schools, especially now that the St. Louis triad only serves locally.
Faire joure, if oralism is working so well then how come shel, bajagirl, PFH etc have seen a lot of oral kids transfer to their schools? That makes you think. There are also a lot of public oral programs that are booming....you're misisng that they've just shifted the population from the private schools to the public schools. 30 years ago it wasn't too unusual for five year old oral kids to be at Clarke in the dorms with only a handful of words. The kids who were doing better were being served in the public oral programs. Do you see now?
Oh and faire joure, I have heard the speech of the CI kids from your school, and quite frankely I am not impressed. It sounds like very classic "Clarke" speech......and you do know that you would hear the same at Kansas School for the Deaf, TLC, ISD, FSDB, CSDB and many many others!
CSign
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Is it proper within Deaf Culture for a d/Deaf/HH person to critique another DHH individual's speech?
I'm curious, as I don't know... Not trying to be difficult- just wanting to understand...
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webexplorer
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Hmm. How can we tell ASL users not to criticize on us as oral users because we care to help them? Often, I have heard that they get the wrong picture about oral's being smart. It is never brought up the issue about how smart they are - I mean both ASL and oral users. What a shame on both users...
In my opinion, some people say that it's good idea that the Clarke has to go, but which one do you think - it's because they don't like the oral - or - just the school system itself corruption?
In my opinion, some people say that it's good idea that the Clarke has to go, but which one do you think - it's because they don't like the oral - or - just the school system itself corruption?
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We had a conversation about this topic at my Deaf Church yesterday. There are ab out 17 people that all went to one or another Clarke school. I do not know where as they only said Clarke. They are all happy the Clarke is closing down or whatever. They all felt that they were bullied by the teachers because they could not learn speech and the school was forcing them to go oral. They feel that the school itself was not looking out for the student. They feel that the government stepped in way too often and told them how to try and educate a D/HH person. One lady was recounting some fo the things she went through and broke out in tears and was very emotional.
I myself do not know what it was like, so I can't give any opinions. All I know is, whenever the name Clarke is brought up at the Deaf social, the Deaf Club or the Deaf Church here, everyone cringes and turns away.
I myself do not know what it was like, so I can't give any opinions. All I know is, whenever the name Clarke is brought up at the Deaf social, the Deaf Club or the Deaf Church here, everyone cringes and turns away.
faire_jour
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Wirelessly posted
interesting. That isn't the case here at all. As i have said before, there are several Deaf families who send their deaf children to my daughter's school. Whenever we go to a Deaf community event most people are positive about her school.
KristinaB said:
interesting. That isn't the case here at all. As i have said before, there are several Deaf families who send their deaf children to my daughter's school. Whenever we go to a Deaf community event most people are positive about her school.
CSign
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Thanks for the answer Bott.
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I see the exact same response from many members of the Deaf community here. As someone who was forced to go oral only, I can totally understand.