Audism

GrendelQ said:
I think talking about it opens up such a can of worms. :laugh2: would be a significant deviation from this thread.

I think in the same way Marschark does, quoted in my signature. There's no one right approach that fits all deaf children. I made a very clear choice about what was right for my daughter based on so much that's specific to her needs and abilities and on what we can provide. And we've Been so very happy about our decisions. But that doesn't mean our choice is necessarily right for others. I couldn't possibly give an opinion about what's right for Flip's children without knowing far more detail. And besides, why would Flip care what my opinion is on Whatever he or she thinks oralism is? I'm very qualified to make decisions for my child, but not at all qualified to tell anyone else what to do with their children. And no offense, but I feel the same applies to everybody else on this board.
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Just a small correction regarding Marschark, I've actually talked with him in person, and can confirm you that your use of his quote is taken out of context and manipulated to fit your views.

Else I don't care what you think or if we agree or not. I'm just interested in the different forms audism exist, nothing personal.
 
flip said:
Just a small correction regarding Marschark, I've actually talked with him in person, and can confirm you that your use of his quote is taken out of context and manipulated to fit your views.
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Now that's interesting. What is the context of the quote?
 
flip said:
Just a small correction regarding Marschark, I've actually talked with him in person, and can confirm you that your use of his quote is taken out of context and manipulated to fit your views.

Else I don't care what you think or if we agree or not. I'm just interested in the different forms audism exist, nothing personal.
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I link to the context from his name in the quote.
 
To Grendel, this is a discussion about discrimination against Deaf people. For me, this is my life. It feels patronizing when someone says, no your perception about your experience is wrong. It’s your prerogative to believe that I’m wrong, though, and I’m not angry or hurt by your opinion. I’ve had this same discussion with other hearing people on this forum and will have it again in the future. It’s like Groundhog Day Around here.

You said that hearing people cannot see any alternative to existing in the hearing world. That’s my point (#2 above). People in the hearing world (including my own hearing family and friends) insist that I must “adjust” to continue our relationships. That means I must wear hearing aids, read lips and accept being excluded from conversations and social activities in which I cannot fully participate *without complaint.* And don’t forget that I must learn to modulate my voice so that I’m acceptable in public. I mustn’t embarrass anyone. It’s not that I don’t want to do these things, but it’s exhausting. Sometimes, I just don’t feel like doing them.

An actual conversation in my home a while back:

ME: I’m tired of not being able to hear people in restaurants. I’m going to hang out with the Deaf people.

KID: Hey! What about me?

DAD: Learn sign language.

Kids are honest. The tension between my hearing relationships and my Deaf relationships exists. Most adults don’t say out loud that “I don’t want you to put me in a position where I can’t communicate because I’ll be uncomfortable.” It’s communicated in subtle ways.

This experience isn’t limited to Deaf people. It happens to anyone who doesn’t fit society’s expectations in some way, whether the issue is gender, sexual orientation, or any other strictly enforced expectation.

PFH, you’ve always been Deaf. I was hearing and now I’m Deaf. People have to accept that I am not the same person that I was. Many people are uncomfortable with the change or simply unwilling to exert effort on my behalf. There’s a great deal of audism because of the sudden, unexpected change.
 
@Sallylou, I don't think your perception about your experience is wrong at all.
 
@Sallylou, I don't think your perception about your experience is wrong at all.
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Thank you for acknowledging that.

One thing that's been so hard about adjusting is that I've always been the one who advises and helps other people. I've always been "the knowledgeable, responsible one." Truthfully, that probably wasn't very healthy. I'm learning to ask for help and have more reciprocal relationships. That's a good thing.
 
I initially asked Beclak an open-ended question about the reach of her definition, and while she might have extended it, she instead defined it further to be specifically Deaf Culture/language-related. I thought my 2nd post from yesterday below, was direct, and briefly says what DD7 elegantly summed up (just without labeling anyone :) )

But it doesn't cover all the questions about oralism and parental choice and ASL and choosing Deaf schools others demanded that I answer after posting this. Oddly, quite a few of the people who said they were taking issue with my perspective were actually taking issue with the same things I am.

GrendelQ said:
posts from hell said:
wrong.
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Of course it's wrong.

It's also audism, even if the person complies with all the requirements of Beclak's description by accepting the validity of Deaf culture and language.

Audism: The notion that one is superior based on one’s ability to hear or behave in the manner of one who hears.
--Tom Humphries
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It gets so tiresome to be the one having to adjust to hearing people's needs so yea, resentment does build up when they refuse to do their part to meet my deaf needs.
 
Mountain Man said:
Now that's interesting. What is the context of the quote?
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Marschark : The evidence has convinced me, more than ever, that there is never going to be a "one size fits all" solution for deaf children either educationally or in language. That's why I think Hands & Voices is so important: it emphasizes to parents that deaf children have to be seen as individuals, and we have to do what works . I would love to see a day when all deaf children are bilingual.
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Marschark also got some interesting flaws and limits. Some of his accusations are questionable, and a lot of his works are based on hearing scholars with limited knowledge on deafness. Mind you, he is necessary not only listening to scholars because they hearing, but it's a weakness in his analysis. This can explain why he used ten years to learn that mainstreaming with cochlear implants not is the best solution, according to himself. Still, he have done a lot of interesting work, and this is only a warning that he is not the God of deaf education, but an excellent editor and researcher.

The reason I mention this, is that GrendelQ use out of context quotes from Marschark as an appeal to authority. She do the same with Tom Humphries. The result is confusing for those who don't know her stance.

Disclaimer: I'm not arguing what method is best or that oralism is unacceptable.
 
jillio said:
Very familiar with that study. Interesting commentary that can be applied cross culturally.
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I agree. I am reading "Made In America" by Laurie Olsen. It is about children who were immigrants. Many of the children's point of views were similar to mine.
 
flip said:
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The reason I mention this, is that GrendelQ use out of context quotes from Marschark as an appeal to authority. She do the same with Tom Humphries. The result is confusing for those who don't know her stance.
....
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Why do you say the quote from the Gally professor who coined the term in the 70s and has written extensively on "audism" and my signature quote are used of context, Flip? Look at the sources and let me know where you see a disconnect with the author's intent.

Tom Humphries': his bio at Gallaudet
Article by Bauman (Gallaudet) "Audism: Exploring the Metaphysics of Oppression" (Oxford Jrnl of Deaf Studies & Deaf Ed, 2004) tracing the development of the concept of "audism" from the time Humphries first minted the term in the mid 70s.

Marschark's bio from RIT-NTID, his CERP program. Widely considered one of the leading researchers in the area of deaf education/cognition/etc. and much of his earlier work -- especially that in which he was outspokenly opposed to the idea that Cochlear implants were beneficial to deaf children, has been research provided to support many arguments against implanting. I've seen many of the more well-researched people on this board hold his work up as a shining beacon, from a Deaf perspective, and I've devoured it :) . He is known for basing much of his work on Deaf scholarship and being a strong proponent of ASL. As you can see from this interview, his perspective, especially on CIs, has evolved in the past 15 years, as have CIs themselves and the outcomes found in deaf children. His work continues, his focus seems to be on bilingual education.
 
GrendelQ said:
Why do you say the quote from the Gally professor who coined the term in the 70s and has written extensively on "audism" and my signature quote are used of context, Flip? Look at the sources and let me know where you see a disconnect with the author's intent.
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You seriously want me to open your can of worms, when even you won't do that? Forget it.
Tom Humphries': his bio at Gallaudet
Article by Bauman (Gallaudet) "Audism: Exploring the Metaphysics of Oppression" (Oxford Jrnl of Deaf Studies & Deaf Ed, 2004) tracing the development of the concept of "audism" from the time Humphries first minted the term in the mid 70s.

Marschark's bio from RIT-NTID, his CERP program. Widely considered one of the leading researchers in the area of deaf education/cognition/etc. and much of his earlier work -- especially that in which he was outspokenly opposed to the idea that Cochlear implants were beneficial to deaf children, has been research provided to support many arguments against implanting. I've seen many of the more well-researched people on this board hold his work up as a shining beacon, from a Deaf perspective, and I've devoured it :) . He is known for basing much of his work on Deaf scholarship and being a strong proponent of ASL. As you can see from this interview, his perspective, especially on CIs, has evolved in the past 15 years, as have CIs themselves and the outcomes found in deaf children. His work continues, his focus seems to be on bilingual education.
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You are making some inaccurate claims about Marschark and also some exaggerations, but that's expected from a non-scholar.
 
flip said:
You seriously want me to open your can of worms, when even you won't do that? Forget it.

You are making some inaccurate claims about Marschark and also some exaggerations, but that's expected from a non-scholar.
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:laugh2: You said "GrendelQ use out of context quotes from Marschark as an appeal to authority. She do the same with Tom Humphries."

As a "scholar," please support this statement. It's your can of worms, not mine.

edit: "Marschark is a genius"
 
flip said:
Just a small correction regarding Marschark, I've actually talked with him in person, and can confirm you that your use of his quote is taken out of context and manipulated to fit your views.

Else I don't care what you think or if we agree or not. I'm just interested in the different forms audism exist, nothing personal.
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Thank you, filp.:ty: I have pointed that out earlier. I detest it when people take one sentence, especially from Marschark, and attempt to make it look as if his findings and his conclusions are something other than what they are.
 
Buffalo said:
I agree. I am reading "Made In America" by Laurie Olsen. It is about children who were immigrants. Many of the children's point of views were similar to mine.
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Absolutely. It is because it is a cultural issue, which people seem to want to ignore to fit their own agendas.
 
jillio said:
Thank you, filp.:ty: I have pointed that out earlier. I detest it when people take one sentence, especially from Marschark, and attempt to make it look as if his findings and his conclusions are something other than what they are.
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Jillio, are you also, as is Flip, suggesting that my use of Marschark's quote in my signature is inconsistent with its context?
 
GrendelQ said:
:laugh2: You said "GrendelQ use out of context quotes from Marschark as an appeal to authority. She do the same with Tom Humphries."

As a "scholar," please support this statement. It's your can of worms, not mine.

edit: "Marschark is a genius"
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The fact that Marschark is a genious doesn't need to be supported by anything other than the volume of works he has produced over his lifetime on the topic of language and deaf ed. Read all of him, not just pick and choose the sentences you think support your view.
 
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