Alternatives to Animal testing.

dreama said:
I recently found out about one of the drugs I used to take for epilepsy. It causes cancer in rats. I've taken about 30 of those tablets all at once (I was suicidal at the time). I still don't have cancer.
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I just want to point out that cancer is not formed from overnight thing like you swallowed those 30 tablets unless you have been exposed to dangerously-high dosage of radiation. Cancer is usually formed from long-term exposure - usually several years. You may or may not develop cancer if you were taking those tablets for several years. Who knows? :dunno:
 
Jiro said:
I just want to point out that cancer is not formed from overnight thing like you swallowed those 30 tablets unless you have been exposed to dangerously-high dosage of radiation. Cancer is usually formed from long-term exposure - usually several years. You may or may not develop cancer if you were taking those tablets for several years. Who knows? :dunno:
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Exactly. When testing is done, it is done to test for effects over time. That is why it takes so long to get a drug to market. It is tested for safety with recommended therapeutic doses over an extended period of time. And even if they see no side effects after 5 years, or 10 years, side effects may still appear after a cummulative exposure of 15 years.
 
jillio said:
A Vegan saying they can eat all the chocolate that they want and still be healthy? With all of that saturated fat and refined sugar? Are you really a Vegan? You've been joshing us, haven't you? And what's up with giving your dog chocolate? Are you testing chocolate on your dog? Shame on you, Dreama.

Give it to Mikey. He won't eat it. He hates everything. (That one was for you, Babyblue!):giggle:
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Doesn't chocolate contains milk?

Gee thanks jillo :lol:
 
Jiro said:
I just want to point out that cancer is not formed from overnight thing like you swallowed those 30 tablets unless you have been exposed to dangerously-high dosage of radiation. Cancer is usually formed from long-term exposure - usually several years. You may or may not develop cancer if you were taking those tablets for several years. Who knows? :dunno:
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This is true. When my mother developed pancreatic cancer, her oncologist said that it had slowly developed for years until it finally reached the point where it completely invaded her pancreas and liver. She didn't have any symptoms until the cancer plagued 95% of her body.
 
I was just using chocolate as an example. By the way you can get vegan chocolate. Some brands of dark chocolate are vegan.

Of course I would never give Jilli chocolate. But they do give dogs things that are bad for them in laboritories. It is part of research.

Another example: My rat has cancer. I am told by the vet just to make her comfortable until it's time to let go.

They have been experimenting on rats for over 30 years to find cures for cancer. So if their is no cure for rats by testing rats how do they expect to find cures for humans by testing rats.
 
dreama said:
I was just using chocolate as an example. By the way you can get vegan chocolate. Some brands of dark chocolate are vegan.

Of course I would never give Jilli chocolate. But they do give dogs things that are bad for them in laboritories. It is part of research.

Another example: My rat has cancer. I am told by the vet just to make her comfortable until it's time to let go.

They have been experimenting on rats for over 30 years to find cures for cancer. So if their is no cure for rats by testing rats how do they expect to find cures for humans by testing rats.
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So you want them to test humans? Is that what you're saying?

I STILL don't understand why you think that your mother would still be alive if it weren't for animal testing. I can sort of see why you think animal testing doesn't work, but how the HECK does animal testing get in the way of finding real cures? You haven't clarified this.
 
dreama said:
I was just using chocolate as an example. By the way you can get vegan chocolate. Some brands of dark chocolate are vegan.

Of course I would never give Jilli chocolate. But they do give dogs things that are bad for them in laboritories. It is part of research.

Another example: My rat has cancer. I am told by the vet just to make her comfortable until it's time to let go.

They have been experimenting on rats for over 30 years to find cures for cancer. So if their is no cure for rats by testing rats how do they expect to find cures for humans by testing rats.
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Let me get this straight... your rat has cancer and you're gonna take the vet's advice and let the cancer give your rat a long, slow, painful death? I'm sure the rat is thinking, "why don't you put me out of my misery?" Think about it; the rat has cancer. The cancer will kill it. It is suffering! Put the rat out of its misery! Take it outside, get a gun, and blow its brains out. Your pet rat will greatly appreciate it.
 
David said:
Let me get this straight... your rat has cancer and you're gonna take the vet's advice and let the cancer give your rat a long, slow, painful death? I'm sure the rat is thinking, "why don't you put me out of my misery?" Think about it; the rat has cancer. The cancer will kill it. It is suffering! Put the rat out of its misery! Take it outside, get a gun, and blow its brains out. Your pet rat will greatly appreciate it.
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You can also take a hammer to it's head. But, it would be much kinder than letting it suffer.
 
Daredevel7 said:
So you want them to test humans? Is that what you're saying?

I STILL don't understand why you think that your mother would still be alive if it weren't for animal testing. I can sort of see why you think animal testing doesn't work, but how the HECK does animal testing get in the way of finding real cures? You haven't clarified this.
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i'm also curious about this.
 
Hear Again said:
Something can kill your dog and you'd be okay with that? I certainly wouldn't. If anything happened to Tigger because of something poisonous she accidentally ate, I don't know what I'd do, but I do know it would devastate me.
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If something happened to Jilli it would devistate me too. That is why I find it so upsetting that such things happen all the time in Laboritories to Jilli's less fortunate relatives. Yet so many people are ok about it.
 
Daredevel7 said:
So you want them to test humans? Is that what you're saying?

I STILL don't understand why you think that your mother would still be alive if it weren't for animal testing. I can sort of see why you think animal testing doesn't work, but how the HECK does animal testing get in the way of finding real cures? You haven't clarified this.
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Because animals and humans don't react the same way.

We DO already test on humnans eventually. I just want to remove the animal componant in research so that we go straight from computer modelling and human stem cell research to microbiotic dosing in concenting human volunteers.

They have so many new methods on the market that animal testing has become very much unncessary.

I'm sorry if my explaining is unclear. That's why I provided the links because some people who are Doctors and scientists can explain about these things better then I can.

I read an article after mother died that said that big cancer buisnesses don't even want to cure cancer. It was just after mother died and it made me really mad.
 
David said:
Let me get this straight... your rat has cancer and you're gonna take the vet's advice and let the cancer give your rat a long, slow, painful death? I'm sure the rat is thinking, "why don't you put me out of my misery?" Think about it; the rat has cancer. The cancer will kill it. It is suffering! Put the rat out of its misery! Take it outside, get a gun, and blow its brains out. Your pet rat will greatly appreciate it.
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Mia, my rat, has just had another check up with the vet. Believe me the vet will tell me when the rat has had enough. Right now she's still enjoying life, doing the usual ratty things.

When my mum was dying of cancer she still had an interest in life, so no I won't be killing her until my vet and I feel it is neccessary. And believe me they are very quick to tell you when they think your animal is suffering. Or even sometimes when they aren't.

I have Euthanised animals in the past. My first guide dog Bruce was Euthanised and several of my rats. Including Mia's sister. But I don't believe in doing it before it's time.

And no I wouldn't shoot them. I take them to the vet and ask the vet to give them an anesthetic to knock them out first and only kill the rat with injection after the rat is unconcious. When Bruce (my ex guide dog) had to be euthanised I was with him the whole time.
 
sorry but i'm not a fan of rat. i prefer ferret but ferret eats rat so.... :dunno:
 
dreama said:
Because animals and humans don't react the same way.

We DO already test on humnans eventually. I just want to remove the animal componant in research so that we go straight from computer modelling and human stem cell research to microbiotic dosing in concenting human volunteers.

They have so many new methods on the market that animal testing has become very much unncessary.

I'm sorry if my explaining is unclear. That's why I provided the links because some people who are Doctors and scientists can explain about these things better then I can.

I read an article after mother died that said that big cancer buisnesses don't even want to cure cancer. It was just after mother died and it made me really mad.
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dreama,

in what way are humans being tested nowadays? human testing is unethical and invites all kinds of problems when it comes to legalities.

where do you get the idea that cancer companies don't want to cure cancer? i'd like some data to support that claim.
 
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