Audism

[GrendelQ]

Nevermind.

It worked here as well though , don't you think?

 

[AlleyCat]

I believe that you want the warm, fuzzy, happy thread. Down the hallway to the left. Don't drop into Jiro's gun thread if you think that this is out of hand.

The virtual hallway ??

I can just picture doorways with thread titles on them. Some may knock and enter politely. Others will barge right in and say god-knows-what !!

 

[sallylou]

No kidding! There will be some slamming of doors, too.

 

[posts from hell]

again.. the goal is to what? discuss audism or obfuscate a certain Deaf poster then stretch it all out, spread it all over the place to avoid the finger point?

 

[sallylou]

You're spoiling my fun, Mr. Frequently Off-topic.

 

[posts from hell]

You're spoiling my fun, Mr. Frequently Off-topic.

Sorry, not addressed towards you.

 

[posts from hell]

And your goal here is to?

YouTube - rebirth

27 seconds and to the point, again.

40+ posts later finally it gets down to what it is. You could have said that back then and there would have been no issues.

KISS, anyone?

again.. the goal is to what? discuss audism or obfuscate a certain Deaf poster then stretch it all out, spread it all over the place to avoid the finger point?

all of the above has gone unanswered.

I see the goal now, plainly and clearly. I plan to make a video reply to a certain post as well.

Grendel - As much you bring good to this forum, I am going to have to call you out now. I will clearly explain my reasons in the video. I'm tired.

 

[GrendelQ]

PFH. Don't like it when I respond to others, but need me to snap to your questions? I have answered this, and I thought we came to agree on DD7's nice and tidy, yet all-encompassing acceptance of our positions. But I see now that was the only one who agreed.

My goal: To broaden the definition beyond what was initially defined in answer to the OP. And I gave specific examples of situations that wouldn't be considered audism under what I saw as a limited definition, but which - to me -- clearly are cases of audism.

The concept of audism as I see it aligns with the definitions below. I think this is far broader and affects more deaf people as individuals rather than Deaf as an institution than what some have defined as a Hearing world (or deaf) seeing Deafness as a rejection of Hearing Culture. And I agree with Beclak and others that this is also how audism can manifest, but there's much more that doesn't fall into this cultural model. I disagree with them in that I don't think that the concept of accepting Deaf Culture is a panacea or obviates audism.

In case this link was missed in an earlier post: from Audism: Exploring the Metaphysics of Oppression (Bauman, Journal of Deaf Studies and Deaf Education, 2004)

3 proposed definitions of Audism:

1. The notion that one is superior based on one’s ability to hear or behave in the manner of one who hears.
2. A system of advantage based on hearing ability.
3. A metaphysical orientation that links human identity with speech.

"The first is the initial seed planted by Tom Humphries (1975). The second is adapted from Wellman’s (1993) definition of racism and is mindful of Lane’s (1992) discussion of institutionalized audism. The third definition was presented at the Deaf Studies VI conference by Bahan and Bauman (2000)."

 

[StSapphire]

So, you support taking things out of context in order to change the contextual meaning?

Having read the entire linked article/interview, I honestly don't find GrendelQ's quote all that misleading at all. It just seems to be a simple statement that "doing everything one specific way will not work for everyone all the time." Which, really, is common sense, both in deaf education and education for all people. I'm not really seeing where the controversy over this quote is.

 

[sallylou]

I don't think that the concept of accepting Deaf Culture is a panacea or obviates audism.

One more important question: How will you accept it if your daughter chooses to live almost entirely in Deaf culture? (socially, professionally, spouse, church, etc.)

 

[Beowulf]

One more important question: How will you accept it if your daughter chooses to live almost entirely in Deaf culture? (socially, professionally, spouse, church, etc.)

Hasten hence to a Deaf nunnery. :P

 

[Daredevel7]

Having read the entire linked article/interview, I honestly don't find GrendelQ's quote all that misleading at all. It just seems to be a simple statement that "doing everything one specific way will not work for everyone all the time." Which, really, is common sense, both in deaf education and education for all people. I'm not really seeing where the controversy over this quote is.

Ditto.

Or more so, there seems to be a controversy over the act of POSTING this quote in her signature. I am not sure how people want Grendel post it differently?

I understand the argument of interpreting the quote differently, but.... people keep saying that she shouldn't post a quote out of context. Grendel DID post a link to the quote, so... I am not sure what's the issue here? Should quotes not be posted? ALL quotes are stated WITHOUT context. Quotes are simple 1-3 sentences. It's mind boggling.

In fact, I shouldn't even be quoting StSapphire in this post, I may be taking his posts out of context!

 

[naisho]

Sounds like it's just people seeing what Marsharck says differently. Kid reads a book on fruits and sees an apple. Kid 2 reads same book and sees an orange. Kid 3 sees a banana mango smoothie. I ain't gonna quote a nobody in this post so it can't be taken out of context.

 

[Bottesini]

Sounds like it's just people seeing what Marsharck says differently. Kid reads a book on fruits and sees an apple. Kid 2 reads same book and sees an orange. Kid 3 sees a banana mango smoothie. I ain't gonna quote a nobody in this post so it can't be taken out of context.

Kid 3 is the creative one.

 

[Mountain Man]

Marschark : The evidence has convinced me, more than ever, that there is never going to be a "one size fits all" solution for deaf children either educationally or in language. That's why I think Hands & Voices is so important: it emphasizes to parents that deaf children have to be seen as individuals, and we have to do what works . I would love to see a day when all deaf children are bilingual.

Marschark also got some interesting flaws and limits. Some of his accusations are questionable, and a lot of his works are based on hearing scholars with limited knowledge on deafness. Mind you, he is necessary not only listening to scholars because they hearing, but it's a weakness in his analysis. This can explain why he used ten years to learn that mainstreaming with cochlear implants not is the best solution, according to himself. Still, he have done a lot of interesting work, and this is only a warning that he is not the God of deaf education, but an excellent editor and researcher.

Thank you. That last sentence in bold certainly adds some missing nuance to GrendelQ's signature quote.

 

[GrendelQ]

One more important question: How will you accept it if your daughter chooses to live almost entirely in Deaf culture? (socially, professionally, spouse, church, etc.)

Right now I'm heavily focused on getting her to choose vegetables and renounce candy culture, so it's hard to imagine.

Our cultural experiences intersect heavily, by necessity, given her age, but even now she lives across cultures: she's a Chinese child in a Hearing family attending a school for the Deaf. She's developing multiple languages and interests that are not common to all of her cultural environments, even some apart from her own family. None of her Deaf friends from school are part of her piano, KungFu, gymnastics worlds. None of her family is Chinese, with which she identifies. None of her extracurricular classmates in activities she has chosen use ASL, her primary language. She has expanded beyond my cultural environment, beyond Deaf Culture.

I expect she'll continue to expand her interactions throughout her life. She may choose to move to China, study and marry and live in a place where I'll never be a full member. I'd be surprised, disappointed and would miss her terribly if she chose to live entirely in that culture, cutting off contact with her family and hearing friends, with her Deaf friends and schoolmates, and interacting exclusively with other Chinese within Chinese culture, using only Mandarin and not English, not ASL. But I'd accept her decision and brush up on my Mandarin and probably make every attempt to visit her within that chosen culture.

Same with Deaf Culture. I'd be surprised if she chose to live almost entirely in Deaf culture.

 

[Bottesini]

Right now I'm heavily focused on getting her to choose vegetables and renounce candy culture, so it's hard to imagine.

Our cultural experiences intersect heavily, by necessity, given her age, but even now she lives across cultures: she's a Chinese child in a Hearing family attending a school for the Deaf. She's developing multiple languages and interests that are not common to all of her cultural environments, even some apart from her own family. None of her Deaf friends from school are part of her piano, KungFu, gymnastics worlds. None of her family is Chinese, with which she identifies. None of her extracurricular classmates in activities she has chosen use ASL, her primary language. She has expanded beyond my cultural environment, beyond Deaf Culture.

I expect she'll continue to expand her interactions throughout her life. She may choose to move to China, study and marry and live in a place where I'll never be a full member. I'd be surprised, disappointed and would miss her terribly if she chose to live entirely in that culture, cutting off contact with her family and hearing friends, with her Deaf friends and schoolmates, and interacting exclusively with other Chinese within Chinese culture, using only Mandarin and not English, not ASL. But I'd accept her decision and brush up on my Mandarin and probably make every attempt to visit her within that chosen culture.

Same with Deaf Culture. I'd be surprised if she chose to live almost entirely in Deaf culture.

It would be unlikely. My family is a big mixture, and we love all the hearing ones equally. I feel you don't need to worry.

 

[GrendelQ]

Thank you. That last sentence in bold certainly adds some missing nuance to GrendelQ's signature quote.

Yes, he previously said in this interview "So, now that I've seen the evidence, I would seriously consider a cochlear implant for my child, even if, at the same time, I would push for the acquisition of ASL as a first language and use some English-based signing as a bridge to English print." But I believe his point in saying that "there is never going to be a "one size fits all" solution for deaf children either educationally or in language" is that his own personal preference for children being bilingual, using spoken language, signed English, and ASL, doesn't necessarily apply to all children.

 

[Beach girl]

Tone Language Translates To Perfect Pitch: Mandarin Speakers More Likely To Acquire Rare Musical Ability

Someone posted that article on another forum I'm on. It's about speakers of Mandarin (and other tonal languages) being more likely than speakers of Western languages to have perfect pitch.

I thought of your daughter when I saw that, since you mentioned exposing her to Mandarin. If she can speak Mandarin, it sounds like her CIs are giving her enough tonal discrimination that she might be able to bring that to music appreciation, as well. I thought it was fascinating.

 

[Mountain Man]

My goal: To broaden the definition beyond what was initially defined in answer to the OP. And I gave specific examples of situations that wouldn't be considered audism under what I saw as a limited definition, but which - to me -- clearly are cases of audism.

Except your supposedly contrary example was clearly audist even by BecLak's definition. Someone who claims to accept a culture but then rejects someone because they're a member of that culture has, in fact, not accepted the culture. More to point, someone who says, "I accept your Deaf culture, but I refuse to let you date my daughter because of your affiliation with that culture," is an audist by BecLak's definition.

I disagree with them in that I don't think that the concept of accepting Deaf Culture is a panacea or obviates audism.

You're talking token acceptance. True acceptance of Deaf culture would eliminate audism, just as true acceptance of black culture would eliminate racism.

Yes, audism can be defined without the cultural component, but BecLak's definition isn't nearly as narrow as you're making it out to be.