Article : vocabulary growth in toddlers

[Cloggy]

.............
By saying that Jillo played it safe must mean that exposing her son to both ASL and spoken language is not as good as exposing your daughter to spoken language only? I don't see how deaf people with excellent oral skills are better than those who don't have any. ............

As I recall, she was not exposed to oral only.
I have never heared the statement that oral skills are better than sign.

Sad how you make these statements..

 

[jillio]

She does not use sign with her friends as they are predominately oral. Remember she was able to make it in the mainstream, we did not have to send her to a different school. She attended school with all her friends that she has grown up with. She has no interest in Deaf culture, never has and does not want to associate with people like you who do not accept her for who she is, that is why she prefers being around the oral deaf.

BTW we communicate with each other in ours and her native language: spoken English

Contradiction in statement. You said that she was learning sign language in order to communicate with her friends whose oral skills were not as good as her own.

I din't HAVE to send my son to a deaf school....I CHOSE to send my son to a deaf school for the obvious advantages it supplied educationally and socially to a mainstreamed placement.

Oh, but rick, we do accept her for who she is....deaf with CI. It is you who does not accept that.

If you don't want to associate with "people like us" what are you doing on this message board, continually throwing personal insults our way? If lack of association is your goal, I would sugggest that you make yourself absent.

Still haven't answered my question. Would you care to explain exactly how you perceive mmy decisions regarding my son's welfare to be "the easy way". Or exactly what you mean by that statement?

 

[jillio]

Yep, iam enjoying having my head so far up in my pal's butt. LOL!

Speaking of having a head up a butt, I believe I recall telling rick in another post that he was suffering from environmentally induced deafness. Came from having his head up his butt for extended periods of time. He can't even come up with an original thought in his insults! LOL.

 

[jillio]

As I recall, she was not exposed to oral only.
I have never heared the statement that oral skills are better than sign.

Sad how you make these statements..

Look again. She was oral only until college when she decided to take a course in ASL to improve communication with her deaf peers.

 

[Cloggy]

Look again. She was oral only until college when she decided to take a course in ASL to improve communication with her deaf peers.

Choosing an oral only college does not mean that there's no exposure to sign-language.

 

[jillio]

Choosing an oral only college does not mean that there's no exposure to sign-language.

No, cloggy. You misunderstand. She was raised and educated orally through high school. She is enrolled at a hearing college where she is just beginning to learn sign language at this point in time. No sign before college.

My son attends a hearing college. But they have a large deaf population. So there is sign exposure. You are right that hearing college doesn't mean no sign exposure. In fact, probably more than at the mainstreamed high school level. You just misunderstood what was being said.

 

[jillio]

I'm sure you "managed" your son as well. You used the same skills that Rick used, had the same options and made different choices. But still, you probably "managed" your son as well.
As you said, he's succesful, and for children to be succesful "management" by their parents is important.

I thought "lack of management" by parents is the problem....

Oh, you are misunderstanding again. I did not "manage" my son's deafness, as I never attempted to reduce his deafness. My son and I lived with his deafness as it was. We appraoched things from the standpoint of what was, not what we wished things to be. And we built upwards from what was.

And, please.....rick and I did not use the same skills. First of all, I raised my son as a single parent, and was extremely involved in his life both educationally and soically. Rick admits that his wife did the childrearing and decision making.

Further, I went about developing new skills in order to communciate with and interact with my child. Rick never bothered to do that.

And, no I did not "manage" my son. I raised him, I parented him, I disciplined him, I communicated with him, I interacted with him, I made choices to expose him to the wider picture of deafness instead of limiting him tot he view of deafness as a loss of hearing or a deficit in functioning, and I guided him. But no, I did not "manage" him.

 

[Cloggy]

Oh, you are misunderstanding again. I did not "manage" my son's deafness, as I never attempted to reduce his deafness.

Ah, so for you "Manage" equals "Trying to reduce deafness." For me, "manage" has nothing to do with deafness. It has to do with making sure my child has the best possibilitie available to her, making sure she is getting all the support that she should get, that people understand her needs, her requirements, her strengths, her weakneses...
haven't you done that for your son... Managed to get that best available for him... Didn't you "manage" to learn sign.
You have a way to change a word in something negative when it is used by someone you don't agree with... You use the word to attack the person... and of course you cannot use the word for yourself any more..
So how would you call your "managing" that you did for/with your son andf yourself...???

My son and I lived with his deafness as it was. We appraoched things from the standpoint of what was, not what we wished things to be. And we built upwards from what was.

And, please.....rick and I did not use the same skills. First of all, I raised my son as a single parent, and was extremely involved in his life both educationally and soically. Rick admits that his wife did the childrearing and decision making.

And that makes him.... wrong, and makes you... right.
What kind of nonsense is that? You accused me of taking something personally, and what are you doing here.... using it to score "mother raised her deaf son along points".

Further, I went about developing new skills in order to communciate with and interact with my child. Rick never bothered to do that.

... again, using such negative words... Why?.... Rick did not do that, but never "bothered"... He chose a different route, made different choices, and look at his daughter... She is as happy and integrated as your son. So, how does that make him wrong.??

And, no I did not "manage" my son. I raised him, I parented him, I disciplined him, I communicated with him, I interacted with him, I made choices to expose him to the wider picture of deafness instead of limiting him tot he view of deafness as a loss of hearing or a deficit in functioning, and I guided him. But no, I did not "manage" him.

Yes, that's managing him... YOu just don't like the word... but in the end, that's just what it is..
I did the same as you. Rick did the same...
He raised her, he parented her, he disciplined her, he communicated with her, he interacted with her, and exposed her to a wider picture of hearing than otherwise possible.
And again.... didn't your children end up a great adults... Didn't you both do great?

 

[rick48]

Look again. She was oral only until college when she decided to take a course in ASL to improve communication with her deaf peers.

She is still oral only and only took, actually, two courses as I have said before, to fulfill a requirement for her degree and at my suggestion.

Why do you persist in your delusion about the discussion my wife and I had with our daughter about her college courses? Why do you persist in making things up about us? Were you there when we had our discussion? Are you that obsessed with our family that you now think you took part in our actual conversations?

Here's a reality check: You were not there.

 

[jillio]

Ah, so for you "Manage" equals "Trying to reduce deafness." For me, "manage" has nothing to do with deafness. It has to do with making sure my child has the best possibilitie available to her, making sure she is getting all the support that she should get, that people understand her needs, her requirements, her strengths, her weakneses...
haven't you done that for your son... Managed to get that best available for him... Didn't you "manage" to learn sign.
You have a way to change a word in something negative when it is used by someone you don't agree with... You use the word to attack the person... and of course you cannot use the word for yourself any more..
So how would you call your "managing" that you did for/with your son andf yourself...???

Because, cloggy, in the classic conotation of the world, it is synonomous with "control"
And that makes him.... wrong, and makes you... right.
What kind of nonsense is that? You accused me of taking something personally, and what are you doing here.... using it to score "mother raised her deaf son along points".
... again, using such negative words... Why?.... Rick did not do that, but never "bothered"... He chose a different route, made different choices, and look at his daughter... She is as happy and integrated as your son. So, how does that make him wrong.??

Where did you see the word wrong in any of my posts? You are again making assumptions.
Yes, that's managing him... YOu just don't like the word... but in the end, that's just what it is..
I did the same as you. Rick did the same...

No, cloggy, rick did not do the same as I.
He raised her, he parented her, he disciplined her, he communicated with her, he interacted with her, and exposed her to a wider picture of hearing than otherwise possible.

The fact that you refuse to see the differences is every indication that, once again, you are resorting to obstinance to cloud and distract from the issue. I thought you had decided to engage in intelligent conversation, cloggy.

And again.... didn't your children end up a great adults... Didn't you both do great?

Gee, I don't see myself as totally responsible for the way mky child turned out. He himself had a lot to do with it, as did others who have had an influence on him. I just did my job as a parent. He deserves the credit for his accomplishments, not me.

 

[jillio]

She is still oral only and only took, actually, two courses as I have said before, to fulfill a requirement for her degree and at my suggestion.

Why do you persist in your delusion about the discussion my wife and I had with our daughter about her college courses? Why do you persist in making things up about us? Were you there when we had our discussion? Are you that obsessed with our family that you now think you took part in our actual conversations?

Here's a reality check: You were not there.

Nope. rick, I wasn't there. But I was there to read your posts. And you still haven't answered my question. What exactly did you mean when you said I took the safe way? You need to explain that comment.

 

[rick48]

And, please.....rick and I did not use the same skills. First of all, I raised my son as a single parent, and was extremely involved in his life both educationally and soically. Rick admits that his wife did the childrearing and decision making.

WRONG!

I have said many times that I give all the credit to my wife for turning out a wonderful daughter because she is a fantastic parent, whose instincts are ususally 100% and because she gave herself totally to making certain that our daughter was able to take advantage of the opportunities we provided to her.

However for you to apply such a literal interpretation to what I have said to the extent that you believe I had no role in my daughter's childrearing and/or the decision making process regarding her is just not true. It is a misinterpretation, either intentional or unintentional, of my statements and thus, I am taking the time now to correct your erroneous understanding.

I am sorry for any confusion this may have caused you and I should have corrected you sooner, but am doing so now so that you no longer have to operate under your erroneous belief as to my parental role.

 

[jillio]

WRONG!

I have said many times that I give all the credit to my wife for turning out a wonderful daughter because she is a fantastic parent, whose instincts are ususally 100% and because she gave herself totally to making certain that our daughter was able to take advantage of the opportunities we provided to her.

However for you to apply such a literal interpretation to what I have said to the extent that you believe I had no role in my daughter's childrearing and/or the decision making process regarding her is just not true. It is a misinterpretation, either intentional or unintentional, of my statements and thus, I am taking the time now to correct your erroneous understanding.

I am sorry for any confusion this may have caused you and I should have corrected you sooner, but am doing so now so that you no longer have to operate under your erroneous belief as to my parental role.

Hey rick, when are you going to answer my question?

 

[rick48]

Hey rick, when are you going to answer my question?

Don't know but when I do, I'll let you know.

 

[jillio]

Don't know but when I do, I'll let you know.

Ahhh, come on rick. Tell us what you meant by your comment regarding me taking the easy way. We'd all like for you to clarify what you meant. Come on, where's the old bravado, rick?