Article : vocabulary growth in toddlers

[shel90]

And why would it not apply to children that can hear... with HA or CI??

She processes it in the same way.... A sound I make she can repeat. A tone can be reproduced, most of the time..

What do you think?

I have a HA and I dont hear like people who dont have hearing losses. I was successful with oral language but I still missed out on a lot.

Ok then your daughter is benefiting from her CIs. AGain agian, great! What about those who dont benefit from their CIs..what to do with them?

 

[Cloggy]

Now, u are speaking for Cloggy? Interesting. U complain about us being mean or whatever so what u said wasnt mean? It is ok for u and others to be mean but not us? I see .....

Gee, can we get more childish...

Jackie interpreted my post correctly, and continued making her own comment.... which I totally agree with....

Now, get off your horse.... or pony..!!

 

[shel90]

Gee, can we get more childish...

Jackie interpreted my post correctly, and continued making her own comment.... which I totally agree with....

Now, get off your horse.... or pony..!!

Here we go ...throwing insults again. I guess I am childish cuz I am the one throwing insults here?

 

[shel90]

To those who disagree with my views..that's fine but I see that u are the ones who starting throwing insults at me. I just ask you questions because I want answers but instead I get insults thrown at me. Should I get mean back and play this stupid game of throwing insults at each other? It is one thing to vent or disagree but to throw personal insults at another AD member is another story.

 

[shel90]

Neecy,

We understand and we also see right through those who argue over the most insignificant points and those who tell us that we need to take classes to understand concepts that we already understand.

Thanks to you and to Boult for posting these very interesting articles.
Rick

Did I say your name? U assumed that I was talking about u. Next time, ask who I was referring to when I made that comment. It is possible that I wasnt thinking of u. Thank u.

 

[jillio]

Again, you're wrong.
BTW... describe "function as hearing"... my guess is that you have some perfect image about it..

When I say "My daughter is deaf, she can hear.." - I am pretty sure you have a different picture that I have....

Explain to me how my child that can hear with CI is not hearing.....

I've already done that numerous times, cloggy...as have others. You are simply incapable of grasping the information. And the fact that you do not understand that an article in reference to hearing children cannot be applied to deaf children says it all.

 

[jillio]

Come on Jillo you are just nit-picky. You have never gone off the subject of a thread. And if this is where Needy started this thread and you think it is the wrong place then don't read it. I am sure if one your friends started this thread then it would be OK.

Nope, I'd tell them it doesn't belong in the CI thread either, because it is not about CI.

 

[jillio]

Neecy,

We understand and we also see right through those who argue over the most insignificant points and those who tell us that we need to take classes to understand concepts that we already understand.

Thanks to you and to Boult for posting these very interesting articles.
Rick

They are not insignificant points, and the fact that you think that applying information about hearing children to deaf children is valid points out the basic flaw in your thinking and comprehension of the issues.

 

[jillio]

I can't presume to speak for Cloggy - but if somebody stands behind me and speaks to me and I "hear" every word and understand it - isn't that processing what I hear like a hearing person? I would hope the same goes for Lotte.

A good example - when I went for my yearly follow-up with my audie last week, I got 100% comprehension on the sentence recognition test in the sound booth, and 99% on single word recognition

I had a big fat ZERO % before my CI on the same tests.

And you are postlingually deafened, neecy, which is a separate issue entirely. You people keep claiming that all deaf people and all deaf children are differenct, but then you want to assume that a prelingually deafened child and a postlingually deafened adult are one and the same. Get a grip.

 

[jillio]

It has everything to do with CIs. CIs are all about developing language.

No, dear, they are not. CIs are about developing auditory perception. Quite a different issue.

 

[shel90]

And you are postlingually deafened, neecy, which is a separate issue entirely. You people keep claiming that all deaf people and all deaf children are differenct, but then you want to assume that a prelingually deafened child and a postlingually deafened adult are one and the same. Get a grip.

OHHHHHH she is postlingualed deafened? I must have missed that or forgot ..no wonder. Makes sense that she would benefit from her CI to the extent she has.

Neecy, many of the children who have CIs that I have worked with were born deaf or became deaf before developing language.

 

[jillio]

And why would it not apply to children that can hear... with HA or CI??

She processes it in the same way.... A sound I make she can repeat. A tone can be reproduced, most of the time..

What do you think? ..

What do you think after reading Neecy's post.... doesn't she process in the same way.. ?? and if not, WHY??

I don't even know why I'm bothering to clarify this agian, because it is quite obvious that you are incapable of comprehending......an assisted child is not a hearing child and they do not process information in the same way. They are still a deaf child. A deaf child with sound perception to be sure, but a deaf child just the same. If you would ever take the time to read more than an abstract of an article youwould understand what we are talking about.

And neecy is postlingually deafened. She developed language prior to becoming deaf. Another issue all together.

 

[jillio]

OHHHHHH she is postlingualed deafened? I must have missed that or forgot ..no wonder. Makes sense that she would benefit from her CI to the extent she has.

Neecy, many of the children who have CIs that I have worked with were born deaf or became deaf before developing language.

I know, shel. They just can't seem to understand the differences in the issues here, and when they are called on the inappropriateness of their cited research for the topic, they get all nasty and want to call names. Childish, childish behavior, and only serves to illustrate the fact that they can't support thier arguments in a valid logical way.

 

[neecy]

Iam happy for u..seriously since that is what u wanted. Iam not that mean nor spiteful that I would wish the CIs fail for people. That's not who I am.

Curious...have u worked with children who, for some reason, can't hear like u with their CIs and struggle with picking up on oral language until it was apparent at the age of 4 or 5 that they needed sign language?

Those are the children I work with on a daily basis hence the reason for why I have this view on the oral only approach.

Yes, this article is good but need to add word of caution..that every deaf child is different and we don't know until they are past that age if they r able to pick up on spoken language or not using their CIs. I am not a scientist so I can't explain why that happens but it is still happening.

That's why I believe in doing both to ensure the children don't pass this stage without a language cuz even if introducing signing later, it is harder for them to process conceptual understanding in any language including sign language.

I've never been a proponent of oral-only and never will. I believe that a deaf child should have a full toolbox of communication tools at their disposal, and that includes spoken language along with sign or cued speech, whichever is most convenient for the child. Note I said SIGN - it doesn't have to be ASL. After all, when the CI comes off a child is still deaf, and there are situations where they won't be able to wear the CI so sign language in some shape or form will definitely be a benefit then.

 

[neecy]

I have a HA and I dont hear like people who dont have hearing losses. I was successful with oral language but I still missed out on a lot.

Ok then your daughter is benefiting from her CIs. AGain agian, great! What about those who dont benefit from their CIs..what to do with them?

But Shel, hearing aids simply AMPLIFY sound - they don't give clarity. With a CI the process of receiving and understanding sound is vastly different. I couldn't understand anything with my HA's either!

 

[shel90]

I've never been a proponent of oral-only and never will. I believe that a deaf child should have a full toolbox of communication tools at their disposal, and that includes spoken language along with sign or cued speech, whichever is most convenient for the child. Note I said SIGN - it doesn't have to be ASL. After all, when the CI comes off a child is still deaf, and there are situations where they won't be able to wear the CI so sign language in some shape or form will definitely be a benefit then.

Agree with u..as long as the child has full access to language and by giving the child both sign language and spoken language ensures that the child wont become delayed in language.

I always saw it that way...since most parents dont know sign language, they can be the spoken models for their children (if the child with CI can use spoken language to some extent..if none at all then it is critical for the parents to learn sign language. ) and that the educational setting be the model for both languages.

 

[shel90]

But Shel, hearing aids simply AMPLIFY sound - they don't give clarity. With a CI the process of receiving and understanding sound is vastly different. I couldn't understand anything with my HA's either!

Right..HAs are not as good as CIs..I do believe that. However, for some reason, not all children process spoken information with their CIs like u do. It is all in the brain not in the ears.

I am severely profoundly deaf and with my HAs, I hear less than most other deaf/hoh people but I am able to process whatever sounds/speech more effectively than many deaf/hoh with better hearing than I do. For some reason, my brain was able to make sense of the sounds when I shouldnt be able to due to my severe deafness. Like I said, the brain works in mysterious ways..

 

[neecy]

And you are postlingually deafened, neecy, which is a separate issue entirely. You people keep claiming that all deaf people and all deaf children are differenct, but then you want to assume that a prelingually deafened child and a postlingually deafened adult are one and the same. Get a grip.

Re-read my post if you are capable of that - I never said MY experience is the same as Lotte's - I said I would HOPE it was the same!! If you can't understand that kind of commentary on this board there's no sense even trying to argue with you - as Cloggy said - when there isn't anything for you to really debate you resort to nit-picking.

I can't even share a personal experience, and SAY its a personal experience without you coming up with something to complain about - do you have it out for me for some reason, or are you simply trying to find something, ANYTHING, to dispute?

You're welcome to go through life with your head stuck in the sand, but there are parents here (such as Cloggy's daughter) shown on this forum who have shown where children have acquired spoken language after being implanted. Every time something good is mentioned about a CI -implanted child, you, or Shel immediately retort "but its not that way with everybody!" - Do you require that every single positive post about CI's have an asterisk beside it with the warning "this might not happen to everybody" ?

NOTHING in this world is 100%. Nobody has ever claimed anything with CI's is 100%. CI's work in conjunction with the amount of effort put into it. If a parent has a child implanted with the belief that they won't have to WORK with the child to help them acquire language, that all they have to do is sit back and the CI will do all the work, they're in for a rude awakening.

CI is a TOOL. Like any tool, its there make things a bit easier, but you still have to WORK with it.

 

[neecy]

I know, shel. They just can't seem to understand the differences in the issues here, and when they are called on the inappropriateness of their cited research for the topic, they get all nasty and want to call names. Childish, childish behavior, and only serves to illustrate the fact that they can't support thier arguments in a valid logical way.

I've not called names or gotten nasty. I have banged my head against the desk a few times in frustration though.

I still say that there is NOTHING wrong with discussing language acquisition along with CI's in children in this forum. If you don't want to read it you don't have to! The fact that several people have been posting about language acquisition with relation to the original topic here shows that they thing it has merit as well. I'm sorry this topic isn't up to whatever standard you have, but I am not sorry for having made it.

 

[shel90]

But Shel, hearing aids simply AMPLIFY sound - they don't give clarity. With a CI the process of receiving and understanding sound is vastly different. I couldn't understand anything with my HA's either!

Cloggy brought up children being able to hear with HAs and I am a HA user..I am aware that HAs amplify sounds.