ASL in public schools??

Reba said:
One thing that concerns me is that some interpreters who use "English" signs don't use them in conceptually accurate ways. They often use signs that "sound like" the English word even if the meaning is incorrect. It drives me nuts! (IT DRIVES [car] ME NUT [peanut]-S!--I CAN BEAR [grizzly]-LY STAND [up] IT.) (I'm not yelling--those are gloss words.)
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I agree. That, too is one of my biggest complaints with SEE. It is usually conceptually incorrect. Are you taking me in the car to get peanuts, or are you telling me that bears stand up?
 
Reba said:
One thing that concerns me is that some interpreters who use "English" signs don't use them in conceptually accurate ways. They often use signs that "sound like" the English word even if the meaning is incorrect. It drives me nuts! (IT DRIVES [car] ME NUT [peanut]-S!--I CAN BEAR [grizzly]-LY STAND [up] IT.) (I'm not yelling--those are gloss words.)
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That's why I have such a hard time understanding SEE despite English being my first language.
I have to constantly work to decipher the messages being conveyed when someone is signing SEE like that.
 
shel90 said:
In my 10 years of experience in the teaching field, I have seen the opposite.

However, what I have seen is how much of a burden on the children if they dont have full access to language. That's coming from my and other's experiences whenever we share them.
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I am guessing you are speaking to the last part of my comment becuse I don't believe there would be any argument about the inconsistancies. If memory serves me, back when I was posting all of the articles from the oxford journals there were studies about the benefits of bi-bi teaching and the results were mixed.
 
rockdrummer said:
I am guessing you are speaking to the last part of my comment becuse I don't believe there would be any argument about the inconsistancies. If memory serves me, back when I was posting all of the articles from the oxford journals there were studies about the benefits of bi-bi teaching and the results were mixed.
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So, what would be a good way to teach little hearing kids to have enough signing skills to be able to tear down the walls between them and the deaf children that are mainstreamed into their schools?
 
rockdrummer said:
I am guessing you are speaking to the last part of my comment becuse I don't believe there would be any argument about the inconsistancies. If memory serves me, back when I was posting all of the articles from the oxford journals there were studies about the benefits of bi-bi teaching and the results were mixed.
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I have the most faith in the bi-bi method because I have seen so much in my 10 years being exposed to different kinds of approaches and in my opinion, the most consistent and accessible for deaf/hoh children is the bibi method. Simply because two correct models of languages are being used.

If u dont have much trust or faith in the bibi method because of your experience, I can understand.
 
shel90 said:
In my 10 years of experience in the teaching field, I have seen the opposite.

However, what I have seen is how much of a burden on the children if they dont have full access to language. That's coming from my and other's experiences whenever we share them.
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Dear Shel and all of my Deaf friends, help me to know how to start a new trend,, a new communication... I believe that it will take a joint effort. I believe that it is almost a life or death situation. If we don't put ASL in the public schools soon, what are we gonna do it the AGBELL minded people quit funding the deaf schools? What about the little angels that endure the isolation and abuse of the hearing without a visual language? Isn't it worth a few volunteer hours from any good signer to at least try to get it birthed into the minds of the new generation??? HELP ME! I will give all I have to try to erase the pain... for those who are destined to relive history... HISTORY THey will make this an oral only world unless we beat them to it by erasing teh walls.. and only the deaf community has the tools to do that...
 
shel90 said:
I have the most faith in the bi-bi method because I have seen so much in my 10 years being exposed to different kinds of approaches and in my opinion, the most consistent and accessible for deaf/hoh children is the bibi method. Simply because two correct models of languages are being used.

If u dont have much trust or faith in the bibi method because of your experience, I can understand.
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My point... if there is no money or voices to support bi-bi,,, someone has to make it happen...
 
shel90 said:
I have the most faith in the bi-bi method because I have seen so much in my 10 years being exposed to different kinds of approaches and in my opinion, the most consistent and accessible for deaf/hoh children is the bibi method. Simply because two correct models of languages are being used.

If u dont have much trust or faith in the bibi method because of your experience, I can understand.
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I am not sure why you are saying I don't have much faith in it. I am simply pointing out the facts on inconsistancies in signing. Additionally I don't know that I agree with you when you say the bi bi approach is the most accessable as there are not many programs out there and from what we have previously discussed, some of them that claim to be bi bi are really not by definition. There have also been posts from some deafies that have said the bi bi program they were in was a joke. So it's not that I don't have faith, it's that it's not that simple and straight forward and also there are many kids that do very well in other programs. It's like I have said, the whole thing is a crap shoot.
 
dreamchaser said:
So, what would be a good way to teach little hearing kids to have enough signing skills to be able to tear down the walls between them and the deaf children that are mainstreamed into their schools?
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I agree that offering ASL and other signing courses would help towards that end. My comments to Shel were regarding inconsistancies in signs within ASL and inconsistancies between the signs used in ASL and manually coded english signs. Some are similar however there are some that are quite different. Same word has different signs. For me that adds to the difficulty in learning and communicating using signs.
 
rockdrummer said:
I agree that offering ASL and other signing courses would help towards that end. My comments to Shel were regarding inconsistancies in signs within ASL and inconsistancies between the signs used in ASL and manually coded english signs. Some are similar however there are some that are quite different. Same word has different signs. For me that adds to the difficulty in learning and communicating using signs.
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So, what do you think would be workable? I am just lookin for solutions or at least the start of a solution that will hearing people understand Deaf people better, and some form of communication that keeps the Deaf child included in all aspects of life. I mostly want to stop the prejudices and walls from forming. What is the bi-bi coalition? Is there a central place to help to support them? I realize that there are differences in sign strategy, but I am thinking that for general communication ASL is more than adequate. I don't know about english literacy classes. I am guessing that might take a little SEE. But in general, how can we make our kids become a real part of the schools they go to unless the other kids learn an easy form of communication?

Our Deaf school here in Oregon has an all time low enrollment. There has been talk about shutting it down more than once. I has been moved multiple times, and we just got done fighting the legislature to keep them from combining the Deaf and Blind school for the sake of money. (They really want to get the Blind school site, because it is now a very valuable, (very very valuable) piece of real estate. I don't think these people are gonna quit trying to do away with the school. Every year the parents lose more power over the decisions and programs and staff.

The education board here lean towards mainstreaming everybody. If that happens, I want our kids to not feel like a minority with no way to communicate. The only way I can think of to find a solution is to disect the problems until I understand them well enough to know what might work to facilitate communication for the kids and their peers and teachers. Terps can't do this, and separated classes don't fill the social needs, because the misunderstandings and prejudice will still grow. I think that we need to integrate the hearing kids into the Deaf experience,?????
 
Asl

dreamchaser said:
Why couldn't Deafies volunteer an hour a month to teach ASL to public school students? That way the Education Board could not say that it costs too much. Would you be willing to volunteer an hour a month to promote ASL and try to make it a secondary national language?
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I think ALL children should be taught ASL. not just children who are Deaf. Question: do people who are deaf resent the idea of hearing people sharing their language and learning about their culture. i would think that they would appreciate it but i have heard from some that this offends some people who are deaf. and i dont understand why. maybe you could answer":bowdown:
 
RoseBud said:
I think ALL children should be taught ASL. not just children who are Deaf. Question: do people who are deaf resent the idea of hearing people sharing their language and learning about their culture. i would think that they would appreciate it but i have heard from some that this offends some people who are deaf. and i dont understand why. maybe you could answer":bowdown:
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Do u know what I tell those Deaf people who get offended about sharing "their" language? I tell them that the more hearing learn ASL, the better and better appreciate it. Either appreciate it or stop complaining about hearing people not knowing sign. However, the number is sooo small..most deaf people love it when hearing people learn ASL or know ASL.
 
rockdrummer said:
I am not sure why you are saying I don't have much faith in it. I am simply pointing out the facts on inconsistancies in signing. Additionally I don't know that I agree with you when you say the bi bi approach is the most accessable as there are not many programs out there and from what we have previously discussed, some of them that claim to be bi bi are really not by definition. There have also been posts from some deafies that have said the bi bi program they were in was a joke. So it's not that I don't have faith, it's that it's not that simple and straight forward and also there are many kids that do very well in other programs. It's like I have said, the whole thing is a crap shoot.
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It just seems like you didnt have faith cuz you kept questioning it or saying that the results were mixed...just gave me the feeling. I have nothing against that if u dont feel confident in it. If I was in your shoes or wasnt in the field of Deaf ed, maybe I would feel the same way but because I am in it full time and I see the differences between it and the TC programs. Maybe those Deaf people who called it a joke were really in TC programs but thought their programs were BiBi because the BiBi approach is relatively new. If that's the case, then I agree with them about TC approach being a joke. I have seen and worked in TC programs...I wasnt impressed with them at all. Just my opinion. I guess it is because I prefer to stick with pure models of languages not invented systems of each language.

The BiBi movement started around 1993 so we have to wait and see those kids who grew up with it from infant all the way to high school but so far it is looking good. However, the big problem and misunderstandings about them is that so many kids enter these programs at a much much older age after they have been in other kinds of programs only to become language and academically delayed. Unless they are able to catch up after being transferred to the BiBi programs, they are always going to perform years behind their age appropriate levels.

We all have to keep that important factor in mind. It could be the big reason for the mixed results you speak of.
 
shel90 said:
It just seems like you didnt have faith cuz you kept questioning it or saying that the results were mixed...just gave me the feeling. I have nothing against that if u dont feel confident in it. If I was in your shoes or wasnt in the field of Deaf ed, maybe I would feel the same way but because I am in it full time and I see the differences between it and the TC programs. Maybe those Deaf people who called it a joke were really in TC programs but thought their programs were BiBi because the BiBi approach is relatively new. If that's the case, then I agree with them about TC approach being a joke. I have seen and worked in TC programs...I wasnt impressed with them at all. Just my opinion. I guess it is because I prefer to stick with pure models of languages not invented systems of each language.

The BiBi movement started around 1993 so we have to wait and see those kids who grew up with it from infant all the way to high school but so far it is looking good. However, the big problem and misunderstandings about them is that so many kids enter these programs at a much much older age after they have been in other kinds of programs only to become language and academically delayed. Unless they are able to catch up after being transferred to the BiBi programs, they are always going to perform years behind their age appropriate levels.

We all have to keep that important factor in mind. It could be the big reason for the mixed results you speak of.
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Absolutely. That must be considered when looking at results.
 
rockdrummer said:
Looks like a newly formed organization. From what I can find perhaps Feb of 2008 ?? I'm not sure. They have only a few state chapters. Lets set what they are able to accomplish.

DeafBilingualCoalition.com - Home
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Hey RD, You have been an inspiring voice. Thanks so much for the link.. I read the stuff on the web site, and it appears that they have the same common problem that plagues most organizations that are trying to grow. Most people, Deaf and hearing, aren't aware of what they are about. They also are not aware of AGBELLS law suits and such against programs that are teaching sign. It seems that they could accomplish much if they had enough support and voices from the Deaf community first, and then add the voices of the hearing and the terps and ASL students etc. What do you think it woud take to get folks involved.
 
dreamchaser said:
Hey RD, You have been an inspiring voice. Thanks so much for the link.. I read the stuff on the web site, and it appears that they have the same common problem that plagues most organizations that are trying to grow. Most people, Deaf and hearing, aren't aware of what they are about. They also are not aware of AGBELLS law suits and such against programs that are teaching sign. It seems that they could accomplish much if they had enough support and voices from the Deaf community first, and then add the voices of the hearing and the terps and ASL students etc. What do you think it woud take to get folks involved.
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I'm already a member.
 
Actually I would volunteer. I have American Sign Language class 5th period class. My teacher doesn't sign very well and I have to help her. I was only one have to correct her even though she doesn't like it. I teach ASL at Church and at school when I have time volunteerly.
 
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