Anyone Else Feel Like They Have Asperger Syndrome?

[fredfam1]

That was my whole point. It appears that the quote regarding this child presenting with no other symptoms other than a suicide attempt in adolescence came from me, but actually, was fredfam's post. My post stated that GI symptoms were the first symptoms to present in Malabsorption Syndrome, and if this child did not have GI symptoms, then the misdiagnosis came from the naturopath that diagnosed her with this Syndrome.

Glad to see you chimed in here. I was hoping you would add your knowledge to the discussion.[/QUO

Many people can have illnesses and only have one symptom. I was treated for depression by the VA for 5 years untill a VA doctor discovered I had gluten sensitivity. The diet corrected ALL of my apparently unrelated symptoms. I am one of those rare people who test negative on just about everything. The intestinal biopsy and the antibody tests. The doctor told me that tests are not as acurate as we like to think they are. In gluten sensitivities sometimes the only symptom can be soft tooth enamel. Or eczema. And in the young girl I told you about the TPN, (which is a different sort than a medical docter would perscribe) WORKED. She completely recovered. I checked with her mother and the girl. Who is 21 now. (she was 15 when all this began) She is happy, healthy, working, and living on her own. She told me that she can go about 3 months with out the IV supplements before begining to feel symptomatic.

ovided the original work is properly cited.
Top
>Abstract
Background
Methods
Results
Discussion
Conclusion
Competing interests
Authors' contributions
References

Abstract

Background
In recent years there has been increasing recognition that the pattern of presentation of coeliac disease may be changing. The classic sprue syndrome with diarrhoea and weight loss may be less common than the more subtle presentations of coeliac disease such as an isolated iron deficiency anaemia. As a result, the diagnosis of this treatable condition is often delayed or missed. Recent serologic screening tests allow non-invasive screening to identify most patients with the disease and can be applied in patients with even subtle symptoms indicative of coeliac disease. Both benign and malignant complications of coeliac disease can be avoided by early diagnosis and a strict compliance with a gluten free diet.

People do not always present with classic symptoms and some people can be asymptomatic for lots of things. So the fact the child I told you about recovered and continues to do well as long as she maintains her treatment leads me to believe that the ND gave the correct diagnoses.

 

[Bottesini]

Plus, if you believe in anything strongly enough, it can work to alleviate psychological symptoms to some extent.

Not just an opinions.

If you believe celiac causes mental problems and you carefully follow the diet, you are invested in the treatment and it will help you.

 

[fredfam1]

Can you tell me where to find the full text article? So far, the abstract supports many of the things I have been saying, especially the statement regarding ADHD not being universally over diagnosed. I'd be interested in reading the full article.

ADHD among American Schoolchildren

But it is being over perscribed in pockets of areas.

 

[jillio]

ovided the original work is properly cited.
Top
>Abstract
Background
Methods
Results
Discussion
Conclusion
Competing interests
Authors' contributions
References

Abstract

Background
In recent years there has been increasing recognition that the pattern of presentation of coeliac disease may be changing. The classic sprue syndrome with diarrhoea and weight loss may be less common than the more subtle presentations of coeliac disease such as an isolated iron deficiency anaemia. As a result, the diagnosis of this treatable condition is often delayed or missed. Recent serologic screening tests allow non-invasive screening to identify most patients with the disease and can be applied in patients with even subtle symptoms indicative of coeliac disease. Both benign and malignant complications of coeliac disease can be avoided by early diagnosis and a strict compliance with a gluten free diet.

People do not always present with classic symptoms and some people can be asymptomatic for lots of things. So the fact the child I told you about recovered and continues to do well as long as she maintains her treatment leads me to believe that the ND gave the correct diagnoses.

First of all, can you please provide information for obtaining full text versions of the abstracts you keep posting? Abstracts do not give enough information, and are not meant to be used as research support.

Secondly, diarrhea and weight loss are only one set of GI symptoms. There are numerous others.

Thirdly, this abstract refers to glutin sensitiviity, not malabsorption syndrome.

Fourthly, asymptomatic means completely symptom free, not variance in symptoms. If one presents with any symptoms, one is not asymptomatic.

 

[fredfam1]

While people can have a disorder and manifest only one symptom, a person cannot have a disorder so severe as to present with psychiatric disturbance, and be totally asymptomatic for all other symptoms that would identify the disorder.

Why were you eventually tested for gluten sensitivity? And you mentioned "all" of your symptoms. You were, no doubt, exhibiting more than just depressive symptoms. It was a matter of connecting all of your symptoms. Therefore, you were not asymptomatic.

Yet, you claim that this child of which you speak, was completely asymptomatic for all the indicators of malabsorption syndrome except for the psychiatric distubance appearing suddenly in her adolescence. It simply does not add up.

TPN bypasses the intestinal tract. If there are no GI symptoms, there is no indication for TPN. TPN is short for Total Paretental Nutrition. Therefore, it is either total, or it is not TPN. There are not different kinds of TPN.

Rather than put word into this doctors mouth I will ask her to log on to this site and give her explanation. And I disagree about psyciatric symptoms not being possible to be the only visible manefestation of an illness. Which goes back to my whole point about the mental health field in general. I think we will discover that many so called psychiatric illnessess are really nutritional in origin. In addition this girl was 15. We all know that 15 year olds are not always forthcoming with their symptomology. So in all fairness she could have had other symptoms that she only related to her doctor.

 

[fredfam1]

First of all, can you please provide information for obtaining full text versions of the abstracts you keep posting? Abstracts do not give enough information, and are not meant to be used as research support.

Secondly, diarrhea and weight loss are only one set of GI symptoms. There are numerous others.

Thirdly, this abstract refers to glutin sensitiviity, not malabsorption syndrome.

Fourthly, asymptomatic means completely symptom free, not variance in symptoms. If one presents with any symptoms, one is not asymptomatic.

Excuse me and let me clarify. I meant not presenting symptoms that are classic for a particualr illness and I don't know the word for that. Perhaps you do. My other symptoms were SAD, dysthymia, and the only GI ymptoms sI had was bloating and anemia. The test for Gluten sensitivity was negative, the biopsy was negative, but I responded wonderfully to the diet. So the conformation of the diagnoses was based on response to the diet. I only provided the abstracts because I have heard others complain about reading long boring posts and I think the last time I provided a link, you said it didn't work. I will try to check the links from now on before I copy them.

 

[fredfam1]

First of all, can you please provide information for obtaining full text versions of the abstracts you keep posting? Abstracts do not give enough information, and are not meant to be used as research support.

Secondly, diarrhea and weight loss are only one set of GI symptoms. There are numerous others.

Thirdly, this abstract refers to glutin sensitiviity, not malabsorption syndrome.

Fourthly, asymptomatic means completely symptom free, not variance in symptoms. If one presents with any symptoms, one is not asymptomatic.

Malabsorption is secondary to ceoliac. My only malabsorption issue was iron.

 

[jillio]

Rather than put word into this doctors mouth I will ask her to log on to this site and give her explanation. And I disagree about psyciatric symptoms not being possible to be the only visible manefestation of an illness. Which goes back to my whole point about the mental health field in general. I think we will discover that many so called psychiatric illnessess are really nutritional in origin. In addition this girl was 15. We all know that 15 year olds are not always forthcoming with their symptomology. So in all fairness she could have had other symptoms that she only related to her doctor.

Is this a medical physician or a naturopath of which you speak?

And I did not say that psychiatric symptoms could not be the only manifestation of a disease. I said that malabssorption symdrome does not suddenly become manifest and severe enough to create the psychiatric disturbances you describe.

Likewise, one does not suddenly become afflicted with a severe and sudden onset at the age of 15. So the likelihood of her not disclosing her symptoms quite improbable.

Are you aware of the multi axis diagnosis? Axis 3 accounts for any general medical condition that could be producing the psychiatric symptoms observed. You are assuming that medical conditions are not taken into consideration when making a diagnosis of a mental disorder, and that is totally innacurate. Medical conditions are a part of the diagnostic procedure.

 

[jillio]

Plus, if you believe in anything strongly enough, it can work to alleviate psychological symptoms to some extent.

Not just an opinions.

If you believe celiac causes mental problems and you carefully follow the diet, you are invested in the treatment and it will help you.

Absolutely. It is better known as the "placebo effect".

Likewise, fredfam is failing to account for any of the many variables that could be responsible for the remission of symptoms.

 

[jillio]

Malabsorption is secondary to ceoliac. My only malabsorption issue was iron.

Malabsorption can be secondary to any number of etiologies. It can also exist as an independent sydrome.

 

[jillio]

Excuse me and let me clarify. I meant not presenting symptoms that are classic for a particualr illness and I don't know the word for that. Perhaps you do. My other symptoms were SAD, dysthymia, and the only GI ymptoms sI had was bloating and anemia. The test for Gluten sensitivity was negative, the biopsy was negative, but I responded wonderfully to the diet. So the conformation of the diagnoses was based on response to the diet. I only provided the abstracts because I have heard others complain about reading long boring posts and I think the last time I provided a link, you said it didn't work. I will try to check the links from now on before I copy them.

That would be an atypical presentation. And, since there is no way to verify that diet indeed was the reason for the alleviation of symptoms, it is no more than a correlation, and not supportive of cause and effect.

 

[fredfam1]

Is this a medical physician or a naturopath of which you speak?

And I did not say that psychiatric symptoms could not be the only manifestation of a disease. I said that malabssorption symdrome does not suddenly become manifest and severe enough to create the psychiatric disturbances you describe.

Likewise, one does not suddenly become afflicted with a severe and sudden onset at the age of 15. So the likelihood of her not disclosing her symptoms quite improbable.

Are you aware of the multi axis diagnosis? Axis 3 accounts for any general medical condition that could be producing the psychiatric symptoms observed. You are assuming that medical conditions are not taken into consideration when making a diagnosis of a mental disorder, and that is totally innacurate. Medical conditions are a part of the diagnostic procedure.

Not being a fly on the wall I couldn't say. Perhaps she had disclosed other symptoms. But I was and am very close to this family. I never saw any other symptoms. The girl was very emotional with rapid changes in mood, but that could have been due to being 15.

And I am saying medical conditions are often ignored in our culture and climate of "give the insurance and or parents what ever they want and get them out of the office" sort of environment. Just because you are dilligent, Jillio and look at all aspects of a clients helath and well being, ie their social, physical, spiritual well being, doesn't mean every doctor does. This ND that the mom takes her children to and I take my family to is a Natiropathic Doctor. She has medical doctors in our area refering their patients to her to treat hormonal issues they are unable to resolve. She wrote a book called, "The Anti-Inflamatory Diet" by Dr Jessica Black. Based on experiance with her and other medical doctors I would never want to be treated by anyone else. (Exception being my VA doctor) and I know contrary to what you read in the papers, at this hospital in Portland I've always gotten the highest quality care.

 

[fredfam1]

That would be an atypical presentation. And, since there is no way to verify that diet indeed was the reason for the alleviation of symptoms, it is no more than a correlation, and not supportive of cause and effect.

Well it is a correlation that I am very happy to have.

 

[fredfam1]

Absolutely. It is better known as the "placebo effect".

Likewise, fredfam is failing to account for any of the many variables that could be responsible for the remission of symptoms.

I am not failing to account for the variables. But if you see a client go off the prescribed treat and begin to relapse each time, restart treatment see recovery, and each time the same thing happens, you would be foolish not to say that the treatment is efffective.

 

[jillio]

Not being a fly on the wall I couldn't say. Perhaps she had disclosed other symptoms. But I was and am very close to this family. I never saw any other symptoms. The girl was very emotional with rapid changes in mood, but that could have been due to being 15.

And I am saying medical conditions are often ignored in our culture and climate of "give the insurance and or parents what ever they want and get them out of the office" sort of environment. Just because you are dilligent, Jillio and look at all aspects of a clients helath and well being, ie their social, physical, spiritual well being, doesn't mean every doctor does. This ND that the mom takes her children to and I take my family to is a Natiropathic Doctor. She has medical doctors in our area refering their patients to her to treat hormonal issues they are unable to resolve. She wrote a book called, "The Anti-Inflamatory Diet" by Dr Jessica Black. Based on experiance with her and other medical doctors I would never want to be treated by anyone else. (Exception being my VA doctor) and I know contrary to what you read in the papers, at this hospital in Portland I've always gotten the highest quality care.

Anyone who uses a multi axial diagnosis does, and I know of no one who doesn't use a multi axial diagnosis in regard to mental disorders. The multi axial diagnosis is designed to include any possible variable that would account for the presentation of symptoms, and is extremely holistic in nature. And we are, after all, discussing the diagnosis of disorders that fall into the category of mental disorders.

When a physical cause cannot be determined, in that all tests come back normal, no physical disease process can be found for physical symptoms, one must consider the possibility of Somatization Disorder.

 

[jillio]

I am not failing to account for the variables. But if you see a client go off the prescribed treat and begin to relapse each time, restart treatment see recovery, and each time the same thing happens, you would be foolish not to say that the treatment is efffective.

You have still only come up with a correlation. Too many variables are not being accounted for. Correlation and anecdote do not prove cause and effect. Just as likely is a diagnosis of Somatization Disorder, especially when nothing can support the claim of an actual disease process being present in the individual that would explain the presence of the symptoms.

 

[jillio]

Well it is a correlation that I am very happy to have.

And that statement, in and of itself, is indicative of one of the variables that you are not accounting for in your assumption of cause and effect.

 

[hohDougRN]

Following is the Diagnostic Criteria for Avoidant Personality Disorder:

1) avoids occupatioanal activities that have significant interpersonal contact because of fears of criticism, disapproval, or rejection.

(Given that you are a nurse, you obviously don't meet that criterion)

2) is unwilling to get involved with people unless certain of being liked

(I've seen you risk considerable disapproval by honestly stating your opinions on this forum, so you don't meet that criterion)

3) shows restraint within intimate relationshios because of the fear of being shamed or ridiculed

(I'd need more input from you on this one, but have seen nothing from you to date that would indicate that you would meet this criterion, either)

4) is preoccupied with being criticized or rejected in social situations

(Again, you would have to clarify, but the fact that you even started this thread would be an indication that this criterion does not hold true for you)

5) is inhibited in new interpersonal situations because of feelings of inadequacy

(You have given no indication of feelings of inadeqaucy in any situation, so again, I'm going to give this criterion a "no")

6) views self as socially inept, personally unappealing, or inferior to others

(A possible "yes" to the first qaulifier in this criterion)

7) is unusually reluctant to take personal risks ir to engage in new activities because they may prove embarrassing.

(the key here is "unusually" which means more than the normal amount of fear, and the "because". I'm going to give you a "no" on this one, too)

So, you possibly meet one of the criertia for Avoidant Personality Disorder. However, you would need to establish a pervasive pattern, and meet 4 or more of the criteria. So, you can relax. You don't have Avoidant Personality Disorder.:P

There is another "Doug" here who is a nurse? wow I didn't know that

 

[fredfam1]

Somatic illness in psychiatric patients
ERWIN K. KORANYI M.D.1

1 Professor of psychiatry at the University of Ottawa, health sciences faculty, and director of education at the Royal Ottawa Hospital

The author reviews a dozen studies conducted over a period of 40 years and shows that approximately half of a total of over 4,000 psychiatric patients had major medical illnesses. Somatic conditions were directly related to the psychiatric symptoms in 9% to 42% of the cases. Approximately half of the patients' referring physicians had not diagnosed their physical illnesses. These findings and five brief case reports point up the need to follow a medical model on psychiatric services.


Somatic illness in psychiatric patients -- KORANYI 21 (11): 887 -- Psychosomatics

*


Evaluation of patients who present to hospitals or physicians with altered behavior and/or mentation can be time-consuming and difficult and may lead to symptoms being quickly and prematurely dismissed as psychiatric in nature. According to the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders (DSM), the psychiatric presentation of a medical illness is classified as a "mental disorder due to a general medical condition." These disorders are characterized by the presence of mental symptoms that are the direct consequences of an underlying medical condition. Therefore, understanding common psychiatric symptoms and the medical diseases that may cause or mimic them is of utmost importance. Failure to identify these underlying causal medical conditions can be potentially dangerous because serious and frequently reversible conditions can be overlooked. Proper diagnosis of a psychiatric illness necessitates investigation of all appropriate medical causes of the symptoms.

The following features suggest a medical origin to psychiatric symptoms:

* Late onset of initial presentation
* Known underlying medical condition
* Atypical presentation of a specific psychiatric diagnosis
* Absence of personal and family history of psychiatric illnesses
* Illicit substance use
* Medication use
* Treatment resistance or unusual response to treatment
* Sudden onset of mental symptoms
* Abnormal vital signs
* Waxing and waning mental status

So it is possible that sudden onset of psychiatric illness can be caused by medical problems. Though I suspect that this childs nutritional issues were undiagnosed largely due to the fact that the family ate organic meats and whole raw foods, and the family was generally very healthy, so a practicioner in questioning would not consider it to be likely the cause. It just goes to show that not every thing can be quantified or classified.

 

[fredfam1]

And that statement, in and of itself, is indicative of one of the variables that you are not accounting for in your assumption of cause and effect.

Well, the diet works and the "medical" doctor is satisfied with her diagnosis. What more could one ask for. And when blood test values (ferritin) rise in response to an altered diet I consider that to be objective data supporting the diagnosis.