Always the elephant in the room...

[Beach girl]

Hah! I must've bungled that phrase - a play on "it's all french to me," meaning I couldn't hear a word of what my guests were speaking so they might as well have been speaking in french? Sorry for confusing you. :Oops:

Yes, DH is hearing. Our plan is to take classes together, he wants us to wait until I find a job. Being a one income family right now is a drain on our finances, so he works late many nights. I'd like to get my parents to learn as well, but my mom just signed up for Italian classes. I think my parents would rather stay in denial than learn ASL. Love them, but they tend to be snobs.

Any opinions or experiences on in-person classes versus online learning?

Oh, gotcha! Well, the phrase as I've always heard it is "it's all Greek to me." Never heard the "it's all French to me" version! So I was confused. It's all clear now. Must be all Italian to me. ;-) (Just kidding, I actually don't speak much Italian myself.)

Re: classes or on-line, I have no idea. I haven't done either one, don't use ASL. I've worn hearing aids for 30-some years and get along well with those.

However, my husband and I use a bit of what you could call "home signs" in the a.m. before I have my aids in. Mostly things like making a movement of drinking a cup of coffee, with a questioning look, for "do you want coffee?", or he'll pick up the dogs' leashes and indicate he's going out, things like that.

I asked him if he'd be interested in taking ASL classes with me, and he said he would if possible. So, maybe. But so far we haven't.

I looked at the Lifeprint site and tried to mimic the signs, and learned a few things easily, so I think on-line would work for me ok, at least up to a point.

It would be like learning any other language from a book, though. (IMHO.) You could probably get to a certain point, get the vocabulary, the structure, etc., but to really communicate, you have to do that with people. On-line learning or book learning can only take you so far - but those methods might be excellent for laying a foundation.

 

[Abby Nicole]

Yeah, we do that, too - an informal game of charades in the morning when I don't feel like popping in the HAs yet. We fall over laughing sometimes when I guess some off-the-wall interpretation of what he's wildly pantomiming.

The biggest motivating factor in learning ASL is my concern of being a good mother, I'd like to start our family soon. I cannot, for the life of me, hear children's higher pitched voices.

Thinking maybe we'll dip our toes in ASL lessons online for now, so we're somewhat oriented when we take in-person classes?

 

[CSign]

Yeah, we do that, too - an informal game of charades in the morning when I don't feel like popping in the HAs yet. We fall over laughing sometimes when I guess some off-the-wall interpretation of what he's wildly pantomiming.

The biggest motivating factor in learning ASL is my concern of being a good mother, I'd like to start our family soon. I cannot, for the life of me, hear children's higher pitched voices.

Thinking maybe we'll dip our toes in ASL lessons online for now, so we're somewhat oriented when we take in-person classes?

Good luck to you Abby! I think it would be great for you to start learning ASL along with your husband. It's probably a good idea to "get your feet wet" with online signing websites, and when you can take a class. In person is really the best way to learn, but starting to familiarize yourself with signing beforehand would be of benefit to you.

Maybe you could get your family to come take a class with you too? Congratulations on your marriage

Enjoy reading and posting here.

 

[CSign]

P.S. Signing with your children will also be of tremendous benefit not just for you, but your future children too.

 

[jillio]

I agree, and I do wonder from time to time if perhaps my parents would've chosen a different path had the world wide web been available in 1980. To this day, I don't know if they researched and made an informed decision or simply followed one so-called expert's advice.

Chances are very great that they did not have all of the information they needed to make a fully informed choice. That is a common occurance.

I don't know. Some people pay attention to the information, some don't. There is still enough audism out there that there are those who ignore the information and do what they are most comfortable with as hearing parents rather that doing that which addresses the deaf child's needs. I find that incredibly sad. And, from your story, and that of most others, so does the deaf child when they get old enough to understand.

 

[jillio]

Yeah, we do that, too - an informal game of charades in the morning when I don't feel like popping in the HAs yet. We fall over laughing sometimes when I guess some off-the-wall interpretation of what he's wildly pantomiming.

The biggest motivating factor in learning ASL is my concern of being a good mother, I'd like to start our family soon. I cannot, for the life of me, hear children's higher pitched voices.

Thinking maybe we'll dip our toes in ASL lessons online for now, so we're somewhat oriented when we take in-person classes?

Nothing at all wrong with getting a bit of a foundation online. It will ease your anxiety of face to face use.

 

[deafskeptic]

I agree, and I do wonder from time to time if perhaps my parents would've chosen a different path had the world wide web been available in 1980. To this day, I don't know if they researched and made an informed decision or simply followed one so-called expert's advice.

I doubt it if the hearing parents on this site are any examples. :P Any way welcome to AD.

 

[deafskeptic]

I doubt it if the hearing parents on this site are any examples. :P Any way welcome to AD.

Let me rephrase that to the majority of the hearing parents.

 

[CSign]

Let me rephrase that to the majority of the hearing parents.

I realize that's what people may think, but do we have any cold hard facts about how many parents choose to sign with their children as opposed to those who go the Oral route?

I wonder if the gap is as large as people think...

 

[Abby Nicole]

Chances are very great that they did not have all of the information they needed to make a fully informed choice. That is a common occurance.

I don't know. Some people pay attention to the information, some don't. There is still enough audism out there that there are those who ignore the information and do what they are most comfortable with as hearing parents rather that doing that which addresses the deaf child's needs. I find that incredibly sad. And, from your story, and that of most others, so does the deaf child when they get old enough to understand.

Speculating on their thought process is all I can do, as my parents get tight-lipped and emotional if I ask them out of curiosity. I have a theory on my family, however. My grandparents immigrated (or emigrated?) to Detroit in the 30s/40s, and for the Italians, it was considered a source of pride and sign of success to learn English and assimilate fully into American culture. So perhaps pushing audism on me was repeating the family's pathology of pro-assimilation - on top of the usual audism propaganda?

Getting really deep here for a Saturday afternoon, hah! Anyways, I've really enjoyed meeting all of you - this has been an eye-opening experience.

 

[jillio]

I realize that's what people may think, but do we have any cold hard facts about how many parents choose to sign with their children as opposed to those who go the Oral route?

I wonder if the gap is as large as people think...

Yep. We have plenty of cold hard facts regarding the choices parents here have made, through their own admissions. Add to that the reports from the deaf individuals here regarding the environment they were raised and educated in, and we have all the information we need to make the observation DS made.

 

[deafskeptic]

Yep. We have plenty of cold hard facts regarding the choices parents here have made, through their own admissions. Add to that the reports from the deaf individuals here regarding the environment they were raised and educated in, and we have all the information we need to make the observation DS made.

Exactly.

 

[jillio]

Speculating on their thought process is all I can do, as my parents get tight-lipped and emotional if I ask them out of curiosity. I have a theory on my family, however. My grandparents immigrated (or emigrated?) to Detroit in the 30s/40s, and for the Italians, it was considered a source of pride and sign of success to learn English and assimilate fully into American culture. So perhaps pushing audism on me was repeating the family's pathology of pro-assimilation - on top of the usual audism propaganda?

Getting really deep here for a Saturday afternoon, hah! Anyways, I've really enjoyed meeting all of you - this has been an eye-opening experience.

Cultural attitudes most definately had an impact on your parents' thinking and decision making. Very insightful of you to realize that.

Most parents will get tight lipped when questioned about these things. Generally, it is because they feel (mistakenly) that they are being judged and criticized, or it is somehow implying that they did not love their child. It prevents the open kind of communication, however, that could have a huge impact in reducing audism. Parents really, truly need to get over their reactional defensiveness.

 

[DeafCaroline]

Hah! I must've bungled that phrase - a play on "it's all french to me," meaning I couldn't hear a word of what my guests were speaking so they might as well have been speaking in french? Sorry for confusing you. :Oops:

Yes, DH is hearing. Our plan is to take classes together, he wants us to wait until I find a job. Being a one income family right now is a drain on our finances, so he works late many nights. I'd like to get my parents to learn as well, but my mom just signed up for Italian classes. I think my parents would rather stay in denial than learn ASL. Love them, but they tend to be snobs.

Any opinions or experiences on in-person classes versus online learning?

Hi Abbie, like you I grew up oral and mainstreamed and was considered the spokesmodel for oralism in my town - was often paraded out. Academically I did well...but grew up very lonely and angry. It's a different story now, I've put the past behind me and am now a much happier person.

And now I'm learning ASL and have to say that the real life classes are far more beneficial and educational than online courses. You learn much more in the classroom and the real world interaction of signing with others is a huge benefit. I hope you and DH will take a class!

Welcome to AD.

 

[Abby Nicole]

Cultural attitudes most definately had an impact on your parents' thinking and decision making. Very insightful of you to realize that.

Most parents will get tight lipped when questioned about these things. Generally, it is because they feel (mistakenly) that they are being judged and criticized, or it is somehow implying that they did not love their child. It prevents the open kind of communication, however, that could have a huge impact in reducing audism. Parents really, truly need to get over their reactional defensiveness.

Even beyond the hearing parents-deaf child dynamic, the impact on hearing siblings must be considered as well. My older sister, well, that's a whole other can of worms. Her feelings towards our upbringing wavers between fierce protectionism for me or bitter resentment towards me. My sister was a helpless bystander, and carries a heavy grudge. She moved far away, and regularly sees a therapist for emotional anxiety and inability to maintain relationships. My heart breaks for her.

 

[Jazzberry]

Even beyond the hearing parents-deaf child dynamic, the impact on hearing siblings must be considered as well. My older sister, well, that's a whole other can of worms. Her feelings towards our upbringing wavers between fierce protectionism for me or bitter resentment towards me. My sister was a helpless bystander, and carries a heavy grudge. She moved far away, and regularly sees a therapist for emotional anxiety and inability to maintain relationships. My heart breaks for her.

Good point. AFAICT, my brother and sister also have difficulties trusting people. They both have/had trouble (one did, one still does) establishing long term intimate relationships.

Also, AFAICT, this has not been an issue for my cousins. None of my cousins have HH siblings and our parents seem to be similar in many ways. So I do chalk this up to the side effects of forcing an oral only approach on HH children who have a significant loss.

 

[Abby Nicole]

Hi Abbie, like you I grew up oral and mainstreamed and was considered the spokesmodel for oralism in my town - was often paraded out. Academically I did well...but grew up very lonely and angry. It's a different story now, I've put the past behind me and am now a much happier person.

And now I'm learning ASL and have to say that the real life classes are far more beneficial and educational than online courses. You learn much more in the classroom and the real world interaction of signing with others is a huge benefit. I hope you and DH will take a class!

Welcome to AD.

You and I are two peas in a pod. Did you feel self-conscious and silly when people paraded you around? I used to think, "Sheesh, so I got straight A's, so did half of the class??? No need to shout it from the mountaintops."

Too funny on being the spokesperson! In middle school, I was asked to speak with hearing parents to answer questions about what oral life would be like for their deaf babies. So proud of myself, I was, I bragged about how normal I was and told all sorts of polly anna-ish stories (lies), ugh. Who knows what kind of impact I had on those parent's decisions - their poor kids. *shudders*

 

[CSign]

You and I are two peas in a pod. Did you feel self-conscious and silly when people paraded you around? I used to think, "Sheesh, so I got straight A's, so did half of the class??? No need to shout it from the mountaintops."

Too funny on being the spokesperson! In middle school, I was asked to speak with hearing parents to answer questions about what oral life would be like for their deaf babies. So proud of myself, I was, I bragged about how normal I was and told all sorts of polly anna-ish stories (lies), ugh. Who knows what kind of impact I had on those parent's decisions - their poor kids. *shudders*

you were a product of your circumstances. At least now you can move forward making choices that feel right for you. It's obviously not your fault that you were placed in an Oral environment. The past is the past, and you have control of your destiny. Don't beat yourself up about it.

 

[jillio]

Even beyond the hearing parents-deaf child dynamic, the impact on hearing siblings must be considered as well. My older sister, well, that's a whole other can of worms. Her feelings towards our upbringing wavers between fierce protectionism for me or bitter resentment towards me. My sister was a helpless bystander, and carries a heavy grudge. She moved far away, and regularly sees a therapist for emotional anxiety and inability to maintain relationships. My heart breaks for her.

Oh, absolutely true. The impact on siblings cannot be discounted. I applaud your sister for taking time out to try and sort through the issues. With help, I have no doubt that she will come to understand that she neither needs to protect you or resent you.

 

[jillio]

Good point. AFAICT, my brother and sister also have difficulties trusting people. They both have/had trouble (one did, one still does) establishing long term intimate relationships.

Also, AFAICT, this has not been an issue for my cousins. None of my cousins have HH siblings and our parents seem to be similar in many ways. So I do chalk this up to the side effects of forcing an oral only approach on HH children who have a significant loss.

You see, the message that is communicated to the deaf/hoh child is picked up by the hearing sibs as well. They also learn that who they are is just not quite good enough, and to carry a false front to protect themselves.