Are you Pro-Life or Pro-Choice?

[Foxrac]

Who's "she"? Webexplorer?
Yeah, i guess she could use protein pills or protein shakes, i know
that, but the point im making is: since vegans do not eat any
meat, dairy products, seafood at all, that means no PROTEINS
at all, so how you get proteins??? you know we gotta
have em, thats my point.

Other answer...

Vegans can take protein pills, that one choice.

or there's some portion of vegetables have small gram of proteins.

 

[Reba]

It explains in those link...

animals must be stunned (dead within seconds) before slaughter them....

Council of Europe - Explanatory report on the European Convention for the Protection of Animals for Slaughter (ETS no. 102)

Interesting link. I read the whole thing. Did you?

It does not say that "animals must be stunned (dead within seconds) before slaughter them". To slaughter means to kill. To stun means to be unconscious. Your statement says that must be "dead" before they are killed. That doesn't make any sense.

Also, that link shows that they are very general guidelines with many exceptions. It doesn't include all animals.

I thought the statement about stunning the bunnies before suspension was interesting.

Also, the guidelines don't control the slaughter of animals in other countries which are imported to Germany and the other European nations.

Also, it doesn't provide for oversight, inspection, and punishment for offenders. In other words, where's the authority for enforcement?

It's an interesting link but that's not an actual regulation. I assume there are more links somewhere with the details that weren't included on this one.

 

[Mistyrose]

Other answer...

Vegans can take protein pills, that one choice.

or there's some portion of vegetables have small gram of proteins.

Oh, interesting....if vegans take protein pills, then where does
"proteins" come from?? Is it artificial? or what? Everybody need
proteins for heathy cells and energy.

I will have to google on veggies on which veggies do contain
proteins then...
Even if they have small grams of proteins, it wont be enough
to provide for healthy cells.

 

[Liebling:-)))]

Interesting link. I read the whole thing. Did you?

It does not say that "animals must be stunned (dead within seconds) before slaughter them". To slaughter means to kill. To stun means to be unconscious. Your statement says that must be "dead" before they are killed. That doesn't make any sense.

Also, that link shows that they are very general guidelines with many exceptions. It doesn't include all animals.

I thought the statement about stunning the bunnies before suspension was interesting.

Also, the guidelines don't control the slaughter of animals in other countries which are imported to Germany and the other European nations.

Also, it doesn't provide for oversight, inspection, and punishment for offenders. In other words, where's the authority for enforcement?

It's an interesting link but that's not an actual regulation. I assume there are more links somewhere with the details that weren't included on this one.

Yes I have read... So?

I know the German law how and what treat animal before kill them for the foods. They MUST killed animal fast with electricity tool to aviod pain and fear before they slaughter dead animal (cut their bodies, remove organs, etc.) I provided some links about German law in several threads.

 

[Reba]

Yes I have read... So?

I know the German law how and what treat animal before kill them for the foods. They MUST killed animal fast with electricity tool to aviod pain and fear before they slaughter dead animal (cut their bodies, remove organs, etc.) I provided some links about German law in several threads.

That might be the law but you didn't include that in your link.

If you read your link, then you know that they stun the animal first (making it unconscious), then they slaughter it (kill it), and then butcher it (cut it up). It doesn't say anything about killing the animals with "electricity tool". The animals are stunned with electricity but they are not killed by it. It doesn't mention the mode of killing but it's probably the same slaughter methods that everyone uses. The only difference is they get stunned before the killing process.

 

[dreama]

Who's "she"? Webexplorer?
Yeah, i guess she could use protein pills or protein shakes, i know
that, but the point im making is: since vegans do not eat any
meat, dairy products, seafood at all, that means no PROTEINS
at all, so how you get proteins??? you know we gotta
have em, thats my point.

I am vegan. There is no problem getting protein from plant based sources. Soya is an excellant form of protein. You can also get protein from lentils, nuts, seeds, and also vegitables like brocoli.

The only thing you need vitamines for is for B12. I had to learn that the hard way as I wasn't so healthy when I first went vegan. Now I take B12 and I also got rid of my microwave and deep fat frier and replaced it with a steamer I am much healthier.

 

[dreama]

Yes I have read... So?

I know the German law how and what treat animal before kill them for the foods. They MUST killed animal fast with electricity tool to aviod pain and fear before they slaughter dead animal (cut their bodies, remove organs, etc.) I provided some links about German law in several threads.

Not all animals are stunned first. Muslims and Jews are exempt from stunning their animals. They just cut their throats while they are fully concious.

Also if an animal isn't stunned properly they may regain conciousness before they are actually killed. This does happen as the workers are payed as to how many animals they kill so sometimes they do a rough job. This happens in UK, In USA and I would be extremely surprised if it didn't happen in Germany too.

 

[Tousi]

Not all animals are stunned first. Muslims and Jews are exempt from stunning their animals. They just cut their throats while they are fully concious.

Also if an animal isn't stunned properly they may regain conciousness before they are actually killed. This does happen as the workers are payed as to how many animals they kill so sometimes they do a rough job. This happens in UK, In USA and I would be extremely surprised if it didn't happen in Germany too.

Makes me curious why the exemption for stunning? This appears to be for religious purposes but for practical purposes, I would think that maybe shocking/stunning might cause the meat to be somewhat tougher......

 

[dreama]

Makes me curious why the exemption for stunning? This appears to be for religious purposes but for practical purposes, I would think that maybe shocking/stunning might cause the meat to be somewhat tougher......

So I believe it was written somewhere in their holy book. If they don't get their way I expect they would make a major musical about it, you what some muslims are like when they don't get their way. However stoning adulterers and cutting the hand off theives is also written in the koran. Fortunately we don't permit muslims to do either these things in britain so I don't really understand why they should make alowances for the way they kill animals either. If their religion forbids them to stun animals they could simply go veggie.

 

[MilitaryGirl83]

What's the animal killings have to do with this abortion debate? :roll:

 

[Audiofuzzy]

Did I said that US has no law for animal rights? I only talked about my country... Is it forbid or what? If the people talk about their countries what they know about laws is welcome as well.

Did I said that Germans NEVER abuse animals? Can you show me where I have say that Germans NEVER abuse animals?

I only say what I know about German law. Is it forbid to talk about my country? All what I said is ILLEGAL to abuse animals like this here in Germany accord animal right/welfare. If they found out then they will punish them for abuse animals like this.

Do you think I don't know that US don't have animal rights/welfare? :roll: We debated about animal rights in other threads. We all know that animal rights/welfare everywhere in the world but they fix the law on animal rights/welfare differently.

Ok, so what's the point of you saying constantly "Germany this, Germany that?"

If you say """All what I said is ILLEGAL to abuse animals like this here in Germany "" you IMPLY "maybe it is allowed in USA, but Germany.."

I suggest you should stop for a minute, and think how you may come accross when you say things like that.


Fuzzy

 

[Reba]

Makes me curious why the exemption for stunning? This appears to be for religious purposes but for practical purposes, I would think that maybe shocking/stunning might cause the meat to be somewhat tougher......

You might find this report interesting:

http://www.mustaqim.co.uk/printhalalstudy.htm

It explains a lot.

 

[Reba]

So I believe it was written somewhere in their holy book. If they don't get their way I expect they would make a major musical about it, you what some muslims are like when they don't get their way. However stoning adulterers and cutting the hand off theives is also written in the koran. Fortunately we don't permit muslims to do either these things in britain so I don't really understand why they should make alowances for the way they kill animals either. If their religion forbids them to stun animals they could simply go veggie.

You also might be interested in this:

The Halal Study

It answers some of your questions.

 

[Foxrac]

Oh, interesting....if vegans take protein pills, then where does
"proteins" come from?? Is it artificial? or what? Everybody need
proteins for heathy cells and energy.

I will have to google on veggies on which veggies do contain
proteins then...
Even if they have small grams of proteins, it wont be enough
to provide for healthy cells.

It can be both of natural and artificial for protein pills.

Look at dreama's post.

 

[dreama]

You also might be interested in this:

The Halal Study

It answers some of your questions.

I started reading it but it made me see red. I just couldn't read it after it said about scientific evaluation of animals need being preferable to animal welfare(never mind RIGHTS). All I can say is I hope the guy who wrote that comes back as an animal and gets tortured to death in a labortory. Then they can talk about scientific evaluation of animals!

It basicly promotes animal cruelty. That's all there is to it.

 

[Hwy99]

wow interesting...

*curious question*

I'm surprised that fish belongs to animal group which I thought they doesn't belong animal group because they doesn't have 4 legs but fins and tails? My good friend consider himself as a Vegan because he don't eat meats but eggs, milk products (diary) and fish. I will question him when I see him again.

But egg is not animal or what? Is it because the egg come from chicken?

Dairy (milk products) - do you mean that we should not eat homemade cake where there're milk products and eggs including? or cheesecake? I think you should create a new thread about this.

The eggs are not develop any baby inside, it's normal that chickens just drop the eggs without developing the baby. If the egg is really develop the baby then it should have RED blood inside, possible orange too. So I don't feel any problem with eating the eggs.

About diary, if you are vegan, then yes you can't eat ANYTHING that are diary, but as being vegetarian myself, I can eat the diary because I don't feel any problem about eating the diary while it doesn't kill the animals.

I did create the thread "Fruitarianism" at the Health section

Oh my goodness! what in the world do you EAT, then?
Just vegetables only? what do you eat for proteins? You know
you have to have proteins and fish/meats do provide proteins and you
wont eat any seafood?
I would guess you have to take a lot of vitamins in order to stay
ALIVE, lol!
give us your insight on what you eat and all, ok? .....im curious.

No. Not only vegetables, I am a vegetarian so I eat eggs and diary too, just no meats that's all. I get my proteins alot from the eggs, also I eat the fruits to have vitnams. I also mix the vegetables during the cooking to have enough proteins. There is many ways to get well balance as being vegetarians, that applies to vegans too.

She's veggie, not vegan.

She can drink protein shake or take protein pills.

Haha it's he

Oop, I means PuyoPiyo as he... not your brother, webexplorer.

I was about to tell ya hehe

 

[Liebling:-)))]

Not all animals are stunned first. Muslims and Jews are exempt from stunning their animals. They just cut their throats while they are fully concious.

Yes I know it me total that German Judge allow Muslims and Jews do that for "religions purposal". It me total because I don't like to see animal suffer with pain... I know how pain feeling when Muslims and Jews cut animal's throat and let them suffer with pain slowly to death... I don't go to Muslim butcher shop...

One thing I really don't understand German Justice system anymore is: Honor killing is not acceptance accord Muslim's belief accord German law but accept what/how Muslims treat animals like this.

Also if an animal isn't stunned properly they may regain conciousness before they are actually killed. This does happen as the workers are payed as to how many animals they kill so sometimes they do a rough job. This happens in UK, In USA and I would be extremely surprised if it didn't happen in Germany too.

Yes, we have slaughter houses here in Germany. They MUST follow the rules how to treat the animal before killed them. They should killed fast as possible with no suffer pain. That's how I learn from my friend who work for slaughter house. He told me the story about his work place. The animals from any farms are transport to slaughter house and don't kill them straight way but leave animal there for a while to weeks then kill them. I only know about German law but I has no idea about other countries law how to treat animals in slaughter house before kill them. All what I saw from TV and videos... It's really and terrible to treat animal with suffer pain.

 

[Liebling:-)))]

So I believe it was written somewhere in their holy book. If they don't get their way I expect they would make a major musical about it, you what some muslims are like when they don't get their way. However stoning adulterers and cutting the hand off theives is also written in the koran. Fortunately we don't permit muslims to do either these things in britain so I don't really understand why they should make alowances for the way they kill animals either. If their religion forbids them to stun animals they could simply go veggie.

your description about cutting the hand off remind me of my vacation in Africa. I withnessed the children with no hand but show some venes... I never, never, never forget what I saw them in real life and ask the Tourist Guide what it is because it's not first but more children like this. He explain that they are punish for steal the foods, etc. A lot of people due their beliefs have no feeling for animals and think they are only "thing"

 

[Liebling:-)))]

Ok, so what's the point of you saying constantly "Germany this, Germany that?"

If you say """All what I said is ILLEGAL to abuse animals like this here in Germany "" you IMPLY "maybe it is allowed in USA, but Germany.."

I suggest you should stop for a minute, and think how you may come accross when you say things like that.


Fuzzy

I only say what I know about German law because I live in Germany, not other countries. I should not say that I know everything about other countries because I don't live there and don't know their laws either.

 

[Liebling:-)))]

What's the animal killings have to do with this abortion debate? :roll:

Yes I realized that we made :topic: on your thread "Pro-choice vs Pro-life". I'm sorry that we ignored your thread title and will try to get Moderator to move our :topic: posts over other thread with title "slaughterhouse".