AZ Congresswoman...12 others, shot

Steinhauer said:
So let me get this straight. You are admitting that he was off his rocker, and its all Palin's fault?

Are sane people responsible for the actions of the insane?
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No to both questions. :roll:
 
Beowulf said:
Isn't having delusions a form of being brainwashed? :dunno:
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Delusions can result from brainwashing but brainwashing isn't necessary for people to have delusions. People can be delusional from mental illnesses that have nothing to do with brainwashing.

Interesting that you bring it up as a topic. I took a course in college called "Brainwashing and Propaganda" as part of my political science major. :)

By the way, I found this in Rense: "Inception" and the Arizona Shooter
I'm not saying I believe it, but it sounds possible. All we have at this point are theories, right?
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Like I told matajan, movies aren't real life. :)
 
Reba said:
It's limited for a reason.

Jurors are supposed to base their decisions on the facts presented at trial.

There's a good chance that a juror with extensive mental health background probably won't make the cut.
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I wasn't referring to the information directly related to the trial. I was talking about jurors having a well rounded and diverse knowledge of social interactions and how mental illness affects the capacity of the individual to make rational decisions. Additionally, knowledge regarding how mental illness makes the individual more susceptible to certain types of communications.
 
Beowulf said:
Isn't having delusions a form of being brainwashed? :dunno:

By the way, I found this in Rense: "Inception" and the Arizona Shooter
I'm not saying I believe it, but it sounds possible. All we have at this point are theories, right?
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Yes and no. I see where you are going with this, and I would say "Yes, to the extent that the delusional person fully believes their delusions are reality in the same way that a brainwashed person fully believes that their perceptions based on the brainwashing are reality." But with brainwashing, the information is put into the mind of another for a specific purpose and goal. Delusions begin from inside the individual and are generally the result of a mental illness that has a biochemical connection. However, when an individual is delusional, it is difficult to say what might set them off, as they react to things based on their delusional reality. So, Palins' words don't seem like such a big deal to some, but in the mind of the delusional individual, they become more literal and important. And since we all know that there are delusional individual's out there, people like Palin who choose to place themselves in the public arena, need to be responsible enough to consider that when they choose to use inflamatory language.
 
jillio said:
I wasn't referring to the information directly related to the trial.
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I know. I wasn't either.

I was talking about jurors having a well rounded and diverse knowledge of social interactions and how mental illness affects the capacity of the individual to make rational decisions. Additionally, knowledge regarding how mental illness makes the individual more susceptible to certain types of communications.
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Since jurors are picked randomly from all walks of life, it's up to the expert witnesses to explain those things about mental illness, as though none of the jurors knew anything about mental illness.
 
jillio said:
... So, Palins' words don't seem like such a big deal to some, but in the mind of the delusional individual, they become more literal and important.
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Provided they've even heard or read Palin's words.

And since we all know that there are delusional individual's out there, people like Palin who choose to place themselves in the public arena, need to be responsible enough to consider that when they choose to use inflamatory language.
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Who knows what language is considered inflammatory to a delusional individual? There's no way anyone can know what will set off a delusional person.

Why even mention Palin? Has there been any credible reports of Loughner being set off by anything she said?
 
Reba said:
I know. I wasn't either.


Since jurors are picked randomly from all walks of life, it's up to the expert witnesses to explain those things about mental illness, as though none of the jurors knew anything about mental illness.
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Yet you say that jurors are to only have limited information for a reason? I don't get your train of thought here. Are you suggesting that one should only be selected for a jury if one is ill informed?

Your second sentence is referring to information given during trial. I am talking about jurors walking into the courtroom with knowledge of these interactions and how they affect the individual.
 
Reba said:
Provided they've even heard or read Palin's words.

Well, that one is pretty much a given.
Who knows what language is considered inflammatory to a delusional individual? There's no way anyone can know what will set off a delusional person.

The same language that could be considered inflammatory by a non-delusional person. It is not always just about the nature of the language, but the greater susceptibility to take that language in a very literal sense and to act on it. "Cross hairs" might be a metaphor to you. But it is a metaphor that a delusional individual will most likely take literally. And not just the delusional person. There are many who aren't delusional that interpret such things in a literal sense.

Why even mention Palin? Has there been any credible reports of Loughner being set off by anything she said?
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Evidently, she thought so, since she managed to get a t.v. spot devoted to playing the victim.
 
I know it's so late for me to post something especially about a news that is over a week old, but since I am a new poster here at AD. I want to send out all my condolences to the families & friends of fallen victims as well as those injured in a terrible tragedy that resulted in 6 deaths.

As a fellow American, I just can't understand why it happened. Sure, this event left me angry. Could it have been preventable? I don't know. You just can't go anywhere and shoot congresspeople in the heads just because the government is screwing up with your life. That isn't the way to go. You can't even fight for what you believe if you're behind bars for the actions like Jared Loughner did. Just my 2 cents.

P.S. -- There are always ways that people can do to help change America without shooting out people's heads. I am aware that there were another factors in the 1/8 event. There are too many misses in Jared's recent life that could have been prevented.
 
I am not 100% up to date on the Arizona shooting, (so correct me if Im wrong) but... I thought Loughner invoked the 5th Amendment? He just hasn't said ANYTHING since the shooting. So weren't all of the "reasons" why he did it actually theories based on stuff he posted on the internet, etc? The stuff that he posted on the internet actually has nothing to do with the congresswoman, just the government in general. The ONLY thing I see that had anything to do with the congresswoman was that she didn't answer a question sufficiently that he asked her years ago. Maybe he simply thought she was a b$%#?

I think it's odd that people look for somewhat rational reasons for why a man goes up to a woman and shoots her point blank in front of everyone, then proceeds to shoot at everyone else. Why would an irrational action = rational reasoning?
 
Daredevel7 said:
I am not 100% up to date on the Arizona shooting, (so correct me if Im wrong) but... I thought Loughner invoked the 5th Amendment? He just hasn't said ANYTHING since the shooting. So weren't all of the "reasons" why he did it actually theories based on stuff he posted on the internet, etc? The stuff that he posted on the internet actually has nothing to do with the congresswoman, just the government in general. The ONLY thing I see that had anything to do with the congresswoman was that she didn't answer a question sufficiently that he asked her years ago. Maybe he simply thought she was a b$%#?

I think it's odd that people look for somewhat rational reasons for why a man goes up to a woman and shoots her point blank in front of everyone, then proceeds to shoot at everyone else. Why would an irrational action = rational reasoning?
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Yeah, his YouTube videos were quite bizarre; mostly complaints about government. I think anyone that kills is temporarily insane. He was clearly not "right" long before he stepped up and blasted away.
 
Daredevel7 said:
I am not 100% up to date on the Arizona shooting, (so correct me if Im wrong) but... I thought Loughner invoked the 5th Amendment? He just hasn't said ANYTHING since the shooting. So weren't all of the "reasons" why he did it actually theories based on stuff he posted on the internet, etc? The stuff that he posted on the internet actually has nothing to do with the congresswoman, just the government in general. The ONLY thing I see that had anything to do with the congresswoman was that she didn't answer a question sufficiently that he asked her years ago. Maybe he simply thought she was a b$%#?

I think it's odd that people look for somewhat rational reasons for why a man goes up to a woman and shoots her point blank in front of everyone, then proceeds to shoot at everyone else. Why would an irrational action = rational reasoning?
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You are correct about the 5th. And yes, it is strange how people attempt to find rational reasons for what is obviously irrational behavior.
 
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