Anyone Else Feel Like They Have Asperger Syndrome?

[fredfam1]

ADHD manifests in behavioral symptoms. That does not mean that it is a behavioral disorder, or that it is a behavioral anomaly. It simply means that the behvioral manifestations are easily observable, and an indicator of neurological dysfunction. Because we can't see the brain at work unless we using diagnostic tests such as a CAT scan, we must rely on behavioral manifestations that can be readily observed as part of the diagnostic procedure. Just as when a child has a case of the chicken pox....we can't see the virus in their blood stream, but we can see the spots on the skin that are indicative of viral infection.

I'm glad that Ginko and a natural diet worked for your daughter, and I would suggest that she was at the mild end of the continuum. However, for amny children, other interventions are, indeed, necessary, to allow them to function on a day to day basis.

It is not just a matter of increasing circulation within the brain. It is the way the brain reacts to various stimulation. Actual response is decreased in particular areas of the brain in ADHD patients, and it is not circulation that is decreased, but synaptic response.

Any continuum of behavior will extend into the non-affected population in specific circumstance. That is why a pattern of continued behaviors outside that which can be expected in the non-affected population must be observed to come to a definitive diagnosis. For instance, symptoms of depression extend into the non-affected population and are considered to be normal response to various events. If one looses a loved one, and responds with situational depressive symptoms, it is not evidence of a clinical disorder. However, if one exhibits depressive symptoms over a period of time without situational triggers that can account for an epected response, it is indication that further evaluation is needed for clinical depression.

She was diagnosed by a Behavioral Pediatric Psychiatrist as being at the extreme end of ADHD. Even though my interventions helped they did not
tottally compensate. She always required the best I could give her, which were a combinations of the PET techniques, and any other parenting books I could get my hands on. However in public the most effective method for keeping this mind busy, that went 100 miles per hour was doing ASL. She loved the fact that no one else knew what we were saying to each other. It was a marvelous secret spy game we played. I think it served best to take her brain off all the other sensory input she was getting.

 

[jillio]

Would you include dysthymia? This is treated with SRIs typically when I think it should be treated with cognitive behavioral and talk therapy and if it is affecting their life then a liscensed psychiatrist who would be willing to consult with an ND should be used. It has been my personal experience that this is made worse with meds, not better and I don't believe it is a psychiatric illness but learned a learned cognitive behavior.

Yes, I would include Dysthymic Disorder. Dysthymic Disorder is generally treated with a combination of SSRIs (in patients that can tolerate them well) and therapy. Empirical evidence supports the effectiveness of this combination. CBT or psychtherapuetuc techniques cannot be effective until the depressive symptoms are relieved. There are actually several theoretical approaches to therapy that have been shown to be effective in the treatment of Dysthymic Disorder.

While the behaviors used to cope with a chronic mood disorder may be learned, the actual disorder is not a learned behavior. Only the coping mechanisms are learned. CBT can be useful in teaching new skills for coping. So can other theoretical approaches.

Dysthymic Disorder is a chronic disorder, and the diagnostic criteria reflect that. Several criteria must be met before one arrives at a diagnosis.

I'm unsure of what you mean by "if it is affecting their life." People don't present for diagnosis and treatment unless a disorder is affecting their life. It is the problems created in their daily living by the disorder that bring them to the professional for help. Virtually everyone that presents for diagnosis and treatment is experiencing distress over their symptoms.

 

[jillio]

She was diagnosed by a Behavioral Pediatric Psychiatrist as being at the extreme end of ADHD. Even though my interventions helped they did not
tottally compensate. She always required the best I could give her, which were a combinations of the PET techniques, and any other parenting books I could get my hands on. However in public the most effective method for keeping this mind busy, that went 100 miles per hour was doing ASL. She loved the fact that no one else knew what we were saying to each other. It was a marvelous secret spy game we played. I think it served best to take her brain off all the other sensory input she was getting.

Ah, so the Ginko and the diet change did not alleviate the symptoms of ADHD. She still required the management of symptoms through behavior mod and accommodation.

 

[jillio]

As usual I will probably just get told I don't understand what people are saying.

Why are you arguing medication in an Asperger's thread?

Yes I actually know I have Asperger's syndrome. I was upgraded in adulthood from a childhood diagnosis of atypical autism.

The only medication normally given to Asperger's patients is on an as needed basis for the symptoms of anxiety that usually accompany the disorder.

You are correct re: medications used in Asperger's. Meds are not prescribed for the Asperger's but may be prescribed to manage secondary symtpoms.

The reason that we are discussing meds is because I replied to a poster that stated that one either had a severe form of autism, or no autism at all. Fredfam objected to my statement that the refusal to see the whole spectrum was black and white thinking, and that form of thinking was the result of cognitive distortions.

In my attempts to explain the post to Fredfam, the subject of meds used for various mental disorders came up, and the rest is history.

I think the thread began to go in a different direction when the OP himself brought up the topic of Avoidant Personality Disorder.

 

[fredfam1]

Ah, so the Ginko and the diet change did not alleviate the symptoms of ADHD. She still required the management of symptoms through behavior mod and accommodation.

Yes quite correct. But either one alone was insufficient. And at the time,(1983) the only course of treatment offered me was medication. Because the Therapist and the school board noted that, "Parenting techniques observed were more than adequate". It was up to me as the parent to aquire the skills I needed. I hope that has changed now and more direction and support are ofered parents who may be less aware of alternatives. Behavior mod kept me hopping and accommodatiion and ginko with diet were the pivitol areas that moved her from unmanagble to managable. She went from being totally behind in public school in 4th grade (15th %) to the 75% range overall academically in 9nth grade.

 

[fredfam1]

Yes, I would include Dysthymic Disorder. Dysthymic Disorder is generally treated with a combination of SSRIs (in patients that can tolerate them well) and therapy. Empirical evidence supports the effectiveness of this combination. CBT or psychtherapuetuc techniques cannot be effective until the depressive symptoms are relieved. There are actually several theoretical approaches to therapy that have been shown to be effective in the treatment of Dysthymic Disorder.

While the behaviors used to cope with a chronic mood disorder may be learned, the actual disorder is not a learned behavior. Only the coping mechanisms are learned. CBT can be useful in teaching new skills for coping. So can other theoretical approaches.

Dysthymic Disorder is a chronic disorder, and the diagnostic criteria reflect that. Several criteria must be met before one arrives at a diagnosis.

I'm unsure of what you mean by "if it is affecting their life." People don't present for diagnosis and treatment unless a disorder is affecting their life. It is the problems created in their daily living by the disorder that bring them to the professional for help. Virtually everyone that presents for diagnosis and treatment is experiencing distress over their symptoms.

Thomas Szasz, M.D., Professor of Psychiatry Emeritus: The Internationally renowned psychiatrist, Dr. Thomas Szasz, writes, “The ostensible validity of DSM is reinforced by psychiatry’s claim that mental illnesses are brain diseases—a claim supposedly based on recent discoveries in brain imaging techniques and pharmacological agents for treatment. This is not true.” He also says, “There is no blood or other biological test to ascertain the presence of a mental illness, as there is for most bodily diseases. If such a test were developed, then the condition would cease to be a mental illness and would be classified, instead, as a symptom of a bodily disease.”

Dr. Sydney Walker, III, psychiatrist, neurologist:

“[The DSM] has led to the unnecessary drugging of millions of American children who could be diagnosed, treated, and cured without the use of toxic and potentially lethal medications.”

 

[jillio]

Yes quite correct. But either one alone was insufficient. And at the time,(1983) the only course of treatment offered me was medication. Because the Therapist and the school board noted that, "Parenting techniques observed were more than adequate". It was up to me as the parent to aquire the skills I needed. I hope that has changed now and more direction and support are ofered parents who may be less aware of alternatives. Behavior mod kept me hopping and accommodatiion and ginko with diet were the pivitol areas that moved her from unmanagble to managable. She went from being totally behind in public school in 4th grade (15th %) to the 75% range overall academically in 9nth grade.

Congratulations on her improvements.

 

[jillio]

Thomas Szasz, M.D., Professor of Psychiatry Emeritus: The Internationally renowned psychiatrist, Dr. Thomas Szasz, writes, “The ostensible validity of DSM is reinforced by psychiatry’s claim that mental illnesses are brain diseases—a claim supposedly based on recent discoveries in brain imaging techniques and pharmacological agents for treatment. This is not true.” He also says, “There is no blood or other biological test to ascertain the presence of a mental illness, as there is for most bodily diseases. If such a test were developed, then the condition would cease to be a mental illness and would be classified, instead, as a symptom of a bodily disease.”

Dr. Sydney Walker, III, psychiatrist, neurologist:

“[The DSM] has led to the unnecessary drugging of millions of American children who could be diagnosed, treated, and cured without the use of toxic and potentially lethal medications.”

A bit misleading. While there are no current blood or biological tests that ascertain the presence of a mental illness, brain imaging has identified certain conditions within the brain that are correlated to the behavioral symptoms of those diagnosed with some mental disorders. The same conditions do not appear in correlation with control groups of non-mentally disordered clients.

The DSM, nor any reputable psychiatrist or general physician, psychologist, or LPCC would ever claim that the differences seen on brain imaging scans are the etiology, or cause, of the mental disorder. The claim is that certain structural differences are present in conjunction with certain behavioral manifestations that are the observable criteria for diagnosis.

Nor does anyone, anywhere claim that psychotropic medications "cure" an individual, nor that treatment of any form "cures" a mental disorder. They merely claim that medication often controls the psychotic symptoms that render the individual non-functional, and that therapy teaches skills to the individual to best manage their disorder through cognitive and behavioral coping mechanisms.

So, while Scasz's statement might appear to be powerful at first glance, one needs to look below his accusations to the way things really are. Re: the claims against the DSM, neither Walker nor Scasz were on the Task Force for the most recent version of the DSM, nor were they contributing authors. The fact that Walker uses the word "cure" leads to his credibility being questioned.

The DSM does not make recommedations for medication. The DSM is a diagnostic manual, not a treatment manual.

 

[Bottesini]

You are correct re: medications used in Asperger's. Meds are not prescribed for the Asperger's but may be prescribed to manage secondary symtpoms.

The reason that we are discussing meds is because I replied to a poster that stated that one either had a severe form of autism, or no autism at all. Fredfam objected to my statement that the refusal to see the whole spectrum was black and white thinking, and that form of thinking was the result of cognitive distortions.

In my attempts to explain the post to Fredfam, the subject of meds used for various mental disorders came up, and the rest is history.

I think the thread began to go in a different direction when the OP himself brought up the topic of Avoidant Personality Disorder.

Thank you for your concise explanation. ( And since I actually did not realize why, I will point out that I have the ability to laugh at myself) (Or give a tiny giggle)

 

[Bottesini]

Are they maps of Potter land?

Anyway I think how this discussion relates to the Aspergers thread is how meds can be prescribed unecessarily for things that in other times would have been chalked up to a person being eccentric. By pulling my daughter out of school and homeschooling, which decreased her stress levels thereby decreasing her inapporpriate behaviors and combineing Ginko with a natural diet. There are also natural ways to treat anxiety but requires a sympathetic doctor and client compliance.

Do you often congratulate yourself for your witty remarks?

You are half right if you do.

 

[jillio]

Thank you for your concise explanation. ( And since I actually did not realize why, I will point out that I have the ability to laugh at myself) (Or give a tiny giggle)

You are welcome. I assumed your question was sincere. That's why I took the time to answer it.

 

[jillio]

Do you often congratulate yourself for your witty remarks?

You are half right if you do.

I was going to answer the post you replied to, but I think you've already taken care of it. Leave it to say, it was extremely insensitive of the poster when replying to someone who has already shared the fact that she has Asperger's.

 

[Bottesini]

I was going to answer the post you replied to, but I think you've already taken care of it. Leave it to say, it was extremely insensitive of the poster when replying to someone who has already shared the fact that she has Asperger's.

Yeah thanks. Just between me and you, I am crying.

And they are maps of Europe.

 

[jillio]

Yeah thanks. Just between me and you, I am crying.

And they are maps of Europe.

And maps of Europe might just be a handy thing to have at some point in time. On with your collection.

 

[Jiro]

Do you often congratulate yourself for your witty remarks?

You are half right if you do.

I was going to answer the post you replied to, but I think you've already taken care of it. Leave it to say, it was extremely insensitive of the poster when replying to someone who has already shared the fact that she has Asperger's.

Yeah thanks. Just between me and you, I am crying.

And they are maps of Europe.

whoa whoa.... wtf just happened? I thought it was funny when fredfam asked if you collect harry potter maps since you mentioned you collect H.P. books. I think this is the case where his harmless small joke had just gone sour from simple misunderstanding.

Anyway... map collections? Yea that's why I studied geography at college especially GIS. I love maps but a high-tech version. With GIS - I get to plug in information with computer and correlate it with map. I saw this brief scene at RNC last night where they were talking about demography of voters and stuff. They used this big touch-screen display and it had some nifty software that shows you the map of states and it narrows down to county to district to etc.

 

[Bottesini]

whoa whoa.... wtf just happened? I thought it was funny when fredfam asked if you collect harry potter maps since you mentioned you collect H.P. books. I think this is the case where his harmless small joke had just gone sour from simple misunderstanding.

Anyway... map collections? Yea that's why I studied geography at college especially GIS. I love maps but a high-tech version. With GIS - I get to plug in information with computer and correlate it with map. I saw this brief scene at RNC last night where they were talking about demography of voters and stuff. They used this big touch-screen display and it had some nifty software that shows you the map of states and then down to county to district to etc.

I believe Fred was saying I am stupid for a love of kiddie lit. There is no such thing as Potter land. There would only be England or Hogwarts, or the world of Muggles or Magic.

I am however resiliant. Fred was definitly being mean.

Oh and although I know it is boring and I should not tell long tales of my interests, I especially like historic maps of England and Ireland.

 

[jillio]

whoa whoa.... wtf just happened? I thought it was funny when fredfam asked if you collect harry potter maps since you mentioned you collect H.P. books. I think this is the case where his harmless small joke had just gone sour from simple misunderstanding.

Anyway... map collections? Yea that's why I studied geography at college especially GIS. I love maps but a high-tech version. With GIS - I get to plug in information with computer and correlate it with map. I saw this brief scene at RNC last night where they were talking about demography of voters and stuff. They used this big touch-screen display and it had some nifty software that shows you the map of states and it narrows down to county to district to etc.

Perhaps the intent was not to be insensitive. However, to make light of the symptoms of Asperger's, or the behaviors of those that have it, is indeed, insensitive.

 

[jillio]

Yes quite correct. But either one alone was insufficient. And at the time,(1983) the only course of treatment offered me was medication. Because the Therapist and the school board noted that, "Parenting techniques observed were more than adequate". It was up to me as the parent to aquire the skills I needed. I hope that has changed now and more direction and support are ofered parents who may be less aware of alternatives. Behavior mod kept me hopping and accommodatiion and ginko with diet were the pivitol areas that moved her from unmanagble to managable. She went from being totally behind in public school in 4th grade (15th %) to the 75% range overall academically in 9nth grade.

Which means that you were operating on the same principle as the one I have been explaining. You, even though it was in the form of a dietary supplement, medicated your daughter, and you used your own particualr brand of behavior modification techniques. Just as I said....therapy combined with meds when meds are indicated.

 

[Jiro]

I believe Fred was saying I am stupid for a love of kiddie lit. There is no such thing as Potter land. There would only be England or Hogwarts, or the world of Muggles or Magic.

I am however resiliant. Fred was definitly being mean.

oh...... sorry I was not aware of it. I don't know anything about Harry Potter thing.

Oh and although I know it is boring and I should not tell long tales of my interests, I especially like historic maps of England and Ireland.

ah... yea my geo professor has a large collection of it. He's british after all....

One of my favorite is Dr. John Snow's cholera map - 1859.

 

[Bottesini]

oh...... sorry I was not aware of it. I don't know anything about Harry Potter thing.


ah... yea my geo professor has a large collection of it. He's british after all....

One of my favorite is Dr. John Snow's cholera map - 1859.

I love that map. It is a good example of my interest. But I prefer color and great detail.