Boot Camp Experience and Discussions

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Jiro said:
I repeat in a bold, bigger font - IT IS A LAST RESORT OPTION.
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First of all, big font does nothing for me. I'm on screen reader.

Secondly, I get that you're talking about it as a last resort. I don't think boot camp is a solution. I think the last resort should be an actual solution. I don't think boot camp fits under the category of "solutions" for troubled teens.
 
Nika said:
First of all, big font does nothing for me. I'm on screen reader.

Secondly, I get that you're talking about it as a last resort. I don't think boot camp is a solution. I think the last resort should be an actual solution. I don't think boot camp fits under the category of "solutions" for troubled teens.
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then please kindly tell us what other options do you have left in your sleeve if all options have been exhausted? more compassion and love? sorry but "hoping" you can achieve it with more compassion and love by the time teen's 18 years old is not good enough. In fact - I believe you as parent should go to jail if your kid killed somebody because you are essentially releasing a "dangerous weapon" to public.
 
Jiro, maybe you should wait and reconsider boot camp as a last resort until you have children of your own.

You'll be thinking differently and would understand how Liebling feels.
 
Jiro said:
then please kindly tell us what other options do you have left in your sleeve if all options have been exhausted? more compassion and love? sorry but "hoping" you can achieve it with more compassion and love by the time teen's 18 years old is not good enough. In fact - I believe you as parent should go to jail if your kid killed somebody because you are essentially releasing a "dangerous weapon" to public.
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People don't just kill because they feel like it. People kill because they are in pain. There is a source of pain there that needs to be addressed. Once the person addresses that pain, then they begin on a process of healing.

I don't see how it is the parent's fault for their kid killing someone. It is not just the parents, it's the killers entire surrounding atmosphere, a series of interactions, that led up to that point.

That's the thing is that I don't think compassion and love can be exhausted. Love is infinite by nature. And I would like to point out that I truly live by what I say. I have talked directly to some of my perpetrators. Through my compassion and love for them, they realized what they did. They realized why they hurt me, why they did such a thing, how they got caught in a cycle.

Sending people to boot camp doesn't help them realize the wrongs they have done. Boot camp is not a catalyst for self-examination and self-questioning. Compassion and love lead to those, and lead to an awareness that actually breaks the cycle.

That right there is my solution. I have employed it before and it has worked beautifully.
 
Mrs Bucket said:
Jiro, maybe you should wait and reconsider boot camp as a last resort until you have children of your own.

You'll be thinking differently and would understand how Liebling feels.
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I would be more concern about public because of possible harm my kid can do once he's 18 years old and out of my house. Like I said - I'm open to all available options. Mind you - there is "wilderness camp"... which is alternative to boot camp. Of course I would try that. If not.... like I said - if AAAAALLLLLLLL ALL ALL ALL options have been exhausted and there is NO improvement..... boot camp it is.

I don't know why you're having horrible image of "Boot Camp." Are you imaging it as a physically abusive camp and they will put you in solitary jail cell? a drill sergeant who abuses his position and authority? well mind you - not all boot camps are like that. In fact - it's illegal.

There are handful of boot camps that do not do what you had in your mind. It has positive reinforcement method - meaning.... it's not all about screaming the loudest and power-tripping. See videos below -

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0zT2npRPVws]YouTube - Unruly teens learn lessons at bootcamp[/ame]

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IjCluzj_0AA]YouTube - Bootcamp information for Parents and Teens[/ame]
 
Nika said:
People don't just kill because they feel like it. People kill because they are in pain. There is a source of pain there that needs to be addressed. Once the person addresses that pain, then they begin on a process of healing.

I don't see how it is the parent's fault for their kid killing someone. It is not just the parents, it's the killers entire surrounding atmosphere, a series of interactions, that led up to that point.

That's the thing is that I don't think compassion and love can be exhausted. Love is infinite by nature. And I would like to point out that I truly live by what I say. I have talked directly to some of my perpetrators. Through my compassion and love for them, they realized what they did. They realized why they hurt me, why they did such a thing, how they got caught in a cycle.

Sending people to boot camp doesn't help them realize the wrongs they have done. Boot camp is not a catalyst for self-examination and self-questioning. Compassion and love lead to those, and lead to an awareness that actually breaks the cycle.

That right there is my solution. I have employed it before and it has worked beautifully.
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that's great but unfortunately - you cannot tell me with surety that that method will work for all. So what of them? Sorry but it's not fair for public to be harmed by them.
 
Liebling:-))) said:
Oooohhhh it´s Boot Camp, I´m referring to, not Boot Army. Why do you jump on me when you know that it´s my error when I suggest Jiro to re-read your post 3 that Boot camp and Miltary boot camp are not same thing in my post No. 79. I confused with those words when I debated with Jiro. Boot camp for troubled teens should be correction, not Boot Army.
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I didn't "jump" on you; I asked "please" after you used that term more than once.

I did correct other posters, too.

I expected you to understand the difference even more since you work for the US military.
 
Jiro said:
that's great but unfortunately - you cannot tell me with surety that that method will work for all. So what of them? Sorry but it's not fair for public to be harmed by them.
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I agree it's not fair to the public to be harmed by them. But I don't think boot camp stops them from harming others.
 
Nika said:
I agree it's not fair to the public to be harmed by them. But I don't think boot camp stops them from harming others.
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I never said it won't stop them from harming others. Like I said - it's a last resort option and to NOT choose that option before your kid turns 18 is irresponsible.
 
Jiro said:
I used teen driving example because you used "some deaths from boot camp" as reason for not supporting boot camp. so I used "teen deaths from driving" in return. Capisce?

I have decided to not debate with you any further. You cannot even follow a simple argument. It's pointless and unnecessary waste of my time to debate with you. seems like you like to throw around "fallacious" word even though you did not use it properly. oh well it's been fun.

:wave:
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Nope, some ADers and I disagree with your posts here. You really have no idea what you are saying. You would say different when you are father of a child.

You assume quite a lot and also compare orange and apple quite a lot as well. It need to be stop and stick what we talk about Boot camp or military boot camp.

You know what? I agree everything what Nika wrote in many posts here.

It´s your problem, not mine. :wave:
 
Nika said:
Can someone please provide a general description of the visual context for me and other blind AD'ers? Thanks.
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It reinforced what I was trying to explain about boot camp for troubled teen. You and others have a preconceived notion that boot camp is physically-abusive and it's all about screaming and power-tripping. The videos shown above is the example of boot camp I was talking about - the positive reinforcement in a positive environment that fosters self-discipline, self-respect, and respect for authority.

what you speak of - abusive boot camp and such... believe me - I would NEVER send my troubled teen there. it's archaic and it's ineffective and it's destructive. The time changed and it is illegal for any boot camp instructors (aka drill sergeant) to physically abuse the kids for disciplinary purpose. Yes I understand it has happened somewhere but the fact is that it's illegal. period.
 
Mrs Bucket said:
Jiro, maybe you should wait and reconsider boot camp as a last resort until you have children of your own.

You'll be thinking differently and would understand how Liebling feels.
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:ty: for know my posts.

I can see the problem is Jiro and I interpret our posts in different way because I have mother feeling.
 
The fact that it is illegal doesn't stop it from happening, and so by sending my child to boot camp, I would still be making a conscious decision to expose my child to that kind of a situation.

I think that a loving compassionate atmosphere fosters a lot more respect and self-discipline than a boot camp situation, even if it's not abusive. I see a disciplining atmosphere as using fear as a means of control. However when you love another person, they learn to act well and they learn true respect from an internal source. It is just a fundamental difference of opinion between you and me on the very definitions of "respect" and "authority" and "self-discipline." I think that is where our main disagreement lies.

I don't think it is very effective arguing when our definitions of respect are different. It's impossible to hold an argument with someone when the fact bases and assumptions are different.
 
Reba said:
I didn't "jump" on you; I asked "please" after you used that term more than once.

I did correct other posters, too.
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If you want to correct my post then you should say... "May I correct your grammar or misspelling... It should be Boot Camp, not Boot Army" I would say...Ooohhh, it´s my error and thank you for correct my misspelling but you said "Can you please quit calling it "Boot Army". It make me feel that I am disrespect to make negative..., not correction...

I expected you to understand the difference even more since you work for the US military.
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Did I quote to disagree your post over the difference? Please show me where ? You should say this to Jiro, not me. I told Jiro to re´read your post no. 3 because I agree with your post over the difference between military boot camp and boot camp for troubled teens.
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Nika said:
The fact that it is illegal doesn't stop it from happening, and so by sending my child to boot camp, I would still be making a conscious decision to expose my child to that kind of a situation.

I think that a loving compassionate atmosphere fosters a lot more respect and self-discipline than a boot camp situation, even if it's not abusive. I see a disciplining atmosphere as using fear as a means of control. However when you love another person, they learn to act well and they learn true respect from an internal source. It is just a fundamental difference of opinion between you and me on the very definitions of "respect" and "authority" and "self-discipline." I think that is where our main disagreement lies.

I don't think it is very effective arguing when our definitions of respect are different. It's impossible to hold an argument with someone when the fact bases and assumptions are different.
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don't get me wrong. boot camp isn't the first place I'd send my troubled teen to. it isn't certainly the 2nd place I'd send either. but you still have not answered my question about if all options have been exhausted.
 
Nika, it´s not worth to debate with Jiro due his alot of assumption and fallicious comparion posts.
 
Jiro said:
don't get me wrong. boot camp isn't the first place I'd send my troubled teen to. it isn't certainly the 2nd place I'd send either. but you still have not answered my question about if all options have been exhausted.
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I understand that from your previous posts.

And I have answered that question. I think compassion and love is the last resort. Love is inexhaustible. Love is infinite.

I think you are expecting me to say "oh, well, as a last resort, then yes, okay, it's fine." But I am of the opinion that even as a last resort boot camp is not a solution. That is where I stand.
 
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