Best way to develop oral skills?

[shel90]

Sometimes I get the feeling that some deaf people feel that the society should cater to them. We even have laws for this. We have the right to have an interpreter or any other services for almost everything.

This is a nice thought but sometimes I think it's naive. For the minority, the real world simply sucks.

Supporting oral skills isn't a pretty thing to do. If you support them and there are many deaf people who just can't develop them well enough to communicate with any hearing person comfortably, they just feel like they have failed. How do you support oral skills while saying that you don't technically need them?

I went to see a lawyer today. If it wasn't for the terp, I would have misunderstood him on several occasions so my oral skills didn't benefit me. I spoke for myself and he was able to understand me but if I didn't know ASL or if there weren any laws for rights to a terp, I would be shit out of luck trying to understand him and as a result, my time and his time would have been wasted by me asking him to repeat himself numerous times. That's why I beleieve all deaf children should have the opportunity to learn ASL cuz they won't have to struggle to understand hearing people in critical situations like these. That's the whole point.

In the educational setting where learning is critical, I don't think having oral skills will put deaf children on equal footing as their hearing counterparts. By having ASL and having the instruction carried out in ASL or having an ASL terp, the child recieces equal access which they r entitled to have rights to.

 

[deafskeptic]

I went to see a lawyer today. If it wasn't for the terp, I would have misunderstood him on several occasions so my oral skills didn't benefit me. I spoke for myself and he was able to understand me but if I didn't know ASL or if there weren any laws for rights to a terp, I would be shit out of luck trying to understand him and as a result, my time and his time would have been wasted by me asking him to repeat himself numerous times. That's why I beleieve all deaf children should have the opportunity to learn ASL cuz they won't have to struggle to understand hearing people in critical situations like these. That's the whole point.

In the educational setting where learning is critical, I don't think having oral skills will put deaf children on equal footing as their hearing counterparts. By having ASL and having the instruction carried out in ASL or having an ASL terp, the child recieces equal access which they r entitled to have rights to.

 

[deafdyke]

I don't think having oral skills will put deaf children on equal footing as their hearing counterparts. By having ASL and having the instruction carried out in ASL or having an ASL terp, the child recieces equal access which they r entitled to have rights to.

Exactly! Even someone with a unilateral loss can miss something. Oral skills are a good thing......but they don't give perfect access to the hearing world. Hell, even a lot of rabid AG Bad folks are always saying that they don't 100% feel a part of the hearing world.

 

[Daredevel7]

I went to see a lawyer today. If it wasn't for the terp, I would have misunderstood him on several occasions so my oral skills didn't benefit me. I spoke for myself and he was able to understand me but if I didn't know ASL or if there weren any laws for rights to a terp, I would be shit out of luck trying to understand him and as a result, my time and his time would have been wasted by me asking him to repeat himself numerous times. That's why I beleieve all deaf children should have the opportunity to learn ASL cuz they won't have to struggle to understand hearing people in critical situations like these. That's the whole point.

Yes, if it wasn't for the 'terp.

Correct me if I'm wrong but sometimes people have a hard time finding a terp in a pinch. (I've seen it in several threads already)

This is where the real world comes in.

Again, I am not against ASL. I am against people being so antagonistic towards anything that starts with oral (except for sex). Because someone refuses to teach you ASL does not mean you have to blame it on the teaching of oral skills.

 

[shel90]

Yes, if it wasn't for the 'terp.

Correct me if I'm wrong but sometimes people have a hard time finding a terp in a pinch. (I've seen it in several threads already)

This is where the real world comes in.

Again, I am not against ASL. I am against people being so antagonistic towards anything that starts with oral (except for sex). Because someone refuses to teach you ASL does not mean you have to blame it on the teaching of oral skills.

It seems u are fiercly protective of oral deaf education.

If u see what I see with children who come to my program with language delays or socio-emotional issues because they were in an environment that was so restrictive, maybe it would be different. Maybe not.

This is why I feel about oral-only deaf ed. Not gonna apologize for how I feel.

 

[Babyblue]

Even if a deaf person has excellent oral skills.. Meaning they can speak well. It does not make a deaf person to be able to hear.. That is why ASL to me is very important to be a language that they should know.

I was raised orally.. I have excellent speech skills. But it does not help me to understand what each person is saying.

by saying that.. I mean oral skills does not teach us to "Hear" We still depend on ASL, to have full access to language.

 

[deafskeptic]

Even if a deaf person has excellent oral skills.. Meaning they can speak well. It does not make a deaf person to be able to hear.. That is why ASL to me is very important to be a language that they should know.

I was raised orally.. I have excellent speech skills. But it does not help me to understand what each person is saying.

by saying that.. I mean oral skills does not teach us to "Hear" We still depend on ASL, to have full access to language.

Exactly. I sound like a hearing person but I still don't understand what others say to me some of the time. Oralists seem to be more interested in our speech than if we can understand others around us.

 

[naisho]

Even if a deaf person has excellent oral skills.. Meaning they can speak well. It does not make a deaf person to be able to hear.. That is why ASL to me is very important to be a language that they should know.

I was raised orally.. I have excellent speech skills. But it does not help me to understand what each person is saying.

by saying that.. I mean oral skills does not teach us to "Hear" We still depend on ASL, to have full access to language.

Yes, but there's one part you're missing. This is what we were discussing around posts #80-#130~#150 or so, getting into the root of it all.

This is where it comes to the part that a native who "acquired English" (orally) has the ability to be more "creative"; proper uses of tenses and particularization (or whatever the technical definition of the linguistics behind this), able to have an influential cognitive thinking process to play around with words. Of course there are exceptions; as you can tell in some American hearing people who have very poor use of grammar while english was their only language.

I mean it doesn't really benefit a profound deaf person per se quite obviously, it's meant to cater to the hearing world. But as we discussed, this is how the proficient at language can observe whether or not someone is a "native" or a "learner".

It's distinguishing between deafs at best. Or you could say, this concept applies exactly to the hearing as well. (I noted some examples about chinese-americans wayy earlier to explain this)

 

[Babyblue]

Exactly. I sound like a hearing person but I still don't understand what others say to me some of the time. Oralists seem to be more interested in our speech than if we can understand others around us.

Exactly! If the expectation is too high... by teaching us to speak and wanting us to "hear" It is setting the child up for failure.

ASL is the foundation for a deaf child, not Speech.

 

[faire_jour]

No wonder I was confused since faire_jour's focus is oral-only which is different from oracy.

:roll: I have never ever said I was going to stop signing with my daughter.

 

[Daredevel7]

It seems u are fiercly protective of oral deaf education.

If u see what I see with children who come to my program with language delays or socio-emotional issues because they were in an environment that was so restrictive, maybe it would be different. Maybe not.

This is why I feel about oral-only deaf ed. Not gonna apologize for how I feel.

Frankly, I don't care about oral deaf education. I've only seen one oral deaf school and it was a MESS. It may not be like that for others, but that is not my concern. My concerns are the following:

If there are as many oral failures as you say, don't you think parents of oral failures tend to give up on oral skills once they learn ASL because they think "Oh they couldn't do it, so ASL is their only choice." If they didn't understand the L1 foundation thing, chances are they won't even bother to continue developing oral skills.

Another concern I have is a trend that I am seeing with deaf people who enter the real world after graduating school.... it seems like they feel like they should get a CI or are frustrated with getting jobs (although a large part of that is due to economy). Hence...

That's where the real world comes in.

 

[faire_jour]

Even if a deaf person has excellent oral skills.. Meaning they can speak well. It does not make a deaf person to be able to hear.. That is why ASL to me is very important to be a language that they should know.

I was raised orally.. I have excellent speech skills. But it does not help me to understand what each person is saying.

by saying that.. I mean oral skills does not teach us to "Hear" We still depend on ASL, to have full access to language.

And this is the point of AV therapy. The kids are taught to hear, not just to speak.

 

[loml]

We still depend on ASL, to have full access to language.

ASL gives you access to ASL. Cueing gives you access to English.

 

[Babyblue]

And this is the point of AV therapy. The kids are taught to hear, not just to speak.

Sad to say this, but a CI does not perfect her hearing.

Just saying that the expectation is too high for them to be able to hear like a normal person... That will set her up for failure. I am not against you to teach her to talk.

As a Small child. and as she is growing up. Many will expect her to hear like a normal hearing person. It will create a false sense of others, to think that she can hear normally.

And she will become frustrated thinking that is what she is suppose to do. Hear like a normal person. When in fact she is deaf.

I have no qualms with teaching her to speak. I just have qualms with people expecting her to hear like a normal person, when in fact she can not and will not.

 

[jillio]

Frankly, I don't care about oral deaf education. I've only seen one oral deaf school and it was a MESS. It may not be like that for others, but that is not my concern. My concerns are the following:

If there are as many oral failures as you say, don't you think parents of oral failures tend to give up on oral skills once they learn ASL because they think "Oh they couldn't do it, so ASL is their only choice." If they didn't understand the L1 foundation thing, chances are they won't even bother to continue developing oral skills.

Another concern I have is a trend that I am seeing with deaf people who enter the real world after graduating school.... it seems like they feel like they should get a CI or are frustrated with getting jobs (although a large part of that is due to economy). Hence...

That's where the real world comes in.

I hate to tell you, but being able to speak is not going to prevent discrimination in the job market.

 

[faire_jour]

Sad to say this, but a CI does not perfect her hearing.

Just saying that the expectation is too high for them to be able to hear like a normal person... That will set her up for failure. I am not against you to teach her to talk.

As a Small child. and as she is growing up. Many will expect her to hear like a normal hearing person. It will create a false sense of others, to think that she can hear normally.

And she will become frustrated thinking that is what she is suppose to do. Hear like a normal person. When in fact she is deaf.

I have no qualms with teaching her to speak. I just have qualms with people expecting her to hear like a normal person, when in fact she can not and will not.

First of all, she is a normal person, her ability to hear or not has nothing to do with it.

Second, I would never put her in a situation (educationally, because I can't control her socialization when she gets older) where people "assume she hears like a hearing person". That would be counterproductive. But, I will make sure she is involved with professionals who do know how well she can hear, and will help her make use it to the best of her ability.

 

[jillio]

Sad to say this, but a CI does not perfect her hearing.

Just saying that the expectation is too high for them to be able to hear like a normal person... That will set her up for failure. I am not against you to teach her to talk.

As a Small child. and as she is growing up. Many will expect her to hear like a normal hearing person. It will create a false sense of others, to think that she can hear normally.

And she will become frustrated thinking that is what she is suppose to do. Hear like a normal person. When in fact she is deaf.

I have no qualms with teaching her to speak. I just have qualms with people expecting her to hear like a normal person, when in fact she can not and will not.

Exactly. A child with an HA or a child with a CI is still functionally HOH at best. So anything they are "taught to hear" is still deficient. They will still miss things, particularly in the classroom, since that is the topic of discussion.

 

[Babyblue]

I hate to tell you, but being able to speak is not going to prevent discrimination in the job market.

And that was my point. Being able to speak like a hearing person does not enable them to hear like one.

 

[Babyblue]

Exactly. A child with an HA or a child with a CI is still functionally HOH at best. So anything they are "taught to hear" is still deficient. They will still miss things, particularly in the classroom, since that is the topic of discussion.

same as I posted above.

 

[jillio]

same as I posted above.

Yep, was just re-phrasing for emphasis.