Boot Camp Experience and Discussions

[Jiro]

I support boot camp for trouble teens....I don't want to see teens go to a wrong path when she/he gets older. I would only if my son keep rebel and not listen, get in trouble etc...but that cost $$. Oh boy!

yes it costs money but hey... it's cheaper than rehabilitation, legal fees, doctors, etc... right?

 

[Jiro]

Interesting... yes, the boot camp and military boot camp are different while both do teach self discipline. It almost like military style but they teach about self respect, obedience, and behavior issues so it's different from actual military.

Like Mistyrose mentioned there is some boot camp that are more harsh and cruel punishment that was in the headlines few years back that a 14 years old boy died there. Some boot camps are good some are bad, it depends on where it is.

Some interesting information I found here: Boot Camps For Teens

both boot camp and military boot camp teach same thing - self-respect, self-discipline, and a respect to authority.

some boot camps are bad, many are good, and a few are very effective (usually for "very damaged troubled teens")

 

[shel90]

yes it costs money but hey... it's cheaper than rehabilitation, legal fees, doctors, etc... right?

Not really...my dad and stepmom spent almost $60K for my brother to go to boot camp in Oregon.

 

[Mrs Bucket]

I don't like to say this but there are some troubled teens who are better off dead because they are far far too damaged to be fix.

There are wonderful leaders that were quoted as above and love & compassion was used not boot camp. I really suspect the root cause of the problems these days are the lack of discipline and proper parenting.

Those teenagers are hardened by the environment around them, they are forced to adjust themselves so they will not get hurt over and over again. They are children in adults' bodies which is very unfair to them. They should be allowed to grow as children. The source of the blame is to the parents FIRST. Don't blame the children. Blame the parents.

Please do tell me what do you propose for that kind of troubled teens?

Again, it SHOULD be the parents that goes to boot camp! Shame on the parents that leaves their children unattended so they can go partying, drinking in front of their children, smoking pot, taking drugs in front of their children. Beating up their spouses in front of their children and totally forgetting the lasting impressions on the children's mind and oh yes, we mustn't forget the careless choices of leaving weapons behind in closets, under the bed so children can threaten to shoot their babysitters so parents can claim "I didn't know he could do that!!"

There's your answer... it has always been right in front of our faces, we've just conveniently chose to be blind, deaf and ignorant to it.

 

[Jiro]

Those teenagers are hardened by the environment around them, they are forced to adjust themselves so they will not get hurt over and over again. They are children in adults' bodies which is very unfair to them. They should be allowed to grow as children. The source of the blame is to the parents FIRST. Don't blame the children. Blame the parents.



Again, it SHOULD be the parents that goes to boot camp! Shame on the parents that leaves their children unattended so they can go partying, drinking in front of their children, smoking pot, taking drugs in front of their children. Beating up their spouses in front of their children and totally forgetting the lasting impressions on the children's mind and oh yes, we mustn't forget the careless choices of leaving weapons behind in closets, under the bed so children can threaten to shoot their babysitters so parents can claim "I didn't know he could do that!!"

There's your answer... it has always been right in front of our faces, we've just conveniently chose to be blind, deaf and ignorant to it.

it still doesn't answer my question about what to do with troubled teens. what are you supposed to do with damaged troubled teens when all options have been exhausted?

 

[Mrs Bucket]

it still doesn't answer my question about what to do with troubled teens. what are you supposed to do with damaged troubled teens when all options have been exhausted?

First of all, why do you call them "damaged" when they have not done the damage on themselves in the first place? You need to go to the source of the cause to find out why they are troubled.

For me, I would talk to them, communicate with them and not judge them at all. Everyone wants to be listened, heard, spoken to and loved. Everyone wants to be needed, felt in tune with and they want someone to touch them. Ask them "How are you?"

If they bark "Fark off!" Fine, start slowly. That's how you slowly chip away at the onion layer. You take an onion. With an onion, you cry when you cut it open right but if you put the onion in the freezer for 10 minutes, it won't cause you any crying.

With those troubled teens, they don't cry because they are frozen onions. You need to start slowly, peel the outer frozen onion layers with warmth, love and compassion. You bet one way or another, they will show their human side.. anger, hatred but it's something to start with. It's called communication.

Communication is anything from anger, pure raw unadulterated hatred as you can see what is really bothering that person and eventually you can see them start to chip away the frozen layer.

It bothers me when society is too quick to judge troubled teens as "damaged goods".

Those are our family too.

 

[Jiro]

First of all, why do you call them "damaged" when they have not done the damage on themselves in the first place? You need to go to the source of the cause to find out why they are troubled.

For me, I would talk to them, communicate with them and not judge them at all. Everyone wants to be listened, heard, spoken to and loved. Everyone wants to be needed, felt in tune with and they want someone to touch them. Ask them "How are you?"

If they bark "Fark off!" Fine, start slowly. That's how you slowly chip away at the onion layer. You take an onion. With an onion, you cry when you cut it open right but if you put the onion in the freezer for 10 minutes, it won't cause you any crying.

With those troubled teens, they don't cry because they are frozen onions. You need to start slowly, peel the outer frozen onion layers with warmth, love and compassion. You bet one way or another, they will show their human side.. anger, hatred but it's something to start with. It's called communication.

Communication is anything from anger, pure raw unadulterated hatred as you can see what is really bothering that person and eventually you can see them start to chip away the frozen layer.

It bothers me when society is too quick to judge troubled teens as "damaged goods".

Those are our family too.

So you're saying ALL troubled teens can be fixed? Like I said - what you said above is already been exhausted. All options have been exhausted. The last resort is boot camp. if boot camp doesn't work.... well - that's a damaged product beyond all repair. Hate to say but it happens. Nothing we can do about it.

 

[Mrs Bucket]

So you're saying ALL troubled teens can be fixed? Like I said - what you said above is already been exhausted. All options have been exhausted. The last resort is boot camp. if boot camp doesn't work.... well - that's a damaged product beyond all repair. Hate to say but it happens. Nothing we can do about it.

This is your perspective and I can respect it.

I'd like to use your perspective & attitude and use this situation to apply to an attitude the general society had towards the DeafBlind back then.

They would shun the DeafBlind and think there was nothing they could do about it.

Helen Keller went a lot of ways with her path. She fought for her rights. She was an activist long before the terminology became known. Women's Suffrage, Civil Rights and Disabled Rights became of Helen Keller. Did she do them all herself? No. It's a chain reaction.

Look at the general DeafBlind community right now. We are independent and we live independently ourselves. We're proud of who we are and what challenges we've gone through as they shaped ourselves for who we are.

Take your attitude and perspective, you would be disabling us rather than enabling us but that's okay because it is your attitude and perspective.

The general DeafBlind community would shun YOU because you would have to deal with your attitude and perspective.

Now take your attitude and perspective and apply that to the troubled teens and ask yourself why they are constantly troubled? Is it because you are disabling them with your attitude and perspective rather than enabling them with compassion and love towards healing??

Try to think outside than inside of the box and you'll get a much clearer picture.

 

[Jiro]

This is your perspective and I can respect it.

I'd like to use your perspective & attitude and use this situation to apply to an attitude the general society had towards the DeafBlind back then.

They would shun the DeafBlind and think there was nothing they could do about it.

Helen Keller went a lot of ways with her path. She fought for her rights. She was an activist long before the terminology became known. Women's Suffrage, Civil Rights and Disabled Rights became of Helen Keller. Did she do them all herself? No. It's a chain reaction.

Look at the general DeafBlind community right now. We are independent and we live independently ourselves. We're proud of who we are and what challenges we've gone through as they shaped ourselves for who we are.

Take your attitude and perspective, you would be disabling us rather than enabling us but that's okay because it is your attitude and perspective.

The general DeafBlind community would shun YOU because you would have to deal with your attitude and perspective.

Now take your attitude and perspective and apply that to the troubled teens and ask yourself why they are constantly troubled? Is it because you are disabling them with your attitude and perspective rather than enabling them with compassion and love towards healing??

Try to think outside than inside of the box and you'll get a much clearer picture.

major difference is - the troubled teens have been treated with every possible ways to help them. All options have been exhausted and failed especially for some troubled teens (not all). deafblind people are not destructive or harmful to public. troubled teens are. so what's next? You still have not answered my question.

I ask again - despite of ALL therapies, sessions with professionals, etc for years... what do you propose next with the troubled teens? Don't you think they have done compassion and love? That is no longer an option when troubled teens continue to be troubled. Like I said - boot camp option is the LAST LAST LAST resort.

 

[Foxrac]

love and compassion got nowhere. Think about how family members and counselors have tried with love & compassion. It got nowhere so Boot Camp is the last resort. Most troubled teens have one same problem - lack of respect to authority and rules. It's the first step to tackling the problems.

Agree with you

Bootcamp is part of American culture.

 

[Jiro]

I want to add one more thing - I'm not sure why you're complaining about Boot Camp. Are you getting a preconceived notion that DS (Drill Sergeant) are abusive? If you ask me - boot camp is a hell lot better option than juvenile prison. Mind you - DS are NOT allowed to physically-abuse them and they are not allowed to confine them in inhumane conditions such as stripped naked in isolated concrete room.

You know why troubled teens can say fark off, cause trouble, etc? because they know they will not get a repercussion. At boot camp - you will pay for your action. you will learn about responsibility and rules. Tell me that is better than juvenile prison.

 

[Mrs Bucket]

major difference is - the troubled teens have been treated with every possible ways to help them. All options have been exhausted and failed especially for some troubled teens (not all). What's next? You still have not answered my question.

I ask again - despite of ALL therapies, sessions with professionals, etc for years... what do you propose next with the troubled teens? Don't you think they have done compassion and love? That is no longer an option when troubled teens continue to be troubled. Like I said - boot camp option is the LAST LAST LAST resort.

If boot camp has to be the very last resort, I would fear for the general public when those troubled teens are finished with boot camp. Take Jeffrey Dahmer, his father sent him to boot camp. Boot camp sent him off to the other end and a murder spree.

His father sent him to a boot camp, and he appeared to recover some vitality, but shortly after he began the murder spree that led to his arrest.

source


Timothy McVeigh went to boot camp and he was a troubled teen. He went off the worse end and blew up the OKC building.

McVeigh went through boot camp at Fort Benning, Georgia, where he met two men who would become integral parts of his future—Terry Nichols and Michael Fortier. Nichols and McVeigh became close friends during boot camp despite the difference in their ages. (Nichols, thirtythree, was the oldest recruit in the company.)

source


You see why I am quite hesitant about using boot camp as a very last last last resort.

There was a TV program last year where only young children had to operate a small town all on their own. They were dropped off in a deserted town and they had to fend for themselves using their intelligence and manual labour. Kid Nation is what I believe can replace boot camp.

 

[Nika]

sorry but no. it's other way around. you are confusing typical Boot Camp with something else. I don't know what happened to you but just because you had bad experience with one boot camp doesn't mean all boot camps are abusive. Not all Boot Camps do produce result. They have kicked out "troubled teen beyond repair." I don't like to say this but there are some troubled teens who are better off dead because they are far far too damaged to be fix.

Do you not understand that Boot Camp is usually the last resort? Do you not understand that troubled teens are the one with repeated criminal records, drug addictions, and have gone thru many therapists/psychologists/professionals for years? Nothing works. They all have one same symptom - they do not respect the authority. You ask me what authority. First - their parents. Second - the law. Third - the professionals (teachers, therapists, etc.)

Please do tell me what do you propose for that kind of troubled teens?

I do understand what troubled teens are. I do understand the meaning of last resort. And I am not just basing it on my experiences. I have read stories and talked to other people whose parents sent them to boot camps. I still stand by my opinion. I'm happy to agree to disagree with you though. We obviously have different perspectives on what troubled teens need. I understand why they don't respect authority--because authority doesn't respect them. I see it as a chronic issue in our society, that because of biological age, respect is constantly demanded one way--from junior to senior--and constantly not given the other way--from senior to junior. For some of us this pattern just does not work. And so I think that enforcing this pattern to the fullest, in the form of boot camp, doesn't work.

I don't think anyone is so troubled that they are better off dead. And as I have mentioned before, this is what I propose for troubled teens as a last resort. Undying love and compassion. I stand by my motto (as you see in my signature) that love is healing, and healing is love.

I propose body work, energy work, therapy, and a change of lifestyle. Yes, they have probably gone to lots of therapy, but keep in mind a lot of health professionals are not ideal for a given patient. So I am talking about an ideal therapist. I have seen these things work wonders with my own two eyes. Unfortunately many people deny the effects of body work or don't believe it to be effective beyond the effects of a massage, but I have read stories and I have seen firsthand people coming out of comas, people overcoming years of PTSD in just a few short sessions, etc.

But again I am happy to disagree with you. Obviously neither of us will be convinced by the other so it's probably just best to leave it at agreement to disagree.

 

[Mrs Bucket]

I want to add one more thing - I'm not sure why you're complaining about Boot Camp. Are you getting a preconceived notion that DS (Drill Sergeant) are abusive? If you ask me - boot camp is a hell lot better option than juvenile prison. Mind you - DS are NOT allowed to physically-abuse them and they are not allowed to confine them in inhumane conditions such as stripped naked in isolated concrete room.

You know why troubled teens can say fark off, cause trouble, etc? because they know they will not get a repercussion. At boot camp - you will pay for your action. you will learn about responsibility and rules. Tell me that is better than juvenile prison.

Why do you assume I am complaining when I'm merely debating? I enjoy debating. Ask hubby!

DS are not allowed to physically abuse or confine people?

You need to do research and open up your eyes.

To discourage physical abuse, which was once tolerated though never sanctioned, drill sergeants are forbidden to so much as touch recalcitrant recruits in an effort to get them to perform. "Stress created by physical or verbal abuse is non-productive and prohibited," says the Army's training manual. "Drill sergeants used to be able to discipline soldiers on the spot when they misbehaved," McQueen says. "But now you can't even touch them to check their ammunition."

source


They used to.

Please point out where did I say boot camp was abusive? That's something new to me, putting words in my mouth.

 

[Jiro]

Why do you assume I am complaining when I'm merely debating? I enjoy debating. Ask hubby!

DS are not allowed to physically abuse or confine people?

You need to do research and open up your eyes.

source


They used to.

you just proved my point.

Please point out where did I say boot camp was abusive? That's something new to me, putting words in my mouth.

that was not directly to you. It's a preconceived notion.

 

[Nika]

I want to add one more thing - I'm not sure why you're complaining about Boot Camp. Are you getting a preconceived notion that DS (Drill Sergeant) are abusive? If you ask me - boot camp is a hell lot better option than juvenile prison. Mind you - DS are NOT allowed to physically-abuse them and they are not allowed to confine them in inhumane conditions such as stripped naked in isolated concrete room.

You know why troubled teens can say fark off, cause trouble, etc? because they know they will not get a repercussion. At boot camp - you will pay for your action. you will learn about responsibility and rules. Tell me that is better than juvenile prison.

DS are not allowed to physically abuse them? But they do. In fact I have several friends that were raped in boot camp situations, male and female. Tell me that is not abuse. The rules may officially say abuse is not allowed, but it happens anyway, which is why I find boot camp situations to be abusive. I also find the way DS yell to be verbally abusive.

And I can assure you that none of my friends came out of boot camp a better person. In fact most of them just had more anger towards society, and most of my boot camp friends are no longer communicating with their parents because they feel the fact their parents put them in that situation is unforgivable. As for their respect for authority--it has only decreased. My boot camp friends have learned that "authority and respect" justifies abuse. That under the name of "authority and abuse," things like rape and physical abuse happen.

So that is why I don't think boot camp is a solution for troubled teens. If anything, it only makes them more troubled.

 

[Mrs Bucket]

you just proved my point.


that was not directly to you. It's a preconceived notion.

You proved your own point yes that you do make assumptions.

Pot meet kettle.

Kettle meet pot.

 

[Nika]

I don't see how "boot camp is abusive" is a preconceived notion if I have friends and have personally experienced abuse in boot camp situations. This is based on my life and the lives of people I know, not some T.V. show or magazine article.

 

[Jiro]

I don't see how "boot camp is abusive" is a preconceived notion if I have friends and have personally experienced abuse in boot camp situations. This is based on my life and the lives of people I know, not some T.V. show or magazine article.

and what about priests raping choir boys? teachers raping students? fathers molesting kids? it happens.

 

[Jiro]

DS are not allowed to physically abuse them? But they do. In fact I have several friends that were raped in boot camp situations, male and female. Tell me that is not abuse. The rules may officially say abuse is not allowed, but it happens anyway, which is why I find boot camp situations to be abusive. I also find the way DS yell to be verbally abusive.

And I can assure you that none of my friends came out of boot camp a better person. In fact most of them just had more anger towards society, and most of my boot camp friends are no longer communicating with their parents because they feel the fact their parents put them in that situation is unforgivable. As for their respect for authority--it has only decreased. My boot camp friends have learned that "authority and respect" justifies abuse. That under the name of "authority and abuse," things like rape and physical abuse happen.

So that is why I don't think boot camp is a solution for troubled teens. If anything, it only makes them more troubled.

i'm sorry but you're confusing disciplinary abuse with criminal abuse. Please leave the criminal activity out. See above about examples of abuses. perhaps your boot camp is ineffective. There are other troubled teens who have been successfully rehabilitated after boot camps.

again - boot camp is not a solution for all.